Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[derbyduck]

1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

Well that’s not quite as I saw it 

the people of Great Britain owned it and the government of the time managed it for the peoples benefit 

then they sold it off along with water electricity and heaven knows what else 

a government shouldn’t own anything they are just custodian until the next election 

just my view on it 

well that's your view , so if the government did not own it how come they sold it ? I'll ask Sid .

 

[Penelope]

On 16/06/2022 at 16:42, Rewulf said:

I cant agree with that, I too would like to think free thought and creativity are the future , but the evidence suggest this is being stifled, as we become more conformist and 'woke'.
As your Economist quote states, most democracies dont actually practice true democracy, we are just given the illusion our vote matters.

This is evident when you have members of the unelected elite , like Bilderberg and WEF trying to push Chinese style social credit systems and universal incomes, communist style quotes like 'You will own nothing, and you will be happy' are like something straight out of 1984.

If there is a 'good chance' of anything , its a very predictable slide away from even illusory democracy, towards that top down totalitarian , one world government nightmare.

👍

[Penelope]

On 09/07/2022 at 05:43, Mungler said:

The problem is that covid has got in the way of making Brexit work - and I make the point that Boris unlocked the UK a good 6 months in advance of the rest of the world and for that alone I’d forgive him of pretty much anything.

By now we should be a true conservative Singaporean-esque free market economy with a taxation system that gives Europe a run for its money. But no, we’re in the mud with covid, supply chain issues and now Ukraine.

For the lovers of Europe, just you wait and see what’s coming over the horizon for the euro zone when Germany ends up on its knees - that’s when the house of cards will come tumbling down. And there’s the mass migration of starving Africans about to descend on the Med countries - I don’t think the French or the Italians can take any more of that culture erosion. Everyone should read / listen to Douglas Murray’s books BTW.

Oh why is it that top of the europhile moan list is queuing at border control now - talk about first world problems 😆

Everyone should be forced to watch/listen/read to Douglas Murray.

[Penelope]

On 15/07/2022 at 20:27, Scully said:

Serious question….do you ever ever ever ever stop to think through what it is you’re about to type? 

Having been away from here for a bit, it's reassuring to know some things don't change.

[Penelope]

On 18/07/2022 at 19:51, Minky said:

 

Another couple of examples.  Do these posts look normal to anyone. On a shooting hunting forum.?

Yep, fine for the 'OFF TOPIC' section where anything other than 'untin, shootin' an' fishin are discussed.

[Mungler]

So, further gas supply cuts today, because of "maintenance".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62291458

 

"Gazprom said stopping another turbine at the Nord Stream 1 pipeline would cut daily gas production to 20%, halving the current level of supply.

The German government said there was no technical reason to limit gas supply.

It is likely to make it more difficult for EU countries to replenish their stores of gas before winter.

European Commission President, Ursula von der Leyen, has said the prospect of Russia cutting off all supplies to the EU is a "likely scenario"."

 

So, is this still Western misreporting about routine maintenance? If it was a choice between believing the Kremlin or any other news source, I'd choose David Icke over the Kremlin every day of the week 🙂

 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

So, is this still Western misreporting about routine maintenance? If it was a choice between believing the Kremlin or any other news source, I'd choose David Icke over the Kremlin every day of the week 🙂

Does it even matter , if Russia isnt sending the gas, they arent getting paid for it either, so with Russias war chest running low , thats a win for Ukraine... isnt it ?

[Mungler]

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Does it even matter , if Russia isnt sending the gas, they arent getting paid for it either, so with Russias war chest running low , thats a win for Ukraine... isnt it ?

 

You know what it's forcing the Germans to do what they should have done already and that is (1) not give Putin any money at all (2) sort their energy supplies out and get off their false green high horse.

Laughing at Trump who warned against energy dependency on Russia and crowing about your green economy when you are "off books" importing all your nasty carbon fuels from the gangster run petrol station next door is frankly nauseating.

The problem is, it's going to hit us all in the pocket and the critical events that would break the EU and which I could long see coming are now all lined up late like buses and will shortly arrive 3 abreast.

Strap in, it's going to get bumpy.

