Blaming BREXIT

[WalkedUp]

Our vet has two clinics but has closed one due to staff shortages. The one that is open is very understaffed and over busy. Not ideal. I spoke to one of the vets today to see why they were understaffed. She blamed BREXIT as many of their vets were from the EU and have left the country. It is interesting as I can neither prove nor disprove this, and to untangle from the effects of the CV-19 pandemic would be nigh on impossible without comparison to other nations.

I am curious of how many businesses will blame BREXIT (rightly or wrongly) and how long it will take for us to get any objective evidence what the short term impacts are/were. 

[Bigbob]

Our vet has 4 practices 3 small ones and a big animal hospital one they normally work from ,  now they only deal with emergencies there and you have to make an appointment for a month away for one of the smaller ones . But anytime you had a appointment before it was either a newly qualified vet  or a vet from EU probably cheaper getting them to cover nightshifts ?. 

[ditchman]

7 minutes ago, Bigbob said:

Our vet has 4 practices 3 small ones and a big animal hospital one they normally work from ,  now they only deal with emergencies there and you have to make an appointment for a month away for one of the smaller ones . But anytime you had a appointment before it was either a newly qualified vet  or a vet from EU probably cheaper getting them to cover nightshifts ?. 

yup.........MONEY....................when you got an EU vet i bet your bill was half as much as normal ????........and the UK vet had traded his/her BMW in for  ford fiesta

vets are so caring..........

[Docleo]

33 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Our vet has two clinics but has closed one due to staff shortages. The one that is open is very understaffed and over busy. Not ideal. I spoke to one of the vets today to see why they were understaffed. She blamed BREXIT as many of their vets were from the EU and have left the country. It is interesting as I can neither prove nor disprove this, and to untangle from the effects of the CV-19 pandemic would be nigh on impossible without comparison to other nations.

I am curious of how many businesses will blame BREXIT (rightly or wrongly) and how long it will take for us to get any objective evidence what the short term impacts are/were. 

Really interesting point. 

I was wondering pretty much the same few days ago, while reading about the fuel shortage. 

Do you think people (brexiters or remoaners) will ever be objective enough evaluating the impact of Brexit? 

[Bigbob]

34 minutes ago, ditchman said:

yup.........MONEY....................when you got an EU vet i bet your bill was half as much as normal ????........and the UK vet had traded his/her BMW in for  ford fiesta

vets are so caring..........

They all run about in Range Rovers with private regs VET 1  VET 2  & VET 3

[12gauge82]

17 minutes ago, Docleo said:

Really interesting point. 

I was wondering pretty much the same few days ago, while reading about the fuel shortage. 

Do you think people (brexiters or remoaners) will ever be objective enough evaluating the impact of Brexit? 

Most remoaners no. 

I think alot of brexiteers were expecting alot more disruption than there's been, due to all the scaremongering so will be quite pragmatic about admitting if there were any disruption. 

[oowee]

1 hour ago, WalkedUp said:

Our vet has two clinics but has closed one due to staff shortages. The one that is open is very understaffed and over busy. Not ideal. I spoke to one of the vets today to see why they were understaffed. She blamed BREXIT as many of their vets were from the EU and have left the country. It is interesting as I can neither prove nor disprove this, and to untangle from the effects of the CV-19 pandemic would be nigh on impossible without comparison to other nations.

I am curious of how many businesses will blame BREXIT (rightly or wrongly) and how long it will take for us to get any objective evidence what the short term impacts are/were. 

Same with our Vets here in Bristol. It was drop in but they don't have the staff anylonger so appointment only. 

