Threats from Hancock

[clangerman]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

 

You live in a very rough area, come to Nottingham its very pleasant 

been there only difference is the accent lol 

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Yellow Bear said:

As a "vulnerable" person are not the anti vaxxers (and currently the anti social distancers) denying me a "basic right" by putting me at risk if I wish to live a close to normal life?

Yes, and no.
Would their rights not be affected vice versa ?

Part of the conundrum of living in a democracy I suppose, but as someone getting to 'that age' where dying of something or other becomes more likely, I sympathise .

It could come down to the old mantra 'For the greater good of the greater number' but to my mind , its more about government procuring greater control, whilst making a pretence of caring.
 

[Lloyd90]

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Yes, and no.
Would their rights not be affected vice versa ?

Part of the conundrum of living in a democracy I suppose, but as someone getting to 'that age' where dying of something or other becomes more likely, I sympathise .

It could come down to the old mantra 'For the greater good of the greater number' but to my mind , its more about government procuring greater control, whilst making a pretence of caring.
 

 

It needs to be optional. No one should be forced to take it against their will. 

 

Government facilities will have to carry on as normal but private businesses should be able to turn away people who've not had it. Cinema's, restaurants etc. 

[Rewulf]

16 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

There is a nurse in South Dakota who has said patients are coming into her hospital with severe symptoms yet when told they have Covid they are refusing to accept the diagnosis because "there is no such thing" its "fake news" etc. Not just one or two either, lots of them.

Final proof Darwin was right!

Mmm first impression is that the piece is more about attacking the Republican governor .
Nice also how this one nurse can say pretty much what she likes , as there is no way of checking the veracity of what 'some' patients said in their final days.

Rewulf has fact checked this story and concluded its PROBABLY FAKE NEWS 

1 minute ago, Lloyd90 said:

It needs to be optional. No one should be forced to take it against their will. 

Glad we agree there.

 

1 minute ago, Lloyd90 said:

Government facilities will have to carry on as normal but private businesses should be able to turn away people who've not had it. Cinema's, restaurants etc. 

A sure fire way for some private businesses to get ahead then , by ignoring the non vaxxed ?

[Scully]

A government minister in R4 this afternoon said that no athletes attending the games in Tokyo next year will be forced to have the vaccine, but they will be ‘urged’ as a sign of respect to other athletes. So a shaming exercise basically. 🙂

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

A government minister in R4 this afternoon said that no athletes attending the games in Tokyo next year will be forced to have the vaccine, but they will be ‘urged’ as a sign of respect to other athletes. So a shaming exercise basically. 🙂

Exactly.

You know, I suffer a decent bout of flu nearly every year, comparing notes with other sufferers , there is a wide spectrum of opinion on the jab.
Some like myself hack through it , some years worse than others, never took a day off work though , never had a flu jab.
Others have the jab, still catch it to varying degrees, some get it worse, MOST catch it straight after having the injection, very few avoid that seasons flu.

Which makes me wonder just how effective an untrialled covid vaccine is going to be, we already know its mutated into several strains, we already know the antbodies dont hang about for long.
This vaccine is not the magic bullet.
If you are vulnerable theres nothing to lose (or is there ?) but me myself and I will not be anywhere near the front of the queue for it , or the flu jab that seems to be being pushed hard this year.

[Yellow Bear]

26 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

A sure fire way for some private businesses to get ahead then , by ignoring the non vaxxed ?

It does, however give everybody a choice does it not?

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Others have the jab, still catch it to varying degrees, some get it worse, MOST catch it straight after having the injection, very few avoid that seasons flu.

I may have been lucky, but I have never had real flu in a year in which I have had the vaccine.  When I have had real flu, I could not have gone on working (and that is from someone who only had 3 sick days in 20 years) as I was too ill to even get far from my bed.

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

If you are vulnerable theres nothing to lose (or is there ?) but me myself and I will not be anywhere near the front of the queue for it , or the flu jab that seems to be being pushed hard this year.

I will be as near the front of the queue as I reasonably can be.  I'm not highly vulnerable, but age (63) and blood pressure (controlled OK by medication) both add some minor additional risk.  I regard the vaccine as a common sense precaution and it is likely to be much lower risk that the virus (which I might or might not eventually catch if I wasn't vaccinated).  Once vaccinated, it seems my risk of catching it will be reduced to 1/10th of non vaccinated - which I regard as very good news.

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Yellow Bear said:

It does, however give everybody a choice does it not?

Which is right and proper.
The difference to making it so hard to access normal services with having it , as to make it virtually compulsory anyway ?

Think of it like this, if the vaccine is 90% effective as were told, and the extra vulnerable use continued precautions, as long as THEY have had it , surely you should be protected ?
I know the vaccine argument doesnt end there, but it begs questions about vaccines in general, they do not always stop you from catching the disease.
Just as universal mask use doesnt.

[Smokersmith]

 

Why do you think the government is doing what it's doing ... ? is there a coherent argument for a hidden agenda? , and is it the same in all of the other countries who are doing pretty much the same as we are?

 

 

[Lloyd90]

14 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Exactly.

