.22 - V - 17HMR

[Centrepin]

40 minutes ago, Scully said:

Good for you;  a good honest answer. 
Whilst it is preferable and laudable to ensure a clean kill, sometimes you just need to get the job done. 

Totally agree, little difference between rats and foxes, both are vermin and you can eat neither 

[Walker570]

17hmr  ...22RF   we are talking two very different animals here. I own both and they get used in different situations.  The 17hmr is far les likely to rico.... not impossible...but less likely so that rifle is used in those situations and where shots may vary from a couple of yards from the moderator to 200yrds at the other end of the ride.  The 22 RF is my keenie meenie rifle where i want zero noise at reasonable ranges anything over 50yrds and the 17hmr would come into play, I sometimes have both with me in the Landie or blind.  Think about how and where you will want to use the rifle/calibre.  There is little doubt that the 17hmr is a surgical instrument and 9 out of 10 if you hit a tree rat with it you will discover bits and pieces of the bullet inside although it can almost chop them in half.  You can never say never with any rifle and should ALWAYS  ensure a safe backstop because once that bullet leaves the muzzle it is it's own free agent.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Walker570

[London Best]

There will be a snowflake along in a minute!

[Gerry78]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

I’ll tell you the story.

I had taken a youngster for a lamping session. We were driving back across fields with his eleven rabbits when the lamp lit up two foxes about 200 yards away. I squeaked, one bolted and the other ran towards us. No shot was possible because we were looking at it through the Land Rover windscreen. The fox circled clockwise so I poked the .22 out of the drivers window and closed the bolt. The fox heard the bolt close and bolted flat out. It was crossing to my right when I fired and missed, but, as often happens in the lamp, I saw the bullet go and strike low and behind. I worked the bolt, aimed about a foot higher and led him about another two feet and killed it stone dead with a bullet through the shoulder. The teenager thought I was John Wayne. We paced it at 160. Very unlucky fox.

 

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Taught the youngster all about responsible and humane shooting.

I don’t think reading LB POST That there was any danger regarding the fox I’m sure he is a responsible shot He was doing the shepherd a favour taking the fox The second shot killed it dead The same happened to me minus the Land Rover me and a friend were Lamping rabbits with my 22lr the farmer 2 nights previous had lost 9 chickens We were walking across the field just goin dusk to get in position at the rabbit warren when my friend seen the fox digging We put the range finder on it at 105 yards I shot it on bipod neck shot and dropped it stone dead with Winchester sub sonic  22lr as I didn’t have my 222  on me I had no other option I don’t think killing a fox at 160 yards would put are sport in any bad light In fact he should be applauded for being a good shot The 22lr will kill a fox sensible ranges with good shot placement Very good post LB 👍

[London Best]

I hope you don’t think I’m claiming I could do it again!

[Gerry78]

15 minutes ago, London Best said:

I hope you don’t think I’m claiming I could do it again!

I know you could lol 😉😉👍

[oowee]

6 hours ago, Gerry78 said:

 

I don’t think reading LB POST That there was any danger regarding the fox I’m sure he is a responsible shot He was doing the shepherd a favour taking the fox The second shot killed it dead The same happened to me minus the Land Rover me and a friend were Lamping rabbits with my 22lr the farmer 2 nights previous had lost 9 chickens We were walking across the field just goin dusk to get in position at the rabbit warren when my friend seen the fox digging We put the range finder on it at 105 yards I shot it on bipod neck shot and dropped it stone dead with Winchester sub sonic  22lr as I didn’t have my 222  on me I had no other option I don’t think killing a fox at 160 yards would put are sport in any bad light In fact he should be applauded for being a good shot The 22lr will kill a fox sensible ranges with good shot placement Very good post LB 👍

The difference being you used a range finder and a bipod and took a calculated shot, far different from a shot at a moving target from a truck window guessing hold over and lead and being surprised when it dropped. A 'John Wayne' approach to I don't care how it dies attitude, flinging lead at a live target that brings the sport / pest control into disrepute. It could so easily lead to a wounded animal running off and is not the way to pass on good habits to impressionable youngsters. 

