At last our Medical experts and Journals start understanding what seemed obvious.

[RockySpears]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

More rubbish going around the net, some people will believe anything.

Who said "dictionary"?  Try the CDC definition of vaccine, not a dictionary definition of immunity,

Yours,

RS

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, ordnance said:

More rubbish going around the net, some people will believe anything. All a cunning plan by the CDC 🙄

The Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary defines immunity as “a condition of being able to resist a particular disease.” Taber’s Medical Dictionary defines it as, “Protection from diseases, [especially] from infectious diseases.” Harvard’s medical dictionary defines it as, “The body’s ability to resist infection and disease.” The Oxford Concise Medical Dictionary echoes all of them, saying immunity is “the body’s ability to resist infection.”

 

The new vaccine definition in Merriam-Webster's dictionary has two sub-definitions that elaborate on the function of a vaccine, a feature that was not present in the old definition. 

The first sub-definition addresses an "antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin)."

The second sub-definition addresses the mRNA vaccine with the definition "a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)."

 

The addition of the second clause is the change they made as per CDC reccommendations.

[ordnance]

Quote

The addition of the second clause is the change they made as per CDC reccommendations.

And ? 

[enfieldspares]

7 hours ago, RockySpears said:

So let us not treat the fat, the drunk, the overdosed, the sportsmen and women with broken bones, cluttering hospitals each Saturday and Sunday,  the car crash victims, the smokers etc etc etc.  All of these are caused by the reckless, voluntary action of an individual.

Why pick on the unvaccinated when there are so many more doing stuff that ends in hospitalisations?

 

  There are many many doctors who do  NOT agree with the current vaccination regime.  Hell, even Government doctors do not agree with universal vaccination:

"The assessment by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) is that the health benefits from vaccination are marginally greater than the potential known harms. However, the margin of benefit is considered too small to support universal vaccination of healthy 12 to 15 year olds at this time."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/jcvi-issues-updated-advice-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-aged-12-to-15

The current regime is NOT medically lead, it is Politically lead

 

  Please don't call me that, I have probably been vaccinated with more vaccines than most due to foreign travel, ad hominem attacks are really not warranted.

The current covid "vaccines" did not even warrant that description, so much so that the CDC had to change the definition of a vaccine in September 2021, so the new "treatments" could then be called vaccines.

"Before the change, the definition for “vaccination” read, “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” Now, the word “immunity” has been switched to “protection.” "

You no longer get "immunity" from a vaccine, only some level of "protection".

 

 

Thank you. I agree with nearly every word you say. I am sixty-four years old. had covid in first week of February 2021, One day of flu. Nine days of boredom. My wife and eight year old in my same household didn't catch it from me. I had my first A-Z vaccine in last day of March 2021. After three days of irregular heart beat and night sweats my GP told me to call 999 and have an ambulance take me to a coronary dependency unit as he feared an imminent stroke.

The specialist there concluded it was not in fact a stroke but a severe reaction to A-Z. He said I was  not the first and would not be the last. Nobody with Pfizer had has such reactions. I now have myocarditis from this poison that Johnson has peddled. And my wife? Double jabbed and then got covid and was quite badly. And Jethro the comedian was both double jabbed and boosted and then caught covid and died from it. It is pots and pans for Spitfires all over again.

[bigroomboy]

8 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Thank you. I agree with nearly every word you say. I am sixty-four years old. had covid in first week of February 2021, One day of flu. Nine days of boredom. My wife and eight year old in my same household didn't catch it from me. I had my first A-Z vaccine in last day of March 2021. After three days of irregular heart beat and night sweats my GP told me to call 999 and have an ambulance take me to a coronary dependency unit as he feared an imminent stroke.

The specialist there concluded it was not in fact a stroke but a severe reaction to A-Z. He said I was  not the first and would not be the last. Nobody with Pfizer had has such reactions. I now have myocarditis from this poison that Johnson has peddled. And my wife? Double jabbed and then got covid and was quite badly. And Jethro the comedian was both double jabbed and boosted and then caught covid and died from it. It is pots and pans for Spitfires all over again.

