Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Back to the pathetic insults then ?

Did you even watch the video, before letting loose with your gob?

If no ones up for attacking Russia, whats that then , Scotch mist ? 😆
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/trains-suspended-parts-russias-belgorod-region-after-defences-shoot-down-missile-2022-10-14/
Although its debateable whether the Kerch bridge is Russia or Ukraine, and Im sure you would rather believe Russia bombed their own bridge ?

Biden has said he will annihilate Russian troops if they nuke Ukraine, but its not like the US wants to go beyond proxy war status is it , they just sell them arms ? 

Incredible naivety.
And another slack jawed slobbering attack , because you dont like the content I put up , its there for people to make their own minds up if its relevant or not.
Although Im sure you prefer the western censored stuff ,where Ukraine always wins, and the sun shines directly out of St Zelenskys  back side ? 

So are you saying that it is on the cards that NATO wants to attack Russia (and bring about the end of the world)?

You’re nuts.

And as for that Reuters article - a single missile, no suggestion who fired it, where it came from, what the intended target was or to eliminate that it was a stray from the war with Ukraine, or one of their own / a false flag. Absolute nothing bit of journalism.

Yep MAD destruction is, always has been and remains on the table but that doesn’t cater for a preemptive strike. Indeed we don’t even need to talk about it.

 

1 hour ago, Jaymo said:

Dobby has supposedly announced that mobilisation will end in two weeks! 

That’s encouraging.

I wonder if a way out for him has been found.

.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Mungler

[treetree]

6 hours ago, Mungler said:

I still love how the shills say that the US is to blame for all of this. Hilarious. Utterly bonkers.

By shills do you mean some of the most knowledgable experts in geopolitics and international affairs? This conflict was predicted a long time back. There were so many warnings, which the USA chose to ignore.

This in no way condones the invasion, which was a despicable act.

Don't go labelling others as bonkers just because of your lazy ignorance of events.

[Gordon R]

Quote

By shills do you mean some of the most knowledgable experts in geopolitics and international affairs? This conflict was predicted a long time back. There were so many warnings, which the USA chose to ignore.

Your reasoning is slightly awry. If the USA ignored the warnings predicted by "some of the most knowledgeable experts in geopolitics and international affairs" (I threw in a free correction), just how does that make them responsible? It was Russia who invaded the Ukraine, not the USA.

[mchughcb]

8 hours ago, amateur said:

I'm confused.

When did Ukraine move to the Balkans?

Or is mchughcb' s grasp of geography as tenuous as his grasp of reality.

Ukraine borders the Balkans and the Serbs are keen to kick off again. Sorry it reads that way.

[mchughcb]

12 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I repeat "What have financial refugees coming to the UK got to deal with Ukraine? No Ukrainian is being sent to Rwanda."

You are incapable of answering a simple question. I am embarrassed for you.

Ok then. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/23/ukrainians-who-come-to-uk-illegally-could-be-sent-to-rwanda-johnson-says

[Stonepark]

4 hours ago, Mungler said:

Or is it just sitting round the fire signing traditional Red Army songs with Stonepark and McLovin?

.

I'm sure the Russian Campfire No1 goes....

If Zelensky is a Nazi, clap your hands,

If Zelensky is a Nazi clap your hands,

Zelensky wants to kill your granny, whilst making lots of money

If Zelensky is a Nazi clap your hands

🤣

 

[Gordon R]

Quote

Ok then. 

Just remind me how many Ukrainians have been sent to Rwanda.

[ditchman]

51 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

I'm sure the Russian Campfire No1 goes....

If Zelensky is a Nazi, clap your hands,

If Zelensky is a Nazi clap your hands,

Zelensky wants to kill your granny, whilst making lots of money

If Zelensky is a Nazi clap your hands

🤣

 

sing that at the eurovision song contest.....and britain will end up hosting that wretched contest yet again

[mchughcb]

53 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Just remind me how many Ukrainians have been sent to Rwanda.

Who knows, the government is always quiet when they relocate refugees to other countries to avoid political fallout from ther supporters. You asked for an answer, the UK government is thinking about it, whereas the Russian government is offering them passports. 

 

[Rewulf]

4 hours ago, Mungler said:

So are you saying that it is on the cards that NATO wants to attack Russia (and bring about the end of the world)?

You’re nuts

Who said that? 

Me? No. 

The video I posted? No. 

Anyone else on this thread? No. 

So that leaves you, making stuff up, again. 

But I'm nuts? 