Anyone involved in contract shooting will know how this cavalier approach will quickly lead to them loosing their contractor ticket.

7 hours ago, Walker570 said:

17hmr  ...22RF   we are talking two very different animals here. I own both and they get used in different situations.  The 17hmr is far les likely to rico.... not impossible...but less likely so that rifle is used in those situations and where shots may vary from a couple of yards from the moderator to 200yrds at the other end of the ride.  The 22 RF is my keenie meenie rifle where i want zero noise at reasonable ranges anything over 50yrds and the 17hmr would come into play, I sometimes have both with me in the Landie or blind.  Think about how and where you will want to use the rifle/calibre.  There is little doubt that the 17hmr is a surgical instrument and 9 out of 10 if you hit a tree rat with it you will discover bits and pieces of the bullet inside although it can almost chop them in half.  You can never say never with any rifle and should ALWAYS  ensure a safe backstop because once that bullet leaves the muzzle it is it's own free agent.

This ^^^^^

[bumpy22]

Think a lot is down to experience. Someone who has been doing this a few years and giving others there expert advice can muddy the waters. You could make huge errors with the most expensive equipment on the market. Be safe and always respect your quarry 

[wymberley]

This is handy, I can save a fortune on ammunition. My FAC has just gone off for renewal so there's still time to crack off an email. Been looking for something for a 100 yard plus fox. I can cancel the order for the WMR which is already on my FAC and ask for a variation as it were while my FAC is in being actioned.

There's just one teensy weensy problem that I can see and that is the Devon and Cornwall Constabulary Firearms Department's answer to my application for a variation for a 22LR for fox and a very occasional rabbit.

[bumpy22]

I bet more foxes have been shot with 22lr than any other calibre. I have had fair few and not owned one in ten years. 

[wymberley]

8 minutes ago, bumpy22 said:

I bet more foxes have been shot with 22lr than any other calibre. I have had fair few and not owned one in ten years. 

Yep, that makes sense; just as I bet that there's more people have been killed falling off a horse that killed in a motor accident.

[Gerry78]

8 hours ago, oowee said:

The difference being you used a range finder and a bipod and took a calculated shot, far different from a shot at a moving target from a truck window guessing hold over and lead and being surprised when it dropped. A 'John Wayne' approach to I don't care how it dies attitude, flinging lead at a live target that brings the sport / pest control into disrepute. It could so easily lead to a wounded animal running off and is not the way to pass on good habits to impressionable youngsters. 

Anyone involved in contract shooting will know how this cavalier approach will quickly lead to them loosing their contractor ticket.

This ^^^^^

I personally don’t think LB Would have taken the shot unless he was quite confident I know some people I’ve shot with have shot running foxes they did this because there confident behind a rifle I’m not disagreeing with anyone regarding safety But LB Post he was sitting in A jeep stationary 

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, bumpy22 said:

I bet more foxes have been shot with 22lr than any other calibre. I have had fair few and not owned one in ten years. 

Undoubtedly so, when I was growing up a .22 was the only rifle ever used for fox. The suggestion that somebody would go out and spend a grand or more on a rifle to shoot foxes would have been laughed out of the village pub.

But I was taught early on that a fox was a creature of habit, he nearly always came through the same hole in the fence for example. So a .22 was enough but you have to place your shot. 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Vince Green

[bumpy22]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

Undoubtedly so, when I was growing up a .22 was the only rifle ever used for fox. The suggestion that somebody would go out and spend a grand or more on a rifle to shoot foxes would have been laughed out of the village pub.

But I was taught early on that a fox was a creature of habit, he nearly always came through the same hole in the fence for example. So a .22 was enough but you have to place your shot. 

Exactly this sir. But the problem is someone can go out buy nv and rifle now for a couple of years and know all there is about it lol. 

 

[wymberley]

46 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Undoubtedly so, when I was growing up a .22 was the only rifle ever used for fox. The suggestion that somebody would go out and spend a grand or more on a rifle to shoot foxes would have been laughed out of the village pub.