Ever considered the fact you wife may now be dead if she hadn't had the vaccine then?

I can't believe some of the drivel being touted as fact on here sometimes.

[Wymondley]

13 hours ago, bigroomboy said:

I can't believe some of the drivel being touted as fact on here sometimes.

It's certainly not limited to this thread, or even this forum.

I'm just glad we can all express an opinion, whatever that may be.

[Jim Neal]

On 15/12/2021 at 22:49, Wymondley said:

To me every unvaccinated person in hospital is an unnecessary drain on resources.

Should the NHS also say to a fat person who arrives with cardiac arrest "Sorry fatty, self-inflicted, here's a brochure for funeral plans" ?

Or to a smoker who has cancer "Self-inflicted mate, chuff off!" ?

What about someone who's severed their arm with a circular saw?

Attempted suicide?

Liver sclerosis?

 

The argument you're supporting has got more holes in it than a colander.  That sort of rhetoric is used as coercion to get people to accept the jab, it's guilt-tripping.  Is someone standing outside every chip shop on every council estate handing out leaflets shaming the evil people with unhealthy diets? 

Should hospitals have a sign over the door that reads "Only the righteous and blame-free are treated in this establishment" ??

The NHS is provided to the people of this nation without clauses, prejudice or caveats applied.  There is no selection process to determine whether or not a patient is virtuous enough to deserve treatment.  If it's wrong, they'll try to fix it no matter how or why it happened.

https://mission-statement.com/nhs/

 

 

[Lloyd90]

On 15/12/2021 at 13:03, Rob85 said:

And my understanding right from the outset when the vaccines appeared that they never stated it would stop you catching it or passing it on. Merely it would reduce your chances of catching it to a degree, would reduce your chances of having severe symptoms requiring hospitalisation and ultimately give you a better chance of surviving the virus. 

My understanding is also that peoples immune systems don't/didn't know what covid 19 is so your immune system would be playing catch up from the get go. All the vaccines were going to do is essentially show your immune system what it would be fighting so it can readily produce the required antibodies.

This pandemic will run itself out eventually, I give it another couple of years yet

 

Absolutely. 
 

My understanding is that by stopping a bad reaction it also stopped the NHS becoming overwhelmed. 
 

When Covid first hit I knew people who were fit and young (20-30’s) who were phoning 999 for an ambulance because their breathing was so bad they thought they needed an ambulance or to go to A&E, in the end then managed to get over it, but I bet the NHS 999 call centres were over run. 
 

I would bet good money that people died during covid because they couldn’t get an ambulance out fast enough, or get through to 999 fast enough, because the services were unusually busy.

 

I would again bet good money that what we saw with the impact on services being much busier was no where near as bad as it would have been if things had carried on as normal. 
 

Imagine someone having a heart attack or a stroke, phoning 999 and there’s a 45 minute wait just to speak to a call handler, because so many people are phoning in with trouble breathing?! 

 

Imagine someone cuts themselves and is bleeding out and it’s a 3 hour wait for an ambulance because they’ve got so many other people flooding into the service?! 
 

The covid deniers seem to think that the impact of this virus is almost nothing because we haven’t had hundreds of thousands of 100% fit young people dropping dead instantly in the streets. 
 

 

[al4x]

On 15/12/2021 at 23:06, Stonepark said:

Again Lies, Dam Lies and Statistics, this includes the period when there was no vaccinated population, no supposed Covid19 immunity, so the Unvaccinated figures might be representative of the data collected but only because they have stretched the period over such a long time, however they are not 'true' or representative of those who were hospitalised for Covid and not for unrelated or underlying conditions..

 

Breaking down the 33,496,  it is likely 33,200 were in hospital for Non-Covid reasons.........

 

Figures over the last few weeks give a very different answer..... and even those numbers are suspect as it is not clear what they actually went into hospital for......... nor do they show how long they stayed, what treatments they had or could have had had we competent doctors etc (could Ivermectin have prevented an overnight stay) etc etc etc

 

 

You were arguing well till you mentioned one word.  I’ve a driver who is anti vax and he used the same one.  I struggled to take him seriously after he wouldn’t get vaccinated but was willing to take effectively worm tablets bought off the internet to prevent a bad case of covid.

