High rib guns and sight pictures

[Cosmicblue]

Owning a couple of high(ish) rib guns (HPX Perazzi DSR and a Blaser F3 Vantage) I find it curious when fellow shooters seek to try a dry-mount and immediately say 'I couldn't shoot that' because there is a desire to get the head so low on the stock as to the foresight bead and nothing else.   This is, after all, how perhaps most of us learn to shoot?

It occurs to me that perhaps it isn't commonly known that high rib guns are intended to keep the shooters eye above the rib so as to have a better view of the target and that trying to get something with a higher rib to fit like a normal gun isn't going to work?

[Smokersmith]

By 'high rib guns'  … do you mean raised rib?

I know many raised rib guns that shoot flat, and many flat rib guns that shoot high … so I'm not 100% sure what your point is.

I believe the advantages of a raised rib gun are claimed to be more about a better, more upright head position, and the improvement in peripheral vision created by the rib.

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Smokersmith
Added more

[Cosmicblue]

Thanks, 'Raised Rib', is probably a more apt description - and the Vantage appears to shoot flat.

To your description "I believe the advantages of a raised rib gun are claimed to be more about a better, more upright head position, and the improvement in peripheral vision created by the rib."  I guess I'm a little puzzled - one often sees raised-rib guns for sale, often with little use (the Vantage being a good example) and I wonder if it's because some shooters don't 'get' the principle behind it that you have described better than I? 

 

 

[London Best]

As a total SxS shooter I was once allowed to mount someone’s gun which had a rib like the Forth road bridge. I expected it to feel queer, but it came up beautifully with a perfect fit for me.

[Mr.C]

That's why I bought my CG Impact, came to my shoulder better than anything I had tried and felt "right". It was 2nd hand and previous owner had perhaps put a slab through it. 

[Smokersmith]

I think people often change guns as they think it will make them better shots.

This is rarely the case.

[grrclark]

4 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

I think people often change guns as they think it will make them better shots.

This is rarely the case.

It is something that the gun trade are of course happy to encourage.  Much the same as in golf where every new club is more forgiving and hits it longer, or every new cartridge seems to hit harder even further out, etc.

I find it funny to see some people chop and change and chaff around with variable stocks, swapping butt pads, etc looking for that bit of magic.

Everyone wants that quick fix.

[WalkedUp]

A variable stock doesn’t mean you adjust it, set it once not incessantly means you can have it fitted to you without losing value for being fitted so someone else. Especially for a high comb. Of course if your gun is for life then you need not worry and can have it fitted to your idiosyncrasies. My stock’s adjustments for LOP and comb height drastically changed my averages. I had my first gun ‘fitted’ by the gunsmith who sold it to me. I was naive and it was appalling but I shot it for best part of a decade. My next gun was a gift given to me blind by my good friend and financed by my wife, so a lovely gun but unfitted. I shot for a couple of seasons and then adjusted its LOP with offcuts of wood to fit and it was much better. I borrowed a friends Semi auto for pigeons, it had an adjustable comb that I set to my comfort and it was great. I adjusted my comb height by shims of cardboard under a tape wrap, gave it 2 years and loved it so finally had the stock adjusted. When I mount and open my eyes now I’m always on the bead, every time naturally, I used to have to fight to find it and bruise my cheek. I’ve had a steady hand at the tiller, only two guns in my time, but by a careful, slow and iterative process have got to a stage I’m very happy with my gun fit. I know eventually I’ll have a gun stock made to measure but for the next 20 years I am more than happy with what I have. My only regret is not going to a proper fitter before ever buying a gun. I was used to rifles and could shoot anything without much fuss. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by WalkedUp

[FreshFace]

7 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

 I find it curious when fellow shooters seek to try a dry-mount and immediately say 'I couldn't shoot that' because there is a desire to get the head so low on the stock as to the foresight bead and nothing else.   

That made me chuckle, I also have a HPX / DSR and have lost track of the amount times I’ve heard that. Then they actually shoot it and are generally surprised.