 

 

[Rewulf]

42 minutes ago, Mungler said:

You know what it's forcing the Germans to do what they should have done already and that is (1) not give Putin any money at all

Rock and a hard place, they needed gas, lovely 'clean green' gas , and no one else had it , or the delivery system in place, except Russia.
The US said they could ship it in , they dont have the ships, and the costs would have been exhorbitant, plus putting 10 ships into German ports every week in winter is hardly going with a net zero mentality.
 

42 minutes ago, Mungler said:

(2) sort their energy supplies out and get off their false green high horse.

How?
The only possibilities are the liquified option from the US , a pipeline from Norway (I dont believe Norway has the capacity either ) that doesnt exist , or a pipeline from the ME which doesnt exist, and would take 10 years to build.
Theyve taken the easiest option, keep buying from Russia, and roll out the coal trucks for that nice cheap dirty coal from Poland.
Net zero will have to wait, but at least they can blame the Russians.

42 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Laughing at Trump who warned against energy dependency on Russia and crowing about your green economy when you are "off books" importing all your nasty carbon fuels from the gangster run petrol station next door is frankly nauseating.

100%

42 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The problem is, it's going to hit us all in the pocket and the critical events that would break the EU and which I could long see coming are now all lined up late like buses and will shortly arrive 3 abreast.

Strap in, it's going to get bumpy.

Whatever happens , we are screwed Im afraid.

[Rewulf]

 

A bit more analysis on the gas situation, and a very interesting story about the Russian pilot /honeytrap thing, which actually sounds like BS , but is funny anyway.

 

[Mungler]

So, in this week’s news we have video footage of a Ukrainian POW being castrated by his Russian captors and overwhelming evidence of at least 50 Ukrainian POWs being tortured and murdered.

So, where are we on the ‘none of this happened, MSN is lying to us and it’s a NATO conspiracy?’

Oh and just to clear up the point, the reduction in supply of gas to Germany isn’t because of ‘routine maintenance’ is it?

It takes time but all the Russian lies and nonsense are unravelling in front of our eyes and those that chose to believe Kremlin propaganda unmasked for the gullible loonies we know them to be. 

[Rewulf]

34 minutes ago, Mungler said:

So, in this week’s news we have video footage of a Ukrainian POW being castrated by his Russian captors and overwhelming evidence of at least 50 Ukrainian POWs being tortured and murdered.

So, where are we on the ‘none of this happened, MSN is lying to us and it’s a NATO conspiracy?’

First Ive heard of it mentioned ?
Is it on MSN networks, Id have thought they would be loving it?

On the flip side, Im pretty sure there has been torture and mistreatment of prisoners on both sides, the only difference is , you wont get to hear about the Russian victims of such , as we dont publish 'pro Russian' news over here.

34 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Oh and just to clear up the point, the reduction in supply of gas to Germany isn’t because of ‘routine maintenance’ is it?

Yes lets clear it up.
The routine maintainance was last week, it happens every year in the summer, NO ONE disputes that.
The fact various media decided 'Russia switched off the gas !' very erroneously , was both unhelpful, and untruthful.
Did they mention the Ukrainian pipeline  never stopped pumping ? Or actually increased its pressure to try and compensate ? No.
The only reporting of this was when Kyiv reported that Russia had 'without consultation' increased gas pressure, causing a 'dangerous situation' !!

Russia has throttled back from 40% to 20% due to concerns about the turbines, as reported by Reuters.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-gas-row-deepens-gazprom-airs-new-complaints-turbine-2022-07-29/
It also seeks assurances that there wont be further issues with turbine repairs, and their returns.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-29/gazprom-sets-out-challenges-for-resuming-normal-nord-stream-flow

But I suppose it all 'Kremlin lies' and theyre just doing it because they dont need the money, and would rather bankrupt their best customers ?

 

35 minutes ago, Mungler said:

It takes time but all the Russian lies and nonsense are unravelling in front of our eyes and those that chose to believe Kremlin propaganda unmasked for the gullible loonies we know them to be. 

How are they unravelling ?
They were never any disputes about Russian lies were there ?

