Pheasants - Maximum effective range for UK lead shot sizes.

[Gas seal]

Hi Shotkam this may help it’s the official instructions of shot size and range and how to shoot. It’s on the reverse side of my first gun license. Prepared by British field sports society, in consultation with the RSPCA and the universities federation for animal welfare. If we talked about ballistic gel in them days we would think it would be a laxative. Good luck with your test. I would use the gel to compare the penetration of different types of shot at the same range after you have the best pattern.

[wymberley]

15 hours ago, Gas seal said:

Hi Shotkam this may help it’s the official instructions of shot size and range and how to shoot. It’s on the reverse side of my first gun license. Prepared by British field sports society, in consultation with the RSPCA and the universities federation for animal welfare. If we talked about ballistic gel in them days we ink it would be a laxative. Good luck with your test. I would use the gel to compare the penetration of different types of shot at the same range after you havewould th the best pattern.

Or Brylcreem! 

[Krico woodcock]

15 hours ago, Gas seal said:

Hi Shotkam this may help it’s the official instructions of shot size and range and how to shoot. It’s on the reverse side of my first gun license. Prepared by British field sports society, in consultation with the RSPCA and the universities federation for animal welfare. If we talked about ballistic gel in them days we would think it would be a laxative. Good luck with your test. I would use the gel to compare the penetration of different types of shot at the same range after you have the best pattern.

Very sound advice and full off common sense. What year, out of interest?

[wymberley]

25 minutes ago, Krico woodcock said:

Very sound advice and full off common sense. What year, out of interest?

Youngster here - 9:26 23 Aug 58.

[Shotkam]

18 hours ago, Gas seal said:

Hi Shotkam this may help it’s the official instructions of shot size and range and how to shoot. It’s on the reverse side of my first gun license. Prepared by British field sports society, in consultation with the RSPCA and the universities federation for animal welfare. If we talked about ballistic gel in them days we would think it would be a laxative. Good luck with your test. I would use the gel to compare the penetration of different types of shot at the same range after you have the best pattern.

Yes, don't waste Gel blocks until the pattern is the best attainable - I agree.

Good post !

[Minky]

Isn't this trying to reinvent the wheel.?  Years ago all of the range / pellet ratio stuff was covered by the General info produced be Eley.  It was constant in the yearly Eley diary and other give away gen sheets ect. Non of this is new. The quarry species /shot/cartridges haven't changed. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Minky

[London Best]

52 minutes ago, Minky said:

Isn't this trying to reinvent the wheel.?  Years ago all of the range / pellet ratio stuff was covered by the General info produced be Eley.  It was constant in the yearly Eley diary and other give away gen sheets ect. Non of this is new. The quarry species /shot/cartridges haven't changed. 

But some people, often fairly new to shooting, seem to believe that “modern” cartridges are somehow more effective and “modern” sticky-out chokes have some sort of magical properties to increase effective range out of all feasible proportion for regular lead shot.

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, Minky said:

Isn't this trying to reinvent the wheel.?  Years ago all of the range / pellet ratio stuff was covered by the General info produced be Eley.  It was constant in the yearly Eley diary and other give away gen sheets ect. Non of this is new. The quarry species /shot/cartridges haven't changed. 

No , it's not, but is/was this old valid? What happened to one particular table in the Diary - 'Effective Range Of Game Cartridges'?

[Minky]

5 hours ago, London Best said:

But some people, often fairly new to shooting, seem to believe that “modern” cartridges are somehow more effective and “modern” sticky-out chokes have some sort of magical properties to increase effective range out of all feasible proportion for regular lead shot.

If anyone looks back at the thousands of birds that were shot on the large estate shoots they weren't shooting massively heavy loads with multi choke guns. Most of the guns were light sbs 2" or2-1/2" chamber. 

[wymberley]

8 hours ago, Minky said:

If anyone looks back at the thousands of birds that were shot on the large estate shoots they weren't shooting massively heavy loads with multi choke guns. Most of the guns were light sbs 2" or2-1/2" chamber. 

..... "and where the more normal driven ranges were somewhere between .....  and .....  yards, except in a few places where pheasants are shown which really are high, passing perhaps ..... yards and more above the shooter." 

Please don't shoot this messenger, but see, 'Shotgun Shooting Techniques and Technology' by John Brindle at Chapter 4, Choosing a Choke and a Load -  Driven Game. Thus it will be appreciated why shorter chambers, lighter loads and little choke were up for the job at that time and in those circumstances.