But I was taught early on that a fox was a creature of habit, he nearly always came through the same hole in the fence for example. So a .22 was enough but you have to place your shot. 

Too right. Thing is though, back then you could have bought a house for£1000.

Joking apart, 2 things did change. Fox shooting morphed into a 'sport' in its own right. I wasn't there to see the change, leaving home in '61 and not returning until '88, but if I sit in a hedge or gateway and a fox enters the field I'm in it's no longer possible to be certain of exactly where it's going to go. This because at one time it would have had to go through two more hedges to get in the field where I was and you could be reasonably sure of his route through this few acres. Consequently, now you often need to stretch the rifle although where I shoot that is usually not as much as in other areas.

Apart from anything else, those two changes alone mean that it is essential that we conduct ourselves with due consideration for our quarry particularly in terms of the capability of both ourselves and our rifles - and possibly now more so than previously might have been the case.

[Touchstone]

Meanwhile back at the ranch and Centrepin’s question......

I would say you need an air rifle for the rats and a .22-250 or .243 for the foxes depending on whether you might get a chance at some small to medium deer as well.

Good luck,

Tim

[Gerry78]

All said and done Centerpin with out getting off topic too much lol a air rifle for rats either a 22lr or 17hmr rimfire if that’s the route you wanna go down both will quiet easily dispatch a fox within descent ranges But if you can I’d recommend a 222/223/22-250 if your gonna be after more foxes Good luck 👍

[villaman]

I will through in FAC air  in to the equation 

[Centrepin]

14 hours ago, villaman said:

I will through in FAC air  in to the equation 

Far too expensive initial purchase from what I've seen. But granted they would do the rats job easily, so does my  .410 with 9gr.

[villaman]

7 hours ago, Centrepin said:

Far too expensive initial purchase from what I've seen. But granted they would do the rats job easily, so does my  .410 with 9gr.

So if your .410 will do what you want it to do , why bother with anything else 

[Centrepin]

1 hour ago, villaman said:

So if your .410 will do what you want it to do , why bother with anything else 

The .22 is quieter, I can use it for other things and if I'm bothering to go the FAC route I can also get a black powder pistol and/or rifle which is on my bucket list.

[bruno22rf]

Out of interest - what reason are you giving for BP Pistol? Rifle is interesting - friend of mine used to travel to the states every 5 years and buy genuine "Kentucky" antique Rifles then use them to shoot Foxes as well just collecting as it was a passion of his.

Edited October 31, 2020 by bruno22rf

[Centrepin]

28 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Out of interest - what reason are you giving for BP Pistol? Rifle is interesting - friend of mine used to travel to the states every 5 years and buy genuine "Kentucky" antique Rifles then use them to shoot Foxes as well just collecting as it was a passion of his.

Not made my mind up yet. The main reason for applying for FAC is to assist in transportation of FAC rifles to/from to save my son keeping them at work. I already have permission in writing for shooting all calibres and the land has been passed prior. Black powder is just an idea I'm throwing around. First thing I'll do once I decide is talk to my RFD.

[bruno22rf]

I have always had a hankering for a Colt Dragoon or something similar but when I spoke to my FEO about it she pretty much said "fat chance" - just wanting one was not acceptable as a reason and unless I belonged to a club where such pistols could be used I would not get a variation for one.

[Centrepin]

2 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

I have always had a hankering for a Colt Dragoon or something similar but when I spoke to my FEO about it she pretty much said "fat chance" - just wanting one was not acceptable as a reason and unless I belonged to a club where such pistols could be used I would not get a variation for one.

That's more or less what I'm after. My local clay ground has a rifle range up to 300 yards and allows black powder it's only £50 per year membership so "I think" I would stand a good chance. It's passed by the Police and my RFD has already told me there are a few local users. I've not applied for FAC yet and with the new lockdown may leave it to the new year.

I'm still in the thinking can I justify it stage yet. What I want and what I can do are always differant.