And Ill ask you once again , where does one view 'Kremlin propaganda' ? When Russian news sites are banned from view in this and other European countries ??

I see Zelensky got some stick this week for his Vogue cover, is his image 'unravelling' ?
Or is it another example of Kremlin propaganda and lies ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM72TWJHSsU

https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-vogue-photoshoot-war-ukraine-divides-public-russia-conflict-annie-leibovitz-1728470

 

[Gordon R]

Sadly, I do agree about the video. It isn't appropriate.

[oowee]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

So, in this week’s news we have video footage of a Ukrainian POW being castrated by his Russian captors and overwhelming evidence of at least 50 Ukrainian POWs being tortured and murdered.

So, where are we on the ‘none of this happened, MSN is lying to us and it’s a NATO conspiracy?’

Oh and just to clear up the point, the reduction in supply of gas to Germany isn’t because of ‘routine maintenance’ is it?

It takes time but all the Russian lies and nonsense are unravelling in front of our eyes and those that chose to believe Kremlin propaganda unmasked for the gullible loonies we know them to be. 

Looks likely that Russia has attempted to dispose of 50 members of Azov by burning the bodies in a prison. Red cross is asking for access but looks likely to be denied. 

[Rewulf]

28 minutes ago, oowee said:

Looks likely that Russia has attempted to dispose of 50 members of Azov by burning the bodies in a prison. Red cross is asking for access but looks likely to be denied. 

They didnt do a very good job of 'disposing' of the 75 others injured in the blast ?

Im not for one moment saying Russia might not have done it, but they are blaming it on a Ukrainian artillery attack from a HIMARS. Which is another unlikely scenario.
But then again, the Ukrainians and Russians both fight this war in the eye of the worlds media.
So did the Russians bomb their own prison to blame the Ukrainians ?
Or, did the Ukrainians bomb the prison to blame the Russians ?

The obvious assumption , which many have made, is that the Russians did it to cover up something they have done, torture, murder ect.
There are so many flaws to the thinking behind this, the first being that the west isnt going to believe a word the Russians say about it.... So why try it ?

[oowee]

10 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

They didnt do a very good job of 'disposing' of the 75 others injured in the blast ?

Im not for one moment saying Russia might not have done it, but they are blaming it on a Ukrainian artillery attack from a HIMARS. Which is another unlikely scenario.
But then again, the Ukrainians and Russians both fight this war in the eye of the worlds media.
So did the Russians bomb their own prison to blame the Ukrainians ?
Or, did the Ukrainians bomb the prison to blame the Russians ?

The obvious assumption , which many have made, is that the Russians did it to cover up something they have done, torture, murder ect.
There are so many flaws to the thinking behind this, the first being that the west isnt going to believe a word the Russians say about it.... So why try it ?

Who knows but access is denied and it 'apparently' looks like a fire rather than an explosion? 

[islandgun]

21 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

.
There are so many flaws to the thinking behind this, the first being that the west isnt going to believe a word the Russians say about it.... So why try it ?

The west didnt believe that the Skripal killers were visiting cathedral loving tourists either, but it didn't stop them claiming it

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

The west didnt believe that the Skripal killers were visiting cathedral loving tourists either, but it didn't stop them claiming it

Rewulf, interested to know what you make of the Salisbury murders? 😆

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, islandgun said:

The west didnt believe that the Skripal killers were visiting cathedral loving tourists either, but it didn't stop them claiming it

True. 

 

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Who knows but access is denied and it 'apparently' looks like a fire rather than an explosion? 

Reports from the Ukrainians {?} say the building 'just blew up' there was no 'whoosh!' of an incoming round. 

How they know this is uncertain. 

57 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Rewulf, interested to know what you make of the Salisbury murders? 😆

I've been very clear in previous threads about this. 

I won't deny there were 2 'elite' Russian operatives there on that day. But if it really was an assassination attempt, its one of the most laughable operations ever, ranking up there with Castros exploding cigar 😂🙊

I do believe there's a lot more to it than meets the eye, but we shall never know the truth, the convoluted plot, massive discrepancies, evidence popping up conveniently, and above all, what on earth was it all for? 

