Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[timps]

40 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I think not.
Maidan was a student protest originally, do you think they envisaged a coup? 

Im not sure even the US,  feeding money into it, envisaged the result TBH.

It was the start of the coup, it is irrelevant what anyone envisaged or even what you think, you even said so yourself, “the ball was rolling and other eyes could see a prize in their grasp”  without the student protesters the ball wouldn’t have been rolling, nothing to grasp, therefore they were the start.

It’s quite simple logic, if you are to be believed, the right wing ultras jumped on the bandwagon, they didn’t start it, they, in your own words “Entered the fray”.

But it’s pointless because you will argue that you know what was in their minds and that of the USA and know for certain they never envisaged it so that discounts them even though their actions caused the coup.

I however, know exactly what started the ball rolling as do you form your previous post, which logically means it was the start.

It’s not a last word thing, it is defending my point when quoted, as I keep stating, and with you I will never get the last word.

But it is pointless as no mater what I write you will argue black is white.

Edited October 12, 2022 by timps

[Stonepark]

4 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Sounds about right to me - and why I feel both sides are about as bad as the other when the long term is taken into consideration, but I admit to not knowing the extent of Ukraine's attacks on the Donbass region from 2008.

There are no winners but to try and blame Russia for everything as some do is not an objective viewpoint.

Putin and his cronies have gotten rich over the last 20 years and may well have carried out assassinations as is alleged or made political rivals disappear, but in general they have improved things in Russia which is why they are still in power.

 

However, this is no different as to how the West operates with MI6 agents turning up in holdalls, Iranian generals being bombed in third party countries, many of the whistle blowers in the USA turning up dead having had heart attacks or car accidents (especially after having a run in with a Clinton) or the current Hunter laptop where a drug taking paedofile and his equally paedo father have been protected and an election effectively stolen by not reporting the truth at the time of discovery, dodgy voting machines and mail in voting practices, the mass murder of young people by the COVID vaccination due to adverse reactions etc etc

[Stonepark]

14 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The Kremlin must be empty, given that they’re all out and on here 😆

I am amazed that all these alternative deep thinkers can’t think beyond what Putin has told them to think, what language to now use and all the Russian propaganda.

Even on the subject of whether there’s a war going on we get repeated Kremlin speak and not the physical truth as it presents. Total brainwashing.

Ask a Ukrainian refugee though - they are probably best placed to comment and I’ll bet they’ll mention the invasion, murder of their populous, the Russian occupation and war 😆

Its only Putin who insists on not calling an invasion and occupation anything but a war.

Absoluteky bonkers. George Orwell would be proud. 

 

Zelensky rules by consensus. See all the Ukranians fighting and dying for their country and to force out the occupying Russian invaders?

 

I am amazed that all these alternative deep thinkers can’t think beyond what Western MSM has told them to think, what language to now use and all the MSM propaganda.

Even on the subject of whether there’s a war going on we get repeated MSM speak and not the physical truth as it presents. Total brainwashing.

Ask an Eastern Ukrainian refugee though - they are probably best placed to comment and I’ll bet they’ll mention the invasion, murder of their populous, the Western Ukranian Government occupation and war 😆

Its only Zelensky and MSM who insists on not calling an invasion and occupation of the Donbass by Ukranian Government anything but a war.

Absoluteky bonkers. George Orwell would be proud.

Putin rules by consensus and permission of the Russian upper and lower houses. See all the Eastern Ukranians fighting and dying for their country (Donbass) and to force out the occupying Western supported Ukranian Government invaders?

[Mungler]

8 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

I am amazed that all these alternative deep thinkers can’t think beyond what Western MSM has told them to think, what language to now use and all the MSM propaganda.

Even on the subject of whether there’s a war going on we get repeated MSM speak and not the physical truth as it presents. Total brainwashing.

Ask an Eastern Ukrainian refugee though - they are probably best placed to comment and I’ll bet they’ll mention the invasion, murder of their populous, the Western Ukranian Government occupation and war 😆

Its only Zelensky and MSM who insists on not calling an invasion and occupation of the Donbass by Ukranian Government anything but a war.

Absoluteky bonkers. George Orwell would be proud.

Putin rules by consensus and permission of the Russian upper and lower houses. See all the Eastern Ukranians fighting and dying for their country (Donbass) and to force out the occupying Western supported Ukranian Government invaders?

Just out of idle curiosity, what is your definition of a war?

[Dave-G]

6 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Just out of idle curiosity, what is your definition of a war?

You din't ask me but I thought war was two countries fighting each other - where either side attacks the others country eventually ... but Ukraine isn't attacking the country of Russia yet so does that make it a grey war? 

[welsh1]

1 hour ago, Stonepark said:

Let's talk about the illegal coup in Ukraine and the fact that since the coup took place Ukraine as it was, have not had a legally and democratically elected government of the people and as such the "separatist areas" were equally sovereign to the current "Ukranian Government" and that the invasion that the Ukranian Government had been undertaking by undertaking an illegal incursion of those seperatist areas in 2014 to 2022 is a war by the above definition.

