Old farrier Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Gas seal said: Hi tightchoke do you have to pay to shoot jays before the pheasants fly.Thanks Old Farrier it would have been cheaper to have missed them. Do any other game shooting members pay to shoot jays. I never new jays were shot during driven game shooting. it was a long time ago on a prestigious shoot To be fair the magpie was the best bird of the day Thought it was a bit off on the day however thinking about it many years later the day is usually based on a head count although I go to one that does a foot count 4 feet to a brace you’re allowed to shoot anything legal and it’s counted in the bag it soon puts you off shooting squirrels some estates request the shooting of jays or other vermin but not all they do usually count the shots into the shot count on the day so if there’s a few taking shots a pigeon it can shorten the day One estate told us in the pre shoot brief that if anyone saw a fox they would have a free day and if they shot it the team would get the day for free ill ad to this the drive had started and a couple of partridge were shot I was on the end of the line and saw the magpie flying towards my mate high but shootable I called the bird to make sure he’d seen it to be fair I hopped he would shoot and miss as it’s more fun that way as he put his gun up it turned and came down the line getting higher it came straight over me so I had to take the shot luck was with me and down it came or the boot would have been on the other foot for those interested I was using a SO5 and rc sipes on that day Edited January 21, 2022 by Old farrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 55 minutes ago, Gas seal said: Hi tightchoke do you have to pay to shoot jays before the pheasants fly. Thanks Old Farrier it would have been cheaper to have missed them. Do any other game shooting members pay to shoot jays. I never new jays were shot during driven game shooting. No, I just listen carefully at the pre shoot brief and if the Keeper wants flying vermin shot, I will happily shoot them, but NOT before the game birds are in the air. Where I shoot they are noted but not added to the days count. If I had to pay they would be left for the Beaters and the clear up days. At Catton Hall recently one of my fellow guns wanted the pigeons I had shot as he enjoyed them, but couldn't be bothered to get out and decoy them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 I do not shoot any vermin or woodpigeons on a driven day. I guarantee as I am reloading a bunch of partridges or the best cock pheasant of the day will fly by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 15 minutes ago, Walker570 said: I do not shoot any vermin or woodpigeons on a driven day. I guarantee as I am reloading a bunch of partridges or the best cock pheasant of the day will fly by. But I reload a lot quicker than you do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: But I reload a lot quicker than you do! All the world loves a smart Rs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Rim Fire said: Cant shoot them in Wales and i see loads of them i beat on one shoot in England and the landowner wont have them shot or Pigeons https://cdn.cyfoethnaturiol.cymru/media/694501/general-licence-004-english-2022.pdf You will be pleased to learn that you have been given duff information. If you refer to the GL above you will discover that it is legal to shoot Jays in Wales to conserve wild birds. Edited January 21, 2022 by WalkedUp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 7 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: No, I just listen carefully at the pre shoot brief and if the Keeper wants flying vermin shot, Correct, same for ground game. Clarify at the start of the day. If in doubt do not shoot. I have been bought a few pints by keepers for killing foxes on driven days when we (experienced guns, known to the keeper) have been told to take ground game if safe to do so. It brought a tear to my eye that a guest last week mentioned he saw two squirrels sat in the canopy during our shoot. I had instructed him not to take ground game, but free to take any gamebird he would eat or any flying vermin, he followed my instruction to the letter. I had not clarified that I considered squirrels safely in trees with the full sky behind them were to be shot. My mistake. The gun did the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas seal Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 The man who shot the jay by law has to have authority and a license. He doesn’t have to apply for the license. The license isn’t for everyone it’s for the person to kill the specific bird they have authority to kill. The man who shot the jay told the man who picked it up and killed it that it’s against the law. To me he had no license. It’s called a general license, but it’s only for the individual who uses it ,and to decide the license he needs to use and how to use it. The way l see it is a protected bird was shot and that’s not good for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 20 minutes ago, Gas seal said: The man who shot the jay by law has to have authority and a license. He doesn’t have to apply for the license. The license isn’t for everyone it’s for the person to kill the specific bird they have authority to kill. The man who shot the jay told the man who picked it up and killed it that it’s against the law. To me he had no license. It’s called a general license, but it’s only for the individual who uses it ,and to decide the license he needs to use and how to use it. The way l see it is a protected bird was shot and that’s not good for anyone. Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) I believe he was saying that the gun was in effect joking as: The gun under the GL had lawful authority to kill or take the jay. The OP, if unaware of or in breach of the conditions of the GL, did not therefore have legal authority to take or kill the jay. Edited January 21, 2022 by WalkedUp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 21, 2022 Report Share Posted January 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Gas seal said: The man who shot the jay by law has to have authority and a license. He doesn’t have to apply for the license. The license isn’t for everyone it’s for the person to kill the specific bird they have authority to kill. The man who shot the jay told the man who picked it up and killed it that it’s against the law. To me he had no license. It’s called a general license, but it’s only for the individual who uses it ,and to decide the license he needs to use and how to use it. The way l see it is a protected bird was shot and that’s not good for anyone. Sorry Gas seal - that doesn’t compute. You can shoot jays all day long if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureBoy Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Yep! Some folk need to read GL's again. Birds do nest in January. Barn owls on eggs my way and collard doves sitting on a nest in barn. NB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, NatureBoy said: Some folk need to read GL's again Again? Once would be a good start! Is it not apparent that as a nation we rely on mythology and Mums’ Net gossip to inform ourselves of the law. I had to reprimand two young architects yesterday, they had separately referenced Disability Discrimination Act in written statements. This was repealed in 2010, I.e. before they entered professional practice. I was able to publicly shame them to an appropriate level. Later in the morning I had a new client inform me they do not need planning permission for a development, that they are on site with, because of Class G of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 2015. Sadly I had to advise them that had been updated in August 2021 and now requires Prior Approval (I.e. a form of planning permission). Why refer to current legislation when you can make a guess from hearsay and long distant memories? 