 

 

[Rob85]

Was always curious about the gun fit thing as regards comb height and how much rib you should see with the bead. If I mount my o/u calmly and comfortably (as I know it) i get to see a little rib and my bead just fine. But I can ram my cheek down that bit further to the point someone could say that the guns way too low for me.

How hard should your cheek be down on the comb really?

[Westward]

17 hours ago, Rob85 said:

Was always curious about the gun fit thing as regards comb height and how much rib you should see with the bead. If I mount my o/u calmly and comfortably (as I know it) i get to see a little rib and my bead just fine. But I can ram my cheek down that bit further to the point someone could say that the guns way too low for me.

How hard should your cheek be down on the comb really?

If shotguns were meant to be mounted like rifles with only the bead showing, the makers would surely fit a rear notch sight or similar. The point of having 2 beads is to find a starting point for gunfit and gun mount by stacking the beads in a figure 8. Inevitably, this would also mean seeing some rib, but since the idea of shotgun shooting is to point the thing as you would with a finger, having the eye just above the rib helps. A lower mounted gun also helps to minimise the problem of the non dominant eye taking over the lead. 

I can't think of a single good standard clay shooter who shoots a dead flat gun or one who rams their cheek down hard on the comb. Most seem to have very light contact between the cheek and the comb and sometimes no contact at all.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

What an absolutely fascinating little thread!

[Scully]

I once preferred a very flat sight plain, and struggled to do well at sporting with trap guns. After buying a couple of trap guns primarily because I really liked them, but having no desire to shoot trap, I use them for sporting ( after trying them out on a pattern plate to see exactly where they printed ) with much success and enjoyment, and I now find the sight picture much more preferable, so much so that on two recent decoying trips with my flat shooting auto, I really struggled. Am going to have to alter the stock or strap on a comb raiser! 

[Taileron]

On 29/06/2020 at 16:51, Mr.C said:

That's why I bought my CG Impact, came to my shoulder better than anything I had tried and felt "right". It was 2nd hand and previous owner had perhaps put a slab through it. 

Same here. I happened upon a CG Invictus 3 ascent a while back and it just came up into my shoulder lovely. Couldn’t afford that, so tried a Fabarm Axis RS12 which I could afford and is now in my cabinet.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Taileron

[London Best]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

I once preferred a very flat sight plain, and struggled to do well at sporting with trap guns. After buying a couple of trap guns primarily because I really liked them, but having no desire to shoot trap, I use them for sporting ( after trying them out on a pattern plate to see exactly where they printed ) with much success and enjoyment, and I now find the sight picture much more preferable, so much so that on two recent decoying trips with my flat shooting auto, I really struggled. Am going to have to alter the stock or strap on a comb raiser! 

Just keep your tongue firmly in your cheek, Scully, and the old auto will work just fine!

[Cosmicblue]

4 hours ago, Westward said:

If shotguns were meant to be mounted like rifles with only the bead showing, the makers would surely fit a rear notch sight or similar. The point of having 2 beads is to find a starting point for gunfit and gun mount by stacking the beads in a figure 8. Inevitably, this would also mean seeing some rib, but since the idea of shotgun shooting is to point the thing as you would with a finger, having the eye just above the rib helps. A lower mounted gun also helps to minimise the problem of the non dominant eye taking over the lead. 

I can't think of a single good standard clay shooter who shoots a dead flat gun or one who rams their cheek down hard on the comb. Most seem to have very light contact between the cheek and the comb and sometimes no contact at all.

My DSR Perazzi has no mid bead, however the Blaser Vantage does and whilst I don't look at either when shooting it serves as a useful indicator when checking gun fit in a 'dry mount'.

To the point about the amount of pressure of one's cheek on the comb - being light here is surely a pre-cursor to a 'slap in the chops' when you pull the trigger?   I'm sure we have all done it at some point and lifted our heads up at precisely the wrong moment....