[armsid]

We are seeing more people blame Brexit for our woes at the moment but why? Have we not trained any vets here ? There is no shortage of tanker drivers just the media hype "there is a "      and the sheep follow The east Europeans could have stayed no one told them to leave Look back before the days of the EEC this country had a huge mix of foreign workers all living and working together without hassle(poles turks greeks italallians chinese asians west indians and others from eastern europe and elsewhere what has changed ?Have we closed every training establishment to solely rely on outside workers just to boost proffitts .A lot of people on other websites who are HGV drivers say that they find the regulations are putting them off staying in the job when other places have fixed hrs etc but are like many are loyal to their bosses, We have had 5 yrs to set up for the skills required so what has gone wrong the dole too generous or wages carp and need addressing fast

[oowee]

10 minutes ago, armsid said:

We are seeing more people blame Brexit for our woes at the moment but why? Have we not trained any vets here ? There is no shortage of tanker drivers just the media hype "there is a "      and the sheep follow The east Europeans could have stayed no one told them to leave Look back before the days of the EEC this country had a huge mix of foreign workers all living and working together without hassle(poles turks greeks italallians chinese asians west indians and others from eastern europe and elsewhere what has changed ?Have we closed every training establishment to solely rely on outside workers just to boost proffitts .A lot of people on other websites who are HGV drivers say that they find the regulations are putting them off staying in the job when other places have fixed hrs etc but are like many are loyal to their bosses, We have had 5 yrs to set up for the skills required so what has gone wrong the dole too generous or wages carp and need addressing fast

We have just taken around half a million out of the workplace and not put any contigencies in place as to how we would manage it. Case in point is the ridiculous proposal to have 3 months visa's for European drivers to fill the current gap. That together with the non existent seasonal workers scheme and it's easy to see why we now have the start of the storm. 

[12gauge82]

14 minutes ago, oowee said:

We have just taken around half a million out of the workplace and not put any contigencies in place as to how we would manage it. Case in point is the ridiculous proposal to have 3 months visa's for European drivers to fill the current gap. That together with the non existent seasonal workers scheme and it's easy to see why we now have the start of the storm. 

True that. If the remainiacs hadn't spent 5 years fighting the democratic decision to leave and instead supported and formed a government that planned we would be in a lot better position. But it is what it is. At least we're now out and can start training British workers, who will go on to do skilled well paid jobs. 

[Docleo]

So, if Brexit is "biting" those against Brexit are to be blamed? 

[12gauge82]

20 minutes ago, Docleo said:

So, if Brexit is "biting" those against Brexit are to be blamed? 

Brexit isn't biting but if it was due to the above stated facts, not those who voted remain, but then accepted the referendum result, but those who attempted to block the democratic outcome of the referendum for the past 4 or 5 years are absolutely partly responsible. Look at what's happened to NI, that's due to Theresa May and her attempts to deliver brexit in name only, telling us at the time it was the best deal that could be done without plunging the country into recession. What an absolute lier! 

The problem is, these people are never held to account and they know it, taken to extreme, look at Blair, he's a war criminal and now the peace envoy to the middle East, could there be a more perverse situation. 

[henry d]

16 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

She blamed BREXIT as many of their vets were from the EU and have left the country. It is interesting as I can neither prove nor disprove this

Surely you have to accept what you are told by the vet?

[12gauge82]

31 minutes ago, henry d said:

Surely you have to accept what you are told by the vet?

Surely you can see there are alot of people in this country who simply will not accept the democratic result of the largest vote that took place in this country and are happy to pin anything they can on brexit. But I won't hold my breath. 

[oowee]

Surely you can see that those that there are many that voted Brexit who are unable to see or in some cases understand the consequences of their actions? 

The rest are looking for an upside. 

[udderlyoffroad]

1 hour ago, Docleo said:

So, if Brexit is "biting" those against Brexit are to be blamed? 

To a certain extent, yes.

If you were, say, an elected politician holding meetings with M Barnier and his negotiating team, actively seeking to undermine the UK's position, then yes.

Or if you were a high-flying financier who spent thousands' of gullible peoples' money conducting law-fare in the courts to try to reverse a referendum result.

Or if you had campaigned against Brexit, but had somehow manoeuvred yourself into a position of power and ended up as Prime Minister, and then wasted everybody's time with a BRINO (Brexit In Name Only) type deal?  Then yes.

Back on topic:  My local vets appears to recruit from Spain.  Still has a full complement of Iberian vets.  Given all EU nationals had to do to stay here is fill out a form - barely even any check of criminal history, and they can (pandemics notwithstanding) still travel freely to and from the EU, I'm struggling to see what the problem is? 

If they were offered better pay and conditions elsewhere, then why not go elsewhere?  The UK is after all, incredibly expensive and has a ridiculously high tax burden and appalling (human) healthcare.