🤣 Edited January 22, 2022 by WalkedUp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas seal Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 There is no reference on the general license, it’s for everyone. The license sets out who can use it, where it can be used, and when it can be used. The license always refers to (you) as the license holder or user. The rest is just conditions . If the man who shot the jay was paying to shoot on the land he should know what to shoot. If the man who picks up the dead or wounded birds was employed he should have been told what birds will be shot. And treated with a bit more respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 Nope, never shoot them even though they land on my feeder's often and steal the Peanuts. There are plenty in the Woods where I shoot as there are Songbirds and, going by the increase in numbers of the latter, it's Squirrels that do far more damage to the bird population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 3 hours ago, bruno22rf said: Nope, never shoot them even though they land on my feeder's often and steal the Peanuts. There are plenty in the Woods where I shoot as there are Songbirds and, going by the increase in numbers of the latter, it's Squirrels that do far more damage to the bird population. So you haven’t noticed them emptying nests then - look harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 This is a woodie’s nest - but they’re not fussy eaters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Fellside said: So you haven’t noticed them emptying nests then - look harder. Thanks for the advice, the Woodland where I see them regularly doesn't let us shoot from March till October so I don't get in there during the nesting season. What I have noticed, without having to look particularly hard, is the huge increase in numbers and species of birds over the last 4 years of shooting Squirrels. Nuthatches and Tree Creepers are almost common this year, in comparison to 4 years ago when none had been spotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 hour ago, bruno22rf said: Thanks for the advice, the Woodland where I see them regularly doesn't let us shoot from March till October so I don't get in there during the nesting season. What I have noticed, without having to look particularly hard, is the huge increase in numbers and species of birds over the last 4 years of shooting Squirrels. Nuthatches and Tree Creepers are almost common this year, in comparison to 4 years ago when none had been spotted. Great that you’ve got more song birds and winning against the greys! If you hammer the corvids you’ll be doing even better. Strange that you can’t control vermin during the nesting season…? Pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 On 21/01/2022 at 10:23, Gas seal said: Hi tightchoke do you have to pay to shoot jays before the pheasants fly.Thanks Old Farrier it would have been cheaper to have missed them. Do any other game shooting members pay to shoot jays. I never new jays were shot during driven game shooting. While recognising that it's perfectly legal to do so, I can't help but think that it's a mistake and particularly so as the numbers involved are very small and make little or no difference in the overall scheme of things. The objective of the GLs is to permit the destruction where deemed necessary of a protected species and which we term as vermin control. A Gun with his/her kit setting out for a roost shoot or decoying pigeon/corvids is inescapably providing that service and is within both the legal conditions and spirit of the licences. Taking a pot shot at a protected species whether while one is walking up game or on a driven shoot remains within the former condition, but I'm not so sure if that applies to the latter. WJ and their like are going to want an 'in' and when you consider that this activity is somewhat pointless, I fear that this might just provide it when they decide to go again against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 Every little counts. Every gun that kills even a single jay is still helping the song bird cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 18 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: Every little counts. Every gun that kills even a single jay is still helping the song bird cause. Yep. But the jays are just one example and this applies to all species on the GLs and although, yep, at what potential cost for a relatively minor achievement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 Same could be said for each individual bird shot of any species! Even when you rack up 100 each bird makes little difference. Think it is an arbitrary distinction, 1 or 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 hour ago, wymberley said: While recognising that it's perfectly legal to do so, I can't help but think that it's a mistake and particularly so as the numbers involved are very small and make little or no difference in the overall scheme of things. The objective of the GLs is to permit the destruction where deemed necessary of a protected species and which we term as vermin control. A Gun with his/her kit setting out for a roost shoot or decoying pigeon/corvids is inescapably providing that service and is within both the legal conditions and spirit of the licences. Taking a pot shot at a protected species whether while one is walking up game or on a driven shoot remains within the former condition, but I'm not so sure if that applies to the latter. WJ and their like are going to want an 'in' and when you consider that this activity is somewhat pointless, I fear that this might just provide it when they decide to go again against us. If every pigeon shooter just shot a couple of crows each session, or one jay on a driven day, a magpie here and there etc. it absolutely makes a difference. Each time it’s one or two less and therefore positive. It could (and does) make a curlew, lapwing or fly catcher’s nest successful, where it might otherwise not have been. If you consider the cumulative effect across the UK, it is of course important. As for Wild Injustice, they will attack us what ever we do, they don’t need an excuse and we shouldn’t offer them one either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 I am sure I will not be the only one who has had a gamekeeper walk up and thank me at the end of a drive for shooting a jay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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