[Jim Neal]

233 days, 150 pages and circa 3,700 posts later......What has this topic achieved?   🙄

 

Fascinating fact: For every 1 post made in this topic there have been 24 lives lost in this war.

I remain the master statistician.

 

[mchughcb]

5 hours ago, Mungler said:

So are you saying that it is on the cards that NATO wants to attack Russia (and bring about the end of the world)?

You’re nuts.

And as for that Reuters article - a single missile, no suggestion who fired it, where it came from, what the intended target was or to eliminate that it was a stray from the war with Ukraine, or one of their own / a false flag. Absolute nothing bit of journalism.

Yep MAD destruction is, always has been and remains on the table but that doesn’t cater for a preemptive strike. Indeed we don’t even need to talk about it.

 

That’s encouraging.

I wonder if a way out for him has been found.

.

You have a short memory, the ukrainian helicopters flew over the border and destroyed a fuel depot and there have been other missiles fired. 

4 hours ago, treetree said:

By shills do you mean some of the most knowledgable experts in geopolitics and international affairs? This conflict was predicted a long time back. There were so many warnings, which the USA chose to ignore.

This in no way condones the invasion, which was a despicable act.

Don't go labelling others as bonkers just because of your lazy ignorance of events.

So lazy, can't even read a link to a declaration of war or the American invasion of Panama.

[mchughcb]

51 minutes ago, Jim Neal said:

233 days, 150 pages and circa 3,700 posts later......What has this topic achieved?   🙄

 

Fascinating fact: For every 1 post made in this topic there have been 24 lives lost in this war.

I remain the master statistician.

 

Well I certainly learned than Putin looks like Dobby and Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh.

I also learned that Zelensky is outlasting all of his western supporters in 8 months, its almost like a curse.

Putin has outlasted all of the Western Leaders in 22 years.

[Dave-G]

Re: Macron abstains from nuke response.

Macron's been trying for an European army for quite some time, now might be his time to strike as it were. IF France does a NATO breakaway this could potentially gather pace as an alliance splitter - especially if it resumes gas flow into France and best buddies Germany - then other European countries again.

Hmm... I might be wong but that leaves UK as the only other nuclear state in Europe? Just thinking out loud in case anyone thinks otherwise.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Dave-G

[mchughcb]

48 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Re: Macron abstains from nuke response.

Macron's been trying for an European army for quite some time, now might be his time to strike as it were. IF France does a NATO breakaway this could potentially gather pace as an alliance splitter - especially if it resumes gas flow into France and best buddies Germany - then other European countries again.

Hmm... I might be wong but that leaves UK as the only other nuclear state in Europe? Just thinking out loud in case anyone thinks otherwise.

I think you are right. Macron has been pushing for an EU army for some time. That would be very interesting if the EU has a proxy war without the USA in eastern europe. Zelensky needs US$5B a month just to keep his country functioning. That is a huge hole I"m not sure the citizens of the EU would be saying why are we paying for that.

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, mchughcb said:

Putin has outlasted all of the Western Leaders in 22 years.

That’s because he murders or imprisons all opposition. If we wanted that or let that happen, Blair would still be in charge of us 😆

 

3 hours ago, mchughcb said:

You have a short memory, the ukrainian helicopters flew over the border and destroyed a fuel depot and there have been other missiles fired. 

Errr the subject was NATO attacking Russia.

Russia is at war with Ukraine and whilst the Ukrainians are being restrained in their attacks on Russian soil (at the request of NATO), a minor incursion of which you describe is a natural consequence and occurrence in a state of war and Russia invading its neighbour).

 

7 hours ago, treetree said:

By shills do you mean some of the most knowledgable experts in geopolitics and international affairs?

No, I mean the unrelenting Putin apologists on here.who cannot find a single criticism to make of Putin (which is rather odd on any measure).

 

 

Stolen from elsewhere, a Ukraine update: 

 

 

Conciliatory sounding speech by Putin this evening. Listen carefully though, and it's full of absolute whoppers. One in every sentence.

He's very good. I was halfway through listening to this quietly spoken reasonable sounding man before I thought "Hang on, what did he just say?" So I listened again from the beginning looking for falsehoods, and once you do that, they are a blizzard. 

He appears to have silenced (for how long?) the nationalist loonies, and he's saying he's finished the missile strikes (he's running low).

Although some Poles (I think it was Poles, stupidly I didn't check the language) are leaking they said if he didn't stop they'd hand their vast stock of cruise missiles to Ukraine to do what they wanted with. This sounds unlikely, not least because Ukraine isn't being by any means destroyed by the missiles. And they are it, a last throw before nukes.