 

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

Surely you can see that those that there are many that voted Brexit who are unable to see or in some cases understand the consequences of their actions? 

The rest are looking for an upside. 

Im not really sure other than the NI situation cased by Theresa disMay trying to keep us tied to the EU what the major downside of brexit is at the moment?

I think it would be fair to say the good has so far outweighed any bad, for instance the fantastic vaccine roll out to our most vulnerable that saved many lives, that would not have been possible if we were an EU member. 

[stu64]

Blaming brexit for driver shortages is inaccurate, according to Euronews on sky tv. The driver shortage is europe wide as drivers leave the job due to poor conditions, poor money and virtual exploitation. 

[Cosmicblue]

Blaming Brexit alone is an over simplification of the facts.

Brexit might have been doable on its own but as we all know Covid came along more or less at the same time.  Workers in the unskilled and semi-skilled areas left the the UK in droves to return to their home countries many never to return.  We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that that the UK was a very attractive place for foreign workers, many countries teach English as a second language from a very early age so coming here was very low risk.   Some countries in the EU have high levels of unemployment, Spain being a good example so a low wage job in the UK was attractive compared with no job at all.  This also applied to skilled/professional occupations too.

The reality on the ground now in the UK is around a million job vacancies, its so bad now that companies know that when a member of staff leaves they may not be replaceable. The only weapon is to increase the wages...oh hello now we have inflationary factors.

In my day job I get to travel, stay in hotels, eat out etc, the hotels can't get staff (most were foreign and went home), poor service in restaurants is the norm now - again lack of staff....vacancy signs in every window. 

 

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Im not really sure other than the NI situation cased by Theresa disMay trying to keep us tied to the EU what the major downside of brexit is at the moment?

I think it would be fair to say the good has so far outweighed any bad, for instance the fantastic vaccine roll out to our most vulnerable that saved many lives, that would not have been possible if we were an EU member. 

The vaccinne roll out was indeed a great victory for the NHS and credit to the Govt procurement team for their bravery in purchasing. All of which was independent from the Brexit process. EU Govts were asked to join an EU purchasing scheme the UK declined to do so (as was its right at the time as a member state). 

2 minutes ago, stu64 said:

Blaming brexit for driver shortages is inaccurate, according to Euronews on sky tv. The driver shortage is europe wide as drivers leave the job due to poor conditions, poor money and virtual exploitation. 

The focus on lorry drivers is missing the point. There is a shortage of labour and as a result rates go up. As rates go up some activities such as lorry driving, warehousing etc come under pressure as labour moves. We have just removed circa 1/2 a million (or whatever the number is) from the labour pool and not put any contingencies in place. It's an inevitable problem

 

Down side. 

Border controls and legislation costs have significantly increased for exporters and importers. There are significant delays to good causing more goods to be in transit adding to business ineficiencies.

A number of business on both sides of the curtain have made the decision to stop exporting as a result. 

Labour shortages are becoming more apparent everyday. There is still no seasonal workers scheme. The care home situation will be costing lives. There are product shortages as a result of a lack of warehouse staff, drivers, costs increases. We can alll see what has happened vets and dentist's

We have lost qualification parity with the EU (even though it was offered the UK declined the offer) making it harder to use qualifications abroad.

Business investment and finacial passporting? 

I now need a visa to visit the EU for longer than 90 days. My phone incurs roaming charges. Something of a vat nightmare has been created bringing goods (boats) back to the UK or keeping them in the EU for longer than 18months. 

It's not Brexit alone of course the pandemic has helped mask the inititial impacts. The Brexit decay is a slow economic drain on the country rather than immediate cliff edge stuff, as cost gradualy rachet upwards as a result of increased inefficiencies. Day to day many will not notice but its there non the less. 

 

 

[12gauge82]

29 minutes ago, oowee said:

The vaccinne roll out was indeed a great victory for the NHS and credit to the Govt procurement team for their bravery in purchasing. All of which was independent from the Brexit process. EU Govts were asked to join an EU purchasing scheme the UK declined to do so (as was its right at the time as a member state). 