You know, I suffer a decent bout of flu nearly every year, comparing notes with other sufferers , there is a wide spectrum of opinion on the jab.
Some like myself hack through it , some years worse than others, never took a day off work though , never had a flu jab.
Others have the jab, still catch it to varying degrees, some get it worse, MOST catch it straight after having the injection, very few avoid that seasons flu.

Which makes me wonder just how effective an untrialled covid vaccine is going to be, we already know its mutated into several strains, we already know the antbodies dont hang about for long.
This vaccine is not the magic bullet.
If you are vulnerable theres nothing to lose (or is there ?) but me myself and I will not be anywhere near the front of the queue for it , or the flu jab that seems to be being pushed hard this year.

I have never had the flu in 30 years. Had a few bad colds. 
 

My mate had the flu, his partner had to roll him onto his side and hold a urine bowl next to him for him to pee into whilst still in bed. He was too weak to even stand up. 
 

He was ordinarily a young fit 20 year old with no health conditions who worked out regularly. 
 

Can I ask how you know your had Flu, and not just a bad cold? 
 

 

2 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

 

Why do you think the government is doing what it's doing ... ? is there a coherent argument for a hidden agenda? , and is it the same in all of the other countries who are doing pretty much the same as we are?

Considering the fact that if I tell someone in my office a ‘secret’ in the morning, every single person in the office knows about it by noon, I doubt there is a global conspiracy going on that no one has managed to piece together. 🤣

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

I will be as near the front of the queue as I reasonably can be.  I'm not highly vulnerable, but age (63) and blood pressure (controlled OK by medication) both add some minor additional risk.  I regard the vaccine as a common sense precaution and it is likely to be much lower risk that the virus (which I might or might not eventually catch if I wasn't vaccinated).  Once vaccinated, it seems my risk of catching it will be reduced to 1/10th of non vaccinated - which I regard as very good news.

Im 10 years younger with the same blood pressure issue, theres plenty out there to kill you, but statistically covid is not on the radar IMHO.

The interesting question, the elephant in the room as it were is this...
How long have we really had covid amongst us ?
Studies in Italy have shown samples of covid infected blood from last summer, a post mortem on a man in Paris shows covid 19 in December ,many people including myself were very ill in December and January with covid type symptoms (I had flu last October, a decent dose, but managed to work) What I had in December flattened me, and took me 3 months before my lungs felt right.
So if covids been around a while longer than Feb/March , and 80 maybe 90 % of people are asymptomatic, we could actually be well on the way to herd immunity, and many of these tests could be false positives caused by antibodies or dead covid cells.
This isnt wild conjecture, its actually being discussed by the science community.
But does it do the governments plans and strategy any good, short answer is no.

6 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Why do you think the government is doing what it's doing ... ? is there a coherent argument for a hidden agenda? , and is it the same in all of the other countries who are doing pretty much the same as we are?

That in itself makes me wonder.
Hidden agenda ? I couldnt possibly speculate here, but ask yourself if government strategy makes sense ?

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Can I ask how you know your had Flu, and not just a bad cold? 

I get regular colds, theyre gone within a week.

2 main types of flu, A lasts around 2 weeks , not too bad, very few after effects, headaches (bad) teeth hurt , minor aches, lots of snot.
B , nasty , all the above but worse, major muscle pain, less snot , but terrible cough , often leads to chest infections , after effects can last months, often cant get out of bed , but not bedridden.

11 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

My mate had the flu, his partner had to roll him onto his side and hold a urine bowl next to him for him to pee into whilst still in bed. He was too weak to even stand up. 

He is either a wuss , or has a wee fetish.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

How long have we really had covid amongst us ?

I also suspect it was here in the autumn.  I was ill in Dec/Jan - to the extent I had to call the Dr. for the first time in many years for anything 'unknown' like that.  (I periodically have to call re gout pills prescription renewal, but that is just a formality - they are supposed to speak to you before renewing prescription).  I have no idea if it was Covid, but various other tests all came back negative (thankfully as some were for things I really didn't want) and I got better.  Covid was not on the radar then as it was only 'known' to be in China.

We were told that we would get an antibody test - but firstly it seems that a reliable test hasn't yet arrived and secondly, antibodies seem to drop away quite quickly, so I'm not sure how long afterwards you can tell 'if you've had it'?.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

We were told that we would get an antibody test - but firstly it seems that a reliable test hasn't yet arrived and secondly, antibodies seem to drop away quite quickly, so I'm not sure how long afterwards you can tell 'if you've had it'?.

The antibody test done en masse , WOULD have posed many questions.
We have got to the point now where its pointless, but the results could still be embarrassing.

There was talk about testing the whole of Norwich to try and gauge how many people may have had it, but it never happened, why ? 

All in all the antibody test, which could have been a huge help , was quietly forgotten/sidelined.
Even the private ones you could pay for were debunked as being 'inaccurate'

[bavarianbrit]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I think nearly everyone is far more clued up on social distancing , and hygiene than they were, if anything good comes out of this, its that.
Think how peoples heads spin round when someone coughs into their mask in a supermarket now ?
The paranoia back in March has been replaced by a sort of considered caution.