Putin can't take territory, he's actually losing it, and half a billion dollar's worth of missiles killed nineteen people, which is a tragedy of course, but there are 40 million Ukrainians, it'll take a while to get rid of them nineteen at a time, and caused sporadic power cuts for two days. 

Sounds like Putin wants a Winter pause so he can get his act in order and have a proper go in the Spring.

Something we have learned in the last eight months though is that Putin is a master propagandist but a terrible military strategist, not least because everyone from the toilet cleaner to the chief of staff is consumed by lies and corruption. He simply has no clue what's going on (he should have read the bloggers he's just silenced, they know, and they can't wait to tell him). It's well worth looking carefully at what Putin wants, to see whom it actually advantages.

All very interesting. Do we have another goodwill gesture coming? Russia is going to lose Kherson soon. Potentially an army goes with it. Remove army out of harm's way, call it a goodwill gesture, as opposed to a rout?

I don't know. I know this much though - I've met people like Putin before, although thank eff they weren't nuclear armed tyrants, just crooks and bullies, and I know any concession you make to them will be swallowed and expanded, and any concession they make to you will be corrupted, shrunk, redefined and eventually withdrawn. They do not negotiate in good faith, so neither can you.

 

[Jaymo]

7 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

233 days, 150 pages and circa 3,700 posts later......What has this topic achieved?   🙄

 

Fascinating fact: For every 1 post made in this topic there have been 24 lives lost in this war.

I remain the master statistician.

 

Just think how much popcorn 🍿 most of us have consumed watching this thread. 

[Gordon R]

Quote

Who knows, the government is always quiet when they relocate refugees to other countries to avoid political fallout from ther supporters. You asked for an answer, the UK government is thinking about it, whereas the Russian government is offering them passports. 

You raised that aspect and now you don't know. I asked you to support your bizarre assertion, but you can't back it up. I expect an evasive reply, which has become your norm.

[Mungler]

46 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

You raised that aspect and now you don't know. I asked you to support your bizarre assertion, but you can't back it up. I expect an evasive reply, which has become your norm.

He loves the conspiracists approach of ‘just because there’s no evidence it didn’t happen, that’s doesn’t mean it didn’t happen’. Which is of course total nonsense. Indeed, you can put forward any argument you like on that basis and without any evidence ie just make it all up. 

[Gordon R]

I had noticed the tendency, but where is the self-respect of these people? Wild assertions are bandied about, other conflicts are dragged into the debate, even though they have absolutely nothing to do with it. Russia invaded the Ukraine.

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

I had noticed the tendency, but where is the self-respect of these people? Wild assertions are bandied about, other conflicts are dragged into the debate, even though they have absolutely nothing to do with it. Russia invaded the Ukraine.

Where is the self respect of those who shout ' Putin apologist, shill, Kremlin puppet, bot , and god knows what else , up to and including questioning the sanity of those who post something they dont agree with ?
Where is the logic in arguing with those who have a different opinion, by accusing them of working with another country, to the detriment of their own.
There appears to be a trend where , something is posted, and the post is taken completely out of context, the facts twisted, the view altered to give them ammunition to further accuse the poster of 'madness' or idiocy , with further accusations of 'apologist' or 'stooge'
I can safely say , Ive never seen anything like it on PW .
Brexit got  heated, and those in favour got called nazis and uneducated, but it was amusing to be called that when the persons doing it got all slobbery mouthed over it.
Covid had similar connotations, where anyone who questioned the narrative , Mungler amongst us , got slated for being stupid, and anti vax, even accusations of killing people because of our selfish ways !

But this takes the biscuit, a country no one gave a flying fig for a year ago, and its created some truly horrible comments against members here, who have questioned the narrative.
Quite bizarre really , when the same people accusing  are steadfast proponents of free speech ?

If you dont like someones opinion, then either use the ignore function, or just dont reply.
I find it difficult to believe the plight of Ukraine feeds such strong emotions, that we are all prepared to fall out with each other, posting insulting remarks that would normally see the thread locked , and bans handed out ?

I can take as many insults as can be dished out , but it lowers the tone of the forum considerably, and demonstrates a poor version of the type of people who own and use firearms.

