Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[johnphilip]

45 minutes ago, ditchman said:

yup ..its me being cynicle again...

i think the EU and Ukraine are playing a nasty little game.........let me explain

its all about Ukraine desperate to join the EU...Ukraine are happy to let us UK send them loads of serious weaponary   as we watch Macron and his EU cronies supply sweet fanny adams......well let me correct that ...i understand Macron has supplied half a dozen Howitzers and enough ammo for 2 days medium use...BUT....BUT ...the Howitzers are being rented to Ukraine..........

now we see the EU licking Ukranines bottom on therir visit...................okay lets say Ukraine is fast tracked into the EU...

when this fracas ends there is going to be alot of dosh floating about....for machinary....goods ...expertise....engineers....agric' equip.....parts for steel works...parts for factories....cement plants....it goes on..........

NOW as Ukraine will be in the EU by that time they will (as a member) will only be able to source these goods and contracts from within the EU itself..........the UK ...having done all the dirty work...will be outside the EU and will get no benifit in the rebuild programme.........................

i was watching the French news network last night...and the Italian contingent were being interviewed and they stated there and then that they would handle the rebuild of the living infrastructure.......

i fear the UK and to a certain extent the US are being taken as mugs.......

why ask yourself did Macron and other EU ministers etc go en masse to Ukraine.....certainly not to arrage arms shipments.............they have got their eye on being first in line of having access to Ukraines assetts and GDP %

as i said ...its just me being cynicle..

Would it not been easier for all if they  join  Nato

[ditchman]

11 minutes ago, johnphilip said:

Would it not been easier for all if they  join  Nato

Putin "wont allow it"..........if Ukraine did join NATO....i bet they would fully pay up and meet their commitments unlike the bloody EU spongers................that would suit the EU as it would take the ornerous duty off them to do so...(which they dont anyway)

see there is a Ukraine delegation in London today about rebuilding the country after the war.......think UK are drawing a line in the sand for the EU to see............

[johnphilip]

28 minutes ago, ditchman said:

Putin "wont allow it"..........if Ukraine did join NATO....i bet they would fully pay up and meet their commitments unlike the bloody EU spongers................that would suit the EU as it would take the ornerous duty off them to do so...(which they dont anyway)

see there is a Ukraine delegation in London today about rebuilding the country after the war.......think UK are drawing a line in the sand for the EU to see............

Simon get one of those scrotes to go and let Putins tyres down , that will sort him 😀 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

when this fracas ends there is going to be alot of dosh floating about....for machinary....goods ...expertise....engineers....agric' equip.....parts for steel works...parts for factories....cement plants....it goes on..........

NOW as Ukraine will be in the EU by that time they will (as a member) will only be able to source these goods and contracts from within the EU itself..........the UK ...having done all the dirty work...will be outside the EU and will get no benifit in the rebuild programme.........................

i was watching the French news network last night...and the Italian contingent were being interviewed and they stated there and then that they would handle the rebuild of the living infrastructure.......

i fear the UK and to a certain extent the US are being taken as mugs.......

why ask yourself did Macron and other EU ministers etc go en masse to Ukraine.....certainly not to arrage arms shipments.............they have got their eye on being first in line of having access to Ukraines assetts and GDP %

as i said ...its just me being cynicle..

Your probably bang on the money.

The Ukraine weren't allowed in because they are dodgy and everyone knows it, plus nobody wanted to upset Russia.

But when the contracts start to be handed out, then everyone will be friendly, with the Ukraine added to the failing European super state. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, johnphilip said:

Would it not been easier for all if they  join  Nato

What seems like a simple , common sense  statement, opens up a can of worms of epic proportions.

Why didnt Ukraine join NATO , or the EU , after 2014?

Why when Russian troops were massing on their 'exercise' (in my opinion , sabre rattling) did they not fast track them in then ?
Indeed , why dont they invite them in right now ? 
Would that stop further aggression ? Maybe, unless putin really doesnt care anymore, it certainly wouldnt get lost territory back, but that isnt happening anyway.
But it would stop the death and suffering of the Ukrainians.