[Old farrier]

15 hours ago, London Best said:

But some people, often fairly new to shooting, seem to believe that “modern” cartridges are somehow more effective and “modern” sticky-out chokes have some sort of magical properties to increase effective range out of all feasible proportion for regular lead shot.

But modern cartridges are more effective 

shoot a yellow wizard and then a sipe and tell me there’s no difference 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Good grief, someone might have to leave Victorian times, one day.   

[Shotkam]

For the record, some of the best / highest (within range) birds I have seen consistently 'killed' as in stone dead in the last few years, were shot using 28-30gram No6 fibre wad.

[JDog]

42 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

For the record, some of the best / highest (within range) birds I have seen consistently 'killed' as in stone dead in the last few years, were shot using 28-30gram No6 fibre wad.

Hooray.

[London Best]

On 08/12/2021 at 12:15, Old farrier said:

But modern cartridges are more effective 

shoot a yellow wizard and then a sipe and tell me there’s no difference 

I have to agree about the Yellow Wizards! They were a really poor cartridge.

[Shotkam]

On 08/12/2021 at 17:34, JDog said:

Hooray.

So are you a fan of UK No 6 ?

If so I can understand why, there clearly being such a disparity between energy failure and pattern failure with No 5 above 40 yards and increasingly more so as shot size increases.

 

[JDog]

1 minute ago, Shotkam said:

So are you a fan of UK No 6 ?

If so I can understand why, there clearly being such a disparity between energy failure and pattern failure with No 5 above 40 yards and increasingly more so as shot size increases.

 

Yes and 28 or 30 gram loads.

[Shotkam]

22 minutes ago, JDog said:

Yes and 28 or 30 gram loads.

I'm thinking 20 guage lighter load = reduced pellet deformation and pattern disruption, whereas with a 12 the shorter shot load length within the barrel is more forgiving due to less pellets in direct contact with the barrel and more in contact with the wad.

[Fellside]

43 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

I'm thinking 20 guage lighter load = reduced pellet deformation and pattern disruption, whereas with a 12 the shorter shot load length within the barrel is more forgiving due to less pellets in direct contact with the barrel and more in contact with the wad.

There is much more variability in a person’s shooting abilities, from one bird to another, than there ever will be between cartridge types. 

[London Best]

3 minutes ago, Fellside said:

There is much more variability in a person’s shooting abilities, from one bird to another, than there ever will be between cartridge types. 

Strangely, that is never factored in by those who overthink cartridge types/choke/etc.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

6 minutes ago, London Best said:

Strangely, that is never factored in by those who overthink cartridge types/choke/etc.

I wonder what the scientific name is for the over-thinkers and non doers?   

[wymberley]

34 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I wonder what the scientific name is for the over-thinkers and non doers?   

SLYPALs

[Scully]

3 hours ago, Shotkam said:

 

If so I can understand why, there clearly being such a disparity between energy failure and pattern failure with No 5 above 40 yards and increasingly more so as shot size increases.

 

Really? There was certainly nothing wrong with the No 5 shot cartridges I was using last weekend on 50 yard pheasant. Maybe I was just lucky…..repeatedly. 🙂

[Shotkam]

No 6 shot will always give more effective kills at 50 yards for the comparative very few people in the shooting world who can consistently put the bird within the pattern at a true 50 yards, due to increase in No. of pellet strikes as we all know.

This fact can be demonstrated if you shoot a set clay with a 5 and then try a 6 - the difference is striking and is far easier to quantify as the effects can be clearly seen.

This can be easily seen on the pattern plate also.

Which is why I said in a previous post some of the best / highest (within range) birds I have seen consistently 'killed' as in stone dead in the last few years, were shot using 28-30gram No6 fibre wad.

You can never argue with the science but people always will.

[Scully]

42 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

No 6 shot will always give more effective kills at 50 yards for the comparative very few people in the shooting world who can consistently put the bird within the pattern at a true 50 yards, due to increase in No. of pellet strikes as we all know.

This fact can be demonstrated if you shoot a set clay with a 5 and then try a 6 - the difference is striking and is far easier to quantify as the effects can be clearly seen.

This can be easily seen on the pattern plate also.

Which is why I said in a previous post some of the best / highest (within range) birds I have seen consistently 'killed' as in stone dead in the last few years, were shot using 28-30gram No6 fibre wad.

You can never argue with the science but people always will.

History shows that much depends on who is conducting the science, how it is conducted, and why, but I’m not disputing the science, nor what 6 shot is capable of, I’m merely pointing out that in my experience 5 shot doesn’t suffer from a lack of energy or pattern in actual field conditions on 50 yard birds.