As far as the numbers dropping over summer , covid infections and deaths virtually flatlined for 3 months in many countries, and many people thought we had seen the back of the worst.
But predictions even back then were dire for the winter months, did the science 'know' something we didnt ?
If this sort of information was available , then WHY 'Eat out to help out' ?
Why send the schools and universities back end of August ?
Why scramble for universal mask wearing after the horse had bolted ?

As I said earlier , how were the projections arrived out, would the strategy hold up to scrutiny ?

Agreed , but I think many of them didnt believe it would be enforced.
Maybe issuing fixed penalties isnt the answer anyway , as they could easily take them to court and means test them.

But surely the threat would deter the majority, otherwise theres no point in doing it.

Think how peoples heads spin round when someone coughs into their mask in a supermarket now? I see too many in Morrisons/Tesco/JS refusing to even wear masks here in east Kent. 

Morons without any respect IMO.

[Westley]

2 hours ago, VicW said:

Compulsory vaccination enforcement would be very difficult to action and smacks of a police state as it would involve,as a last resort, arrest, physical immobilisation and contact by, presumably, the police. The medical person giving the injection would be involuntarily involved and would,  I suggest, refuse to take part. This could be followed by claims against the government for assault.

Vic.

I did hear that Police Firearms Officers are being trained in the use of vets dart guns. They will be used to administer the antidote to those who refuse to use the usual channels. They plan on rolling this out from the 1st April, 2021   !

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, bavarianbrit said:

I see too many in Morrisons/Tesco/JS refusing to even wear masks here in east Kent. 

Our Morrisons has someone on the door - who reminds you to wear a mask.  I have not seen anyone refuse - and only one person 'reminded' who put one on without complaint.  Not sure how he deals with people who won't put one one - my guess is that they claim they have a 'medical reason' - and he obviously cannot know if that is true or not.

[Rewulf]

Just now, bavarianbrit said:

Think how peoples heads spin round when someone coughs into their mask in a supermarket now? I see too many in Morrisons/Tesco/JS refusing to even wear masks here in east Kent. 

Morons without any respect IMO.

Yes I see them myself, chin sticking out , inviting the challenge.
How many have genuine ailments that exempt them ? Very few Id wager.

 

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

Our Morrisons has someone on the door - who reminds you to wear a mask.  I have not seen anyone refuse - and only one person 'reminded' who put one on without complaint.  Not sure how he deals with people who won't put one one - my guess is that they claim they have a 'medical reason' - and he obviously cannot know if that is true or not.

We used to have some of those at our Morrissons , very large African gentleman, constantly on his phone talking Swahili , NO MASK .

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Exactly.

You know, I suffer a decent bout of flu nearly every year, comparing notes with other sufferers , there is a wide spectrum of opinion on the jab.
Some like myself hack through it , some years worse than others, never took a day off work though , never had a flu jab.
Others have the jab, still catch it to varying degrees, some get it worse, MOST catch it straight after having the injection, very few avoid that seasons flu.

Which makes me wonder just how effective an untrialled covid vaccine is going to be, we already know its mutated into several strains, we already know the antbodies dont hang about for long.
This vaccine is not the magic bullet.
If you are vulnerable theres nothing to lose (or is there ?) but me myself and I will not be anywhere near the front of the queue for it , or the flu jab that seems to be being pushed hard this year.

I’m not really sure you can work through flu; I only came close to having it ( according to my Doc I had severe flu symptoms but not full blown flu ) many years ago and it took me what seemed like an hour to get my boots on and tie them! 🙂

Ive never had a flu jab either, but have been told I can have one if I want although I’ll have to pay for it. I may yet have it if I’m in town and remember to call in, and there’s no wait. Not too fussed really. 

I’m not vulnerable by any means, but am self employed,  so will have the COVID vaccine when it becomes available, but I wouldn’t want it to be compulsory. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Scully

[WalkedUp]

Research the 1853 Vaccination Act and then the 1889 Royal Commission. 

Compulsion is not the way to vaccinate, education is. 

[Scully]

20 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Research the 1853 Vaccination Act and then the 1889 Royal Commission. 

 

No offence, but I really can’t be bothered. 

[Smokersmith]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

There was talk about testing the whole of Norwich to try and gauge how many people may have had it, but it never happened, why ? 

Perhaps because people don’t like having things forced on them 🤣

[bavarianbrit]

38 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Research the 1853 Vaccination Act and then the 1889 Royal Commission. 

Compulsion is not the way to vaccinate, education is. 

You can"t educate pork, sadly.

[treetree]

3 hours ago, bavarianbrit said:

Think how peoples heads spin round when someone coughs into their mask in a supermarket now? I see too many in Morrisons/Tesco/JS refusing to even wear masks here in east Kent. 

Morons without any respect IMO.

Says the man wandering around with a damp bit of cloth over his face, to protect him from a virus with a 99.7% survival rate (not including the huge numbers who are asympyomatic) when there are no randomised control tests showing these masks work. All to protect from a virus where average age of death from the virus is 82 years old.

And they are doing so even though they people telling them to do so now were telling them they didn't work 4 months ago!

Edited November 17, 2020 by treetree