Anglo Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) My BASC membership is up for renewal, its expensive and I'm not impressed with the legal/political representation a member gets for his money these days. To clarify, the two areas I'm most disappointed with are as follows: 1/ GP reports for certificate applications and renewals. I'm not opposed to this idea in principle although i think the original implementation was a bodge. What I am opposed to is that certain constabularies have made this mandatory, against home office guidance and as far as I can tell without legal authority to do so. Our elected representatives in parliament have not seen fit to update the law, there is no legal requirement, but some of us are living under pseudo-law created by our so called public servants. So what does the BASC do with this situation... Its says it 'strongly opposes' then simply provides an avenue around the problem by putting members in touch with a friendly doctor, which is very helpful to the individual member but also sets precedent for us all, as though we accept the whole situation. I think too often we indulge the whims and fantasies of chief constables, rather than demand that they enforce the law as written, equally for all, no more no less. If Wild Justice can challenge the legality of general licences, why can't the very well funded BASC challenge public authorities for not following the laws & guidance they themselves are supposed to implement. If they had done so years ago, perhaps we wouldn't be in a situation where shooters up & down the land have to live under all sorts of pseudo-law relating to good reason, choice of gun, ammo, variations, land deemed suitable etc. And I've not even gone into the unreasonable costs of all this! We are always in retreat when it comes to regulation surrounding shooting, rather than holding authority to account. 2/ The lead shot fiasco. I would have been for us all moving away from plastic wads, its ecologically sound, its technically feasible, many of us do this anyway, we could have done it ASAP and chalked it up as win! Trying to ban plastic & lead at the same time, when as far as i can tell there is no real political pressure in the UK to do so, seems utterly moronic. The pressure on us is about bloodshed, it about the furry foxie woxies etc, not about the lead we use. Those are my opinions, they are unlikely to change. I'm not after a debate on these two issues. I just thought I'd answer the question before someone asks why. What i want to know is, if a man feels strongly about these things, would he be better off becoming a member of a different shooting organisation which is more aligned with his views? And if so which one? The criteria is: Good insurance, good advice and a little help with certificates should the worst happen. Edited April 15, 2020 by Anglo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 unhappy with shooting organisations I am now with sacs purely for the insurance hopefully things will at some point change for the better in shooting organisations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 Good luck with that one ,many expect too much ,they are only human ,obviously no one else stands out hence the question ? Police forces have always pushed the boundaries and we all should have stopped using lead and plastic years ago ,Basc havent all the answers neither has anyone else.unless anyone can advise me different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo Posted April 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) . Edited April 15, 2020 by Anglo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 You have just blown your chance of being taken seriously. Very poor taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo Posted April 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, holloway said: Good luck with that one ,many expect too much ,they are only human ,obviously no one else stands out hence the question ? Police forces have always pushed the boundaries and we all should have stopped using lead and plastic years ago ,Basc havent all the answers neither has anyone else.unless anyone can advise me different. I don't expect perfection, just not so many own goals. Like i said good insurance, good advice and a little help on certificates should the worst happen. I can do without the politics for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 Been a member since WAGBI and they have served me well. They also have an excellent President in Lord Deer, he will not stand any messing about. My ex Boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo Posted April 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 24 minutes ago, Gordon R said: You have just blown your chance of being taken seriously. Very poor taste. You are correct, its lads banter and out of place on a thread about a serious subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 CPSA. They didn't sign up to this lead shot BASC initiated nonsense AND cover for all shooting activities including live quarry shooting and, yes, even stalking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo Posted April 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, enfieldspares said: CPSA. They didn't sign up to this lead shot BASC initiated nonsense AND cover for all shooting activities including live quarry shooting and, yes, even stalking. You know what, I never considered them because of 'Clay' in the title. Good shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako7mm Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 Scottish Gamekeepers Association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo Posted April 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sako7mm said: Scottish Gamekeepers Association. That's two recommendations for Scottish organisations. Is there a trend of Scottish organisations