The focus on lorry drivers is missing the point. There is a shortage of labour and as a result rates go up. As rates go up some activities such as lorry driving, warehousing etc come under pressure as labour moves. We have just removed circa 1/2 a million (or whatever the number is) from the labour pool and not put any contingencies in place. It's an inevitable problem

 

Down side. 

Border controls and legislation costs have significantly increased for exporters and importers. There are significant delays to good causing more goods to be in transit adding to business ineficiencies.

A number of business on both sides of the curtain have made the decision to stop exporting as a result. 

Labour shortages are becoming more apparent everyday. There is still no seasonal workers scheme. The care home situation will be costing lives. There are product shortages as a result of a lack of warehouse staff, drivers, costs increases. We can alll see what has happened vets and dentist's

We have lost qualification parity with the EU (even though it was offered the UK declined the offer) making it harder to use qualifications abroad.

Business investment and finacial passporting? 

I now need a visa to visit the EU for longer than 90 days. My phone incurs roaming charges. Something of a vat nightmare has been created bringing goods (boats) back to the UK or keeping them in the EU for longer than 18months. 

It's not Brexit alone of course the pandemic has helped mask the inititial impacts. The Brexit decay is a slow economic drain on the country rather than immediate cliff edge stuff, as cost gradualy rachet upwards as a result of increased inefficiencies. Day to day many will not notice but its there non the less. 

 

 

Your deluding yourself if you believe we could have rolled our own vaccines out without the EU if we were still a member. 

These Labour issues are great news for ordinary, hard working uk citizens, its not such good news if your the owner of a billion pound organisation that rely on cheap labour to undercut British workers. 

[Cosmicblue]

The cost of living seems to have risen markedly this year, and I fear we are on the thin end of the wedge.     

Goods of all descriptions seem to be in short supply, building materials and, dare I say it, shotgun cartridges.  Visited my supplier this morning , no .410 loads of any description and no 20 bore game loads. 

Brexit or Covid implications - its hard to tell.

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Your deluding yourself if you believe we could have rolled our own vaccines out without the EU if we were still a member. 

These Labour issues are great news for ordinary, hard working uk citizens, its not such good news if your the owner of a billion pound organisation that rely on cheap labour to undercut British workers. 

No they are not - because ordinary hard working UK citizens are going to bear the brunt of the increase in costs and most likely can't afford it.   The Billion pound organisation will just increase the prices to cover operating costs (protecting profit margin) and everyone pays more.

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Your deluding yourself if you believe we could have rolled our own vaccines out without the EU if we were still a member. 

These Labour issues are great news for ordinary, hard working uk citizens, its not such good news if your the owner of a billion pound organisation that rely on cheap labour to undercut British workers. 

We were still a member when we opted out. 

Good news for the employees but bad news for the consumers. As wages go up they have to be paid for and the result will be less economic activity which will be good for the planet.

[12gauge82]

21 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

The cost of living seems to have risen markedly this year, and I fear we are on the thin end of the wedge.     

Goods of all descriptions seem to be in short supply, building materials and, dare I say it, shotgun cartridges.  Visited my supplier this morning , no .410 loads of any description and no 20 bore game loads. 

Brexit or Covid implications - its hard to tell.

No they are not - because ordinary hard working UK citizens are going to bear the brunt of the increase in costs and most likely can't afford it.   The Billion pound organisation will just increase the prices to cover operating costs (protecting profit margin) and everyone pays more.

Wrong, so the price of goods go up a bit, the offset from wage increases will offset that substantially. It's simple capitalism market forces. 

17 minutes ago, oowee said:

We were still a member when we opted out. 

Good news for the employees but bad news for the consumers. As wages go up they have to be paid for and the result will be less economic activity which will be good for the planet.

Your proving the point, it is widely accepted that brexit allowed us to roll out our own vaccine program, that has turned out to save many lives. No why won't you accept it? Could it have something to do with the way you voted? 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1431403/michel-barnier-news-brexit-britain-coronavirus-vaccine-eu-uk-bureaucracy-ont

[12gauge82]

The EU is a big unwieldy, bureaucratic, monstrosity that would have cost us countless lives already if we were still a member. 

Thank god we're out.