Where was the condemnation and sanctions for the Ukranian Governments ethnic cleansing it was undertaking with its Nazi military units when they invaded the seperatist areas and what did the West do to stop them.... Nothing because it suited them.

Ukraine Government is not in a position to claim sovereignty over the separatist regions and the MSM\West knows it, but was hoping that by providing training and arms it would allow Ukranian Government to take back those areas by force and that Russia would stand aside.

As far as most of Russia, most of East Ukraine and more than a few countries around the world,  the Ukranian Government is nothing more than a totalitarian (bans opposition parties and free speech) terrorist (assassinationions, Nazi cleansing killings, bio labs) corrupt (Biden junior and others getting £millions and £billions) bullies supported by money and arms from the West run by the definition of a "Tinpot" cocaine fueled dictator and his handlers\cronies.

Zelensky and his government makes Assad, Gadaffii, and Sadam look almost normal. At least the latter were generally fighting religious fanatics within their country (and whilst not nice but could be seen from a standpoint of trying to better their country as well as their families), whilst Zelensky is simply doing the bidding of his Western handlers and his Nazi supporters for money at the end of the day.....

 

Lets talk about the invasion of ukraine by russia, and the murdering and maiming of ukraine people by russia.

Isn't it funny how some want to deflect the war that russia started against ukraine by invading, you would think they might be putin apologists.
But if you can justify the killing of civilians by an army that has invaded another country and continues to bomb the civilian population causing misery and chaos then you must have some warped mind.

[Mungler]

I’m waiting for Stonepark’s answer.

Simple enough question right?

Feel free to refer to any dictionary you fancy 🙂

This should be good….

[welsh1]

31 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

There are no winners but to try and blame Russia for everything as some do is not an objective viewpoint.
Maybe crossing the border of another country and killing their people is reason enough to blame russia and putin for the war in ukraine, i am sure the people who have died and been maimed blame putin.

Putin and his cronies have gotten rich over the last 20 years and may well have carried out assassinations as is alleged or made political rivals disappear, but in general they have improved things in Russia which is why they are still in power.
They are still in power because they  have carried out assasinations and made political opponents disappear.

Do you actually read what you are posting
 

 

 

 

[Gordon R]

Quote

You din't ask me but I thought war was two countries fighting each other - where either side attacks the others country eventually ... but Ukraine isn't attacking the country of Russia yet so does that make it a grey war? 

Got to be in the running for the dumbest post i have ever read.

[Mungler]

Oh this is good. I see them all watching, and it’s a simple enough question, but it’s only troubling if you persist on calling a war a special military operation for no other reason than because Putin says so.

Let’s open it up to the other shills and the PW floor : what is your definition of a war?

I’ll check back on this question in an hour.

That ought to give them enough time to radio Moscow for further instructions 😆😆 

 

3 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Got to be in the running for the dumbest post i have ever read.

It’s up there 😆

Edited October 12, 2022 by Mungler

[henry d]

38 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

....objective viewpoint.

Putin and his cronies have gotten rich over the last 20 years and may well have carried out assassinations as is alleged or made political rivals disappear, but in general they have improved things in Russia which is why they are still in power.

¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿???????

However, this is no different as to how the West operates with MI6 agents turning up in holdalls, Iranian generals being bombed in third party countries, many of the whistle blowers in the USA turning up dead having had heart attacks or car accidents (especially after having a run in with a Clinton) or the current Hunter laptop where a drug taking paedofile and his equally paedo father have been protected and an election effectively stolen by not reporting the truth at the time of discovery, dodgy voting machines and mail in voting practices, the mass murder of young people by the COVID vaccination due to adverse reactions etc etc

"Objective viewpoints"; interesting term I separated the two viewpoints with question marks for clarity, above them you use terms such as "may well" and "alleged" and below the question marks you don't. 

How strange!

[Stonepark]

30 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Just out of idle curiosity, what is your definition of a war?

A modern war is where two opposing sides put trained professional soldiers up against each other to determine by might (not necessarily right) as to who the winner is, such as Ukraine v Russia.

Genocide is where a professionally trained army and equipment is sent up against a civilian population or or citizen milita such as when Ukraine invaded the Donbass.

If it takes a war to prevent genocide, which do you prefer?

 

[Mungler]

2 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

A modern war is where two opposing sides put trained professional soldiers up against each other to determine by might (not necessarily right) as to who the winner is, such as Ukraine v Russia.

Genocide is where a professionally trained army and equipment is sent up against a civilian population or or citizen milita such as when Ukraine invaded the Donbass.

If it takes a war to prevent genocide, which do you prefer?

 

 

Let me help you.

‘War’ is defined as a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country.