The main thing I am interested in is does the jab reduce transmission as well as reducing the risk of a bad case of covid.   A lot of evidence seems to suggest it does

[Stonepark]

33 minutes ago, al4x said:

You were arguing well till you mentioned one word.  I’ve a driver who is anti vax and he used the same one.  I struggled to take him seriously after he wouldn’t get vaccinated but was willing to take effectively worm tablets bought off the internet to prevent a bad case of covid.

The main thing I am interested in is does the jab reduce transmission as well as reducing the risk of a bad case of covid.   A lot of evidence seems to suggest it does

The problem is that Western Governments have not been undertaking any other treatments than "vaccination", letting people die than use off the shelf inexpensive treatments of which Ivermectin is one as it invalidates the Emergency Use Authorisation for the "vaccines".

 

India dosed it's population with Ivermectin and brought their Delta variant to a halt within 6 weeks or so, as did Peru and a number of other countries.

 

It mainly works by in the period between initial symptoms and before onset of the respiratory difficulties caused by the cytokine reaction.

 

The media potyray it is as a horse wormer to denigrate it, however Pfizer's new super 'treatment' uses the same method of action but is within patent.

 

Tell me why you think dosing yourself with an mRNA product that is not fully trialled, deadly to some. (myocarditis and pericarditis), with adverse reactions to many (Covid symptoms), needed every three months for life, causes lower 'Nucleocapsid' antibodies and does not stop transmission or infection, and for which vaccine companies have no liability, and both Western Governments are relying on secret contracts to shield from Freedom of Information on the vaccine contents and safety data is a good idea?

[Smokersmith]

Probably the data …

[al4x]

8 hours ago, Stonepark said:

The problem is that Western Governments have not been undertaking any other treatments than "vaccination", letting people die than use off the shelf inexpensive treatments of which Ivermectin is one as it invalidates the Emergency Use Authorisation for the "vaccines".

 

India dosed it's population with Ivermectin and brought their Delta variant to a halt within 6 weeks or so, as did Peru and a number of other countries.

 

It mainly works by in the period between initial symptoms and before onset of the respiratory difficulties caused by the cytokine reaction.

 

The media potyray it is as a horse wormer to denigrate it, however Pfizer's new super 'treatment' uses the same method of action but is within patent.

 

Tell me why you think dosing yourself with an mRNA product that is not fully trialled, deadly to some. (myocarditis and pericarditis), with adverse reactions to many (Covid symptoms), needed every three months for life, causes lower 'Nucleocapsid' antibodies and does not stop transmission or infection, and for which vaccine companies have no liability, and both Western Governments are relying on secret contracts to shield from Freedom of Information on the vaccine contents and safety data is a good idea?

At least you will know you won’t have worms.  I believe India stopped the trial as it wasn’t shown to be beneficial but I’m sure you will have some dubious web source that will suggest otherwise

[ordnance]

Quote

India dosed it's population with Ivermectin and brought their Delta variant to a halt within 6 weeks or so, as did Peru and a number of other countries.

Reliable source ?

Quote

The problem is that Western Governments have not been undertaking any other treatments than "vaccination", letting people die than use off the shelf inexpensive treatments of which Ivermectin.

Why would they do that ?

[al4x]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58170809.amp

[MartynGT4]

2 hours ago, al4x said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58170809.amp

Good article but no doubt someone will be along to debunk that in a bit but they won’t be able to share a peer reviewed and accepted randomised trial that supports its use either 🙄

I find it incredible that people are quick to refuse vaccines that have been properly trialled but they’re happy to take worming pills that haven’t, it makes zero sense. If Ivermectin was effective and safe in the treatment of Covid it would be prescribed, to suggest otherwise is insulting to the medical and scientific community.