Heres a wild one , lets talk about a cease fire, and invite the Russians AND Ukrainians to both join NATO ?
Then the Russians will have no real reason to hold parts of Ukraine for 'security reasons'

None of these things will happen, as they all end the conflict, and certain players dont want that.
Once you get your head round that, the whole thing makes a lot more sense.

War = Profit, and instability over seas creates weakness and opportunity for strategic and economic gains.
A basic knowledge of US , UK and other nations history , shows its nothing new, or even conspiratorial thinking.
Its western diplomatic doctrine , and has been for hundreds of years.

[Mungler]

6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

What seems like a simple , common sense  statement, opens up a can of worms of epic proportions.

Why didnt Ukraine join NATO , or the EU , after 2014?

Why when Russian troops were massing on their 'exercise' (in my opinion , sabre rattling) did they not fast track them in then ?
Indeed , why dont they invite them in right now ? 
Would that stop further aggression ? Maybe, unless putin really doesnt care anymore, it certainly wouldnt get lost territory back, but that isnt happening anyway.
But it would stop the death and suffering of the Ukrainians.

Heres a wild one , lets talk about a cease fire, and invite the Russians AND Ukrainians to both join NATO ?
Then the Russians will have no real reason to hold parts of Ukraine for 'security reasons'

None of these things will happen, as they all end the conflict, and certain players dont want that.
Once you get your head round that, the whole thing makes a lot more sense.

War = Profit, and instability over seas creates weakness and opportunity for strategic and economic gains.
A basic knowledge of US , UK and other nations history , shows its nothing new, or even conspiratorial thinking.
Its western diplomatic doctrine , and has been for hundreds of years.

Putin has come out again today to say that Ukraine is part of historic Russian territory and that he’s putting the empire back together Peter the Great Stylee.

And on the same day, Lavrov is saying the invasion was because of a Ukrainian security risk.

I wonder if the two of them have spoken recently? 😆😆😆

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

Putin has come out again today to say that Ukraine is part of historic Russian territory and that he’s putting the empire back together Peter the Great Stylee

I'd like to see the actual quote where he said that, western media has a bit of a habit where it attributes quotes that never actually were said. 

But I suppose its like saying Wales, Ireland and Scotland are historic English territory, it just depends how far back you want to go? 

Ukraine WAS once part of the Russian empire, but those days are gone. 

[amateur]

Yes, but Boris hasn't sent the tanks to roll into Cardiff, Edinburgh or Belfast

[ordnance]

Quote

I'd like to see the actual quote where he said that, western media has a bit of a habit where it attributes quotes that never actually were said. 

Any examples ?

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, amateur said:

Yes, but Boris hasn't sent the tanks to roll into Cardiff, Edinburgh or Belfast

Maybe not Boris. 

 

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

Any examples ?

If I thought you were genuinely interested, I'd quote some, but you like to waste people's time, so I won't bother. 

[Rewulf]

https://amp-spectator-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.spectator.co.uk/article/how-the-media-helped-drive-the-ukraine-crisis/amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16555056355958&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spectator.co.uk%2Farticle%2Fhow-the-media-helped-drive-the-ukraine-crisis

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/06/01/putin-war-ukraine-west-misconceptions/

 

[ordnance]

16 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Maybe not Boris. 

 

If I thought you were genuinely interested, I'd quote some, but you like to waste people's time, so I won't bother. 

Thought so.

[Rewulf]

14 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Thought so.

Thought you would say that , so relented, and posted 2 links after my original post last night, but you get so wrapped up in your trolling , you probably didnt notice 

[ordnance]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Thought you would say that , so relented, and posted 2 links after my original post last night, but you get so wrapped up in your trolling , you probably didnt notice 

I did read your links, but i didn't see anything in them to do with the question i asked you bellow.  Did you not understand the question ? I will help you, examples of western media you claimed   were ( attributing quotes that never actually were said ) 

 

Quote

Rewulf I'd like to see the actual quote where he said that, western media has a bit of a habit where it attributes quotes that never actually were said. 