So, there we have it (and even on your definition) Russia and Ukraine are at war.

I think we’re agreed on ‘invasion’ and that Russia has invaded Ukraine, and so to recap, following Russia invading Ukraine, a state of war exists between those countries. 

We got there in the end eh?

[henry d]

6 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

...opposing sides...

Ooh, selective wording !

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, timps said:

But it is pointless as no mater what I write you will argue black is white.

Hardly, but whatever, argue your corner as you wish, but stop saying its pointless arguing with me. 

If it's pointless, stop doing it 😂

[mchughcb]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

 

Let me help you.

‘War’ is defined as a state of armed conflict between different countries or different groups within a country.

So, there we have it (and even on your definition) Russia and Ukraine are at war.

I think we’re agreed on ‘invasion’ and that Russia has invaded Ukraine, and so to recap, following Russia invading Ukraine, a state of war exists between those countries. 

We got there in the end eh?

So every UN defned peace keeping mission that has armed personnel invading another country is actually war? Following that logic seems we have world wars breaking out all the time. I don't think so. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by mchughcb

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, mchughcb said:

peace keeping mission that has armed personnel invading another country is actually war

No - see words in bold.  How can peace keeping be war?

[mchughcb]

Why? Because the UN pats its self on the back and calls it that legally? Because according to some here any invasion, or invasion with armed personnel or invasion with armed personnel that kill civilians is war no matter what is called legally.

And here is something about the declaration of war.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war#:~:text=A declaration of war is,between two or more states.

 

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Got to be in the running for the dumbest post i have ever read.

You seem to have your rags on again. I suspect your'e gullible enough to believe everything the west says. Oh and that "i" should be "I" if your attempting to be superior.

Maybe you can offer a better definition of war - or know more about Ukraine's East attacking the separatists in the West than me, perhaps you can tell us about that rather than scoff at someone who admits he doesn't know who to believe.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Dave-G

[Stonepark]

Just now, JohnfromUK said:

No - see words in bold.  How can peace keeping be war?

Russia had a peace keeping force in the Donbass for 8 years.... Ukraine Government kept shelling them... Along with the Donbass civilians...

[mchughcb]

2 hours ago, Stonepark said:

There are no winners but to try and blame Russia for everything as some do is not an objective viewpoint.

Putin and his cronies have gotten rich over the last 20 years and may well have carried out assassinations as is alleged or made political rivals disappear, but in general they have improved things in Russia which is why they are still in power.

 

However, this is no different as to how the West operates with MI6 agents turning up in holdalls, Iranian generals being bombed in third party countries, many of the whistle blowers in the USA turning up dead having had heart attacks or car accidents (especially after having a run in with a Clinton) or the current Hunter laptop where a drug taking paedofile and his equally paedo father have been protected and an election effectively stolen by not reporting the truth at the time of discovery, dodgy voting machines and mail in voting practices, the mass murder of young people by the COVID vaccination due to adverse reactions etc etc

Of all the countries in the world it's ironic that the leader of the free world's son is caught up in dodgy gas company and bio research with 10% to the big guy.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Russia had a peace keeping force in the Donbass for 8 years

Russia shelled Donbas!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Russian_cross-border_shelling_of_Ukraine

 

[mchughcb]

Looks like it kept the peace, and they didn't need to invade.

[Mungler]

20 minutes ago, mchughcb said:

So every UN defned peace keeping mission that has armed personnel invading another country is actually war? Following that logic seems we have world wars breaking out all the time. I don't think so. 

This isn’t about the UN.

This is about your insistence of an invasion and war being a special military operation.

If you want to consider every UN mission a war or an act of war, I don’t care, fill your boots.

What we have nonetheless arrived at is a war between Russia and Ukraine resulting from Russia’s invasion of the Ukraine.

Now we’ve highlighted the utter the ridiculousness of ‘special military operation’ and debunked that daft fiction I am intrigued to know why you maintained the use of ‘special military operation’. Is that just because the Kremlin told you to?

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, Stonepark said:

There are no winners but to try and blame Russia for everything as some do is not an objective viewpoint.

Putin and his cronies have gotten rich over the last 20 years and may well have carried out assassinations as is alleged or made political rivals disappear, but in general they have improved things in Russia which is why they are still in power.

 

However, this is no different as to how the West operates with MI6 agents turning up in holdalls, Iranian generals being bombed in third party countries, many of the whistle blowers in the USA turning up dead having had heart attacks or car accidents (especially after having a run in with a Clinton) or the current Hunter laptop where a drug taking paedofile and his equally paedo father have been protected and an election effectively stolen by not reporting the truth at the time of discovery, dodgy voting machines and mail in voting practices, the mass murder of young people by the COVID vaccination due to adverse reactions etc etc

"Not an objective view point" 

Go on then, who put a gun to putins head and forced him to illegally invade Ukraine?