[clangerman]

12 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Where is the self respect of those who shout ' Putin apologist, shill, Kremlin puppet, bot , and god knows what else , up to and including questioning the sanity of those who post something they dont agree with ?
Where is the logic in arguing with those who have a different opinion, by accusing them of working with another country, to the detriment of their own.
There appears to be a trend where , something is posted, and the post is taken completely out of context, the facts twisted, the view altered to give them ammunition to further accuse the poster of 'madness' or idiocy , with further accusations of 'apologist' or 'stooge'
I can safely say , Ive never seen anything like it on PW .
Brexit got  heated, and those in favour got called nazis and uneducated, but it was amusing to be called that when the persons doing it got all slobbery mouthed over it.
Covid had similar connotations, where anyone who questioned the narrative , Mungler amongst us , got slated for being stupid, and anti vax, even accusations of killing people because of our selfish ways !

But this takes the biscuit, a country no one gave a flying fig for a year ago, and its created some truly horrible comments against members here, who have questioned the narrative.
Quite bizarre really , when the same people accusing  are steadfast proponents of free speech ?

If you dont like someones opinion, then either use the ignore function, or just dont reply.
I find it difficult to believe the plight of Ukraine feeds such strong emotions, that we are all prepared to fall out with each other, posting insulting remarks that would normally see the thread locked , and bans handed out ?

I can take as many insults as can be dished out , but it lowers the tone of the forum considerably, and demonstrates a poor version of the type of people who own and use firearms.

thread looks like a training camp for trolls I comment elsewhere not had one insult says it all 

[Gordon R]

Rewulf - let me be clear. My remarks were not aimed at you. Whilst I do disagree with a lot of what you write, amongst all the posts there is a fair amount of legitimate comment. Generally, if say something, you do back it up. Whilst I am unconvinced by all the replies, you do put in the hard yards. 

What does irk me is when someone makes a really bizarre claim and dismisses requests for evidence as "It might be true" or "It might have happened" type of reply.

You have taken some stick and dished out an equal amount. I would not wish you to change. 🙂

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Where is the self respect of those who shout ' Putin apologist, shill, Kremlin puppet, bot , and god knows what else , up to and including questioning the sanity of those who post something they dont agree with ?
Where is the logic in arguing with those who have a different opinion, by accusing them of working with another country, to the detriment of their own.
There appears to be a trend where , something is posted, and the post is taken completely out of context, the facts twisted, the view altered to give them ammunition to further accuse the poster of 'madness' or idiocy , with further accusations of 'apologist' or 'stooge'
I can safely say , Ive never seen anything like it on PW .
Brexit got  heated, and those in favour got called nazis and uneducated, but it was amusing to be called that when the persons doing it got all slobbery mouthed over it.
Covid had similar connotations, where anyone who questioned the narrative , Mungler amongst us , got slated for being stupid, and anti vax, even accusations of killing people because of our selfish ways !

But this takes the biscuit, a country no one gave a flying fig for a year ago, and its created some truly horrible comments against members here, who have questioned the narrative.
Quite bizarre really , when the same people accusing  are steadfast proponents of free speech ?

If you dont like someones opinion, then either use the ignore function, or just dont reply.
I find it difficult to believe the plight of Ukraine feeds such strong emotions, that we are all prepared to fall out with each other, posting insulting remarks that would normally see the thread locked , and bans handed out ?

I can take as many insults as can be dished out , but it lowers the tone of the forum considerably, and demonstrates a poor version of the type of people who own and use firearms.

Well said.  I don't have the word power to reply to some of the nit picking posts on here with my partial autism disadvantage. One bullish type demanded another member post up hundreds of links that would pointlessly bung up the thread because it didn't comply with his narrative.

[Mungler]

I am a massive fan of free speech and no one should be censored, banned or ‘whatever’ for their views either here or anywhere provided they are lawful.

But if you are posting abject nonsense or arguing over the colour of orange juice then don’t be surprised with the robust replies / answers you court.

If you consider the replies too robust or too hurty (notwithstanding that they are within the forum rules) then try putting on the big boy trousers.

You could also ask the mods if they will add ‘Putin sympathiser’ and ‘Kremlin shill’ to the forum rules / banned word list, but that’s changing particular aspects of the forum legislation to suppress a counter view and or to ensure some don’t have their feelings hurt. And where does that end?

As for:

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I can take as many insults as can be dished out , but it lowers the tone of the forum considerably, and demonstrates a poor version of the type of people who own and use firearms.

Really? That’s a gnats away from the ‘woah you were doing 34 mph in a 30 mph, that’s breaking the law and your ticket is in jeopardy’. Well done. And it was you of all people went there.

And I don’t care what anyone says, McHughCB has to be in the pay of the Kremlin - there’s no other rational explanation 😆 Indeed, I’d be more worried what he and others are stockpiling under their beds, waiting for the revolution and the coded ‘go’ signal from the Kremlin.