 

Quote

Manta Any examples ?

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by ordnance

[Rewulf]

51 minutes ago, ordnance said:

did read your links, but i didn't see anything in them to do with the question i asked you bellow

Don't know why I bother.... 

Read the links again, try and digest the words... 

Just one of them, is the oft quoted 'Putin wants to bring the USSR back' something he never actually said. 

That's one example, there are plenty more, if you can be bothered to read. 

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Rewulf

[ordnance]

42 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Don't know why I bother.... 

Read the links again, try and digest the words... 

Just one of them, is the oft quoted 'Putin wants to bring the USSR back' something he never actually said. 

That's one example, there are plenty more, if you can be bothered to read. 

 

I see some say that what Putin said is / was  possibly mispresented misunderstood, not that  (  western media has a bit of a habit where it attributes quotes that never actually were said ) One example does not equate to (  western media has a bit of a habit where it attributes quotes that never actually were said ) for me, obviously it does for you. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by ordnance

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

I see some say that what Putin said is / was  possibly mispresented misunderstood, not that  (  western media has a bit of a habit where it attributes quotes that never actually were said ) One example does not equate to (  western media has a bit of a habit where it attributes quotes that never actually were said ) for me, obviously it does for you. 

You've just typed a load of gobbledygook to try and justify your error. 

There's very few on here that engage with your trolling these days. 

Try and come up with some constructive arguments, rather than just trying to ridicule. 

[Mungler]

On 17/06/2022 at 21:41, Rewulf said:

I'd like to see the actual quote where he said that, western media has a bit of a habit where it attributes quotes that never actually were said. 

But I suppose its like saying Wales, Ireland and Scotland are historic English territory, it just depends how far back you want to go? 

Ukraine WAS once part of the Russian empire, but those days are gone. 

James Kilner, Telegraph reporter, Tweets 17th June. There’s a link in there to video too. I don’t ‘do’ Twitter and struggle a bit

 

[ordnance]

22 hours ago, Rewulf said:

You've just typed a load of gobbledygook to try and justify your error. 

There's very few on here that engage with your trolling these days. 

Try and come up with some constructive arguments, rather than just trying to ridicule. 

When someone makes a statement as factual on a forum asking them for examples is not trolling, accusing them of trolling for just asking the question is. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

When someone makes a statement as factual on a forum asking them for examples is not trolling, accusing them of trolling for just asking the question is. 

Asking for examples, when you're not remotely bothered about reading them, is what? 

 

[ditchman]

Germany has finally joined the human race and delivered a number of "High teck" 150mm Howitzers to Ukraine and trained personnell........to Ukraine

hopefully they. can zero them in on the russian gun positions  and slow down the pounding of their cities

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, as if the citizens of Ukraine have had this war brought upon them by Putin's war machine going on many weeks with millions displaced, 1000s killed, cities and homes destroyed now I see Russia is stealing 1000s of tons of Ukraine wheat grain, is there no end to what Putin is doing to destroy Ukraine by any means, also it's not headline news much in UK,  if Ukraine join NATO will it be to late ? , PS , looks like Turkey wants the wheat grain to ??

Edited June 25, 2022 by oldypigeonpopper

[johnphilip]

6 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, as if the citizens of Ukraine have had this war brought upon them by Putin's war machine going on many weeks with millions displaced, 1000s killed, cities and homes destroyed now I see Russia is stealing 1000s of tons of Ukraine wheat grain, is there no end to what Putin is doing to destroy Ukraine by any means, also it's not headline news much in UK,  if Ukraine join NATO will it be to late ? , PS , looks like Turkey wants the wheat grain to ??

If you Nuke a place , you can't grow crops , 

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

if Ukraine join NATO will it be to late ?

It's already too late, you can't join NATO if you are in a conflict.

[Dave-G]

I think stealing an adversary's assets when possible is pretty standard warfare.