[ordnance]

59 minutes ago, MartynGT4 said:

Good article but no doubt someone will be along to debunk that in a bit but they won’t be able to share a peer reviewed and accepted randomised trial that supports its use either 🙄

I find it incredible that people are quick to refuse vaccines that have been properly trialled but they’re happy to take worming pills that haven’t, it makes zero sense. If Ivermectin was effective and safe in the treatment of Covid it would be prescribed, to suggest otherwise is insulting to the medical and scientific community.

👍

Quote

Ivermectin was effective and safe in the treatment of Covid it would be prescribed, to suggest otherwise is insulting to the medical and scientific community.

Did you not know, they are all in on the cunning plan to withhold medicines and force everyone into getting a vaccine. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by ordnance

[MartynGT4]

5 minutes ago, ordnance said:

👍

Did you not know, they are all in on the cunning plan to withhold medicines and force everyone into getting a vaccine. 

🤣

[Stonepark]

40 minutes ago, ordnance said:

👍

Did you not know, they are all in on the cunning plan to withhold medicines and force everyone into getting a vaccine. 

In  order for a medicine in the UK (or Eu or USA) to be used 'off label' it effectively has to be resubmitted for full testing (not just to see if it has an effect but full health & safety studies) but as Ivermectin is "Off Patent" there is no money in it, so none of the Pharma Companies are willing to spend the money. There are trials out there being under taken but they need to be done in UK to get approval for use and there is none being undertaken openly.

Same way due to regulations you now can't site herbal remedies for medical uses as they have no 'safety studies' (including something as simple as prunes to encourge bowel movements) as no company will pay for it as no profit.

[Walker570]

On 15/12/2021 at 21:32, Stonepark said:

 

In 5 Years eveyone who has been 'jabbed' will be: -

Dead

Dying from VIAID's

Suffering from acute onset Myocarditus or

Recovered and Healthy

Take your pick!

 

I'm creeping up to 82 years and hope that in five years time I am still having a say in this argument. In the meantime I am up and about enjoying every second of what I have left.  Get a life, it aint a rhearsal.

[ordnance]

1 minute ago, Walker570 said:

I'm creeping up to 82 years and hope that in five years time I am still having a say in this argument. In the meantime I am up and about enjoying every second of what I have left.  Get a life, it aint a rhearsal.

I don't get what you mean by get a life, do people that get a vaccine not have a life. 

[Walker570]

The comments are so dreary on here sometimes I think not.

[MartynGT4]

7 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

In  order for a medicine in the UK (or Eu or USA) to be used 'off label' it effectively has to be resubmitted for full testing (not just to see if it has an effect but full health & safety studies) but as Ivermectin is "Off Patent" there is no money in it, so none of the Pharma Companies are willing to spend the money. There are trials out there being under taken but they need to be done in UK to get approval for use and there is none being undertaken openly.

Same way due to regulations you now can't site herbal remedies for medical uses as they have no 'safety studies' (including something as simple as prunes to encourge bowel movements) as no company will pay for it as no profit.

I might be wrong but I was under the impression it was still an approved anti-parasitic. If there was strong evidence it was effective in the treatment of Covid they’d find a way, trouble is nobody has proved it is have they? The steroid dexamethasone has been off-patent since 1977, it costs pennies and they’re using that! But hey, it’s all just a big pharma conspiracy to get rich and keep you sick right? 🤔 🙄

[ordnance]

Quote

The steroid dexamethasone has been off-patent since 1977, it costs pennies and they’re using that! But hey, it’s all just a big pharma conspiracy to get rich and keep you sick right? 🤔 🙄

You are letting thinking and logic get in the way of good conspiracy. 

[MartynGT4]

33 minutes ago, ordnance said:

You are letting thinking and logic get in the way of good conspiracy. 

👍🏻🤣

[serrac]

On 18/12/2021 at 08:18, Stonepark said:

India dosed it's population with Ivermectin and brought their Delta variant to a halt within 6 weeks or so, as did Peru and a number of other countries.

Not India as a whole but particular regions, notably Utter Pradesh

https://juanchamie.substack.com/p/ivermectin-in-uttar-pradesh