behaving in a different manor? Edited April 15, 2020 by Anglo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako7mm Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 I understand that the SGA have taken a more robust view of the lead issue. I think you'll be impressed with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo Posted April 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Sako7mm said: I understand that the SGA have taken a more robust view of the lead issue. I think you'll be impressed with them. Robust is a excellent word for what I'm after. I've just read their statement, I like it, but I do wonder what they mean by That said, if quantitative and comparative science on lead in foodstuffs comes forward to suggest real dangers to eating products containing traces of lead then, of course, due diligence must be heeded.' My view is simply that where lead is likely to be found, it should be adequately labelled, which as far as I'm aware it already is. There are many other potentially harmful foods & drinks in the supermarket, alcoholic beverages for instance. I can't see how we as a nation could be more diligent than we already being, without creating a contradiction. Edited April 15, 2020 by Anglo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: You have just blown your chance of being taken seriously. Very poor taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo Posted April 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 43 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: CPSA. They didn't sign up to this lead shot BASC initiated nonsense AND cover for all shooting activities including live quarry shooting and, yes, even stalking. Quote: The main game-shooting organisations in the UK (BASC, CA, CLA, GWCT, NGO, BGA, and MA) have today released a statement encouraging a voluntary move away from lead shot and single use plastics for game shooting with shotguns. The transition will happen gradually over the next five years. This decision is being taken due to recent legislation discussions in Europe that would see lead banned from consumer products, including game meat. Some UK supermarkets are already refusing to accept game that has been shot with lead, and the European market also buys a large proportion of UK game. We at the CPSA have been involved in the discussions with the game-shooting organisations and whilst we understand their decision to voluntarily remove lead from their sport, this will have no effect on clay-target shooting. The way I read that is, It's not that they didn't sign up to it because they didn't agree with it, its because they didn't feel threatened by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) None of the organisations can do anything regarding lead shot and apart from strongly worded letters, will they do anything regarding GP’s letters, and the one who will help you least of all if you’re a game shooter, is the CPSA; they deal in clay target shooting only, not live quarry shooting, but will be more than happy to take your money if you so wish. You can get insurance much cheaper if it’s insurance only, you want, but what you are seeking doesn’t exist unfortunately. Edited April 16, 2020 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 I'm sure I remember @Perazzishotmentioning something about a new organisation when the whole lead thing was announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said: I'm sure I remember @Perazzishotmentioning something about a new organisation when the whole lead thing was announced. Yes something was stirring, but I guess it is all on hold at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Yes something was stirring, but I guess it is all on hold at the moment. Yeah most probably, hopefully he might share a bit more of what he does know. With everything that's happened in the last 12 months a new org could do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said: Yeah most probably, hopefully he might share a bit more of what he does know. With everything that's happened in the last 12 months a new org could do well. Indeed it could! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Indeed it could! And if nothing else a bit of healthy competition wouldn't do any harm either, here's to hoping 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) Just get the insurance from the country cover club, same insurance without the bull and marketing and you'll be sure that they won't suggest any further encroachment on your freedoms as some form of appeasement. They'll also fight any knee jerk legislation just as successfully. It won't cover you for humane dispatch by the roadside, but that's a bit specialist and isn't covered by the insurance offered by basc anyway. Edited April 16, 2020 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Farmboy91 said: Yeah most probably, hopefully he might share a bit more of what he does know. With everything that's happened in the last 12 months a new org could do well. A new org’ may do well at attracting disgruntled members from another org’, but I fail to see how it could be anymore effective ( for want of a better word ) than any of the existing org’s. One minute some are shouting out for our org’s to join up, next some are claiming we need another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Scully said: A new org’ may do well at attracting disgruntled members from another org’, but I fail to see how it could be anymore effective ( for want of a better word ) than any of the existing org’s. One minute some are shouting out for our org’s to join up, next some are claiming we need another! I don't think it hurts to ever have another option, + a fresh perspective on things can't be bad either? No harm in being optimistic 😊👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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