I still say, if they really wanted him dead, they could have just knocked on his door and shot him, they could have even hired a UK  based hitman! 

But no, let's fly 2 blokes in on a commercial flight, take trains from London to Salisbury, after having drugs and whores, carrying  bottles of nerve agent that could kill thousands, to smear it on his door that he might not even touch 🤣

Bit pathetic really. 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, islandgun said:

The west didnt believe that the Skripal killers were visiting cathedral loving tourists either, but it didn't stop them claiming it

I know! That would have been hilarious if it hasn’t been so serious! 
I recall on this very forum those who refused to believe Putin was involved! 🤪

3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

True. 

 

Reports from the Ukrainians {?} say the building 'just blew up' there was no 'whoosh!' of an incoming round. 

How they know this is uncertain. 

I've been very clear in previous threads about this. 

I won't deny there were 2 'elite' Russian operatives there on that day. But if it really was an assassination attempt, its one of the most laughable operations ever, ranking up there with Castros exploding cigar 😂🙊

I do believe there's a lot more to it than meets the eye, but we shall never know the truth, the convoluted plot, massive discrepancies, evidence popping up conveniently, and above all, what on earth was it all for? 

I still say, if they really wanted him dead, they could have just knocked on his door and shot him, they could have even hired a UK  based hitman! 

But no, let's fly 2 blokes in on a commercial flight, take trains from London to Salisbury, after having drugs and whores, carrying  bottles of nerve agent that could kill thousands, to smear it on his door that he might not even touch 🤣

Bit pathetic really. 

Yep. Pathetic. But they’re old school. They seem to be stuck in that Cold War mentality. 

[Mungler]

The very same duo of assassins have popped up elsewhere and are still active. 

I note that the standard dismissal of a lot of Russian unpleasantness is ‘it couldn’t have happened like that because that would make them really daft’. That however doesn’t take account of the actual evidence and is not a valid form of defence.

I’ve worked out that there are some people who no amount of evidence or the bleedin obvious will ever convince, they wear conspiracy and suspicion like a badge and see it absolutely everywhere and where it does not actually exist. Chem trails, the Twin Towers packed with explosive’s, lizard people, global control etc etc 

The gas supply is a good one - whilst the mainstay of the counter argument is ‘Putin wouldn’t apparently want to turn off the gas supply to his best customer and he’s not that stupid’ (which is not an argument based on any actual real ‘evidence’) we can all watch and see what’s going on. Let’s see if supply levels return to normal once we are out of this period of maintenance 😆 

.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Mungler

[ordnance]

Quote

I’ve worked out that there are some people who no amount of evidence or the bleedin obvious will ever convince, they wear conspiracy and suspicion like a badge and see it absolutely everywhere and where it does not actually exist. Chem trails, the Twin Towers packed with explosive’s, lizard people, global control etc etc 

Yeah if 100people agree on something their will always be one that disagrees, for some its just a form of attention seeking.

Quote

Definition of denialist
(Entry 1 of 2) : a person who denies the existence, truth, or validity of something despite proof or strong evidence that it is real, true, or valid : someone who practices denialism For those of us who prefer to remain based in reality the denialists represent a conundrum.

 

[Rewulf]

11 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Yeah if 100people agree on something their will always be one that disagrees, for some its just a form of attention seeking

So if 100 people agree on something, and 1 disagrees, it follows that the majority must be right, and the minority are attention seeking, no matter which party is actually right? 

Good sound logic there 😂

3 hours ago, Scully said:

. Pathetic. But they’re old school. They seem to be stuck in that Cold War mentality

I can't disagree with that TBH. 

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

Let’s see if supply levels return to normal once we are out of this period of maintenance

That would be the best course of action, rather than just making assumptions. 

[Mungler]

11 hours ago, Rewulf said:

So if 100 people agree on something, and 1 disagrees, it follows that the majority must be right, and the minority are attention seeking, no matter which party is actually right? 

And back in the real world…. what insight and wisdom does that 1 have that the 99 don’t know, don’t have access to and which is hidden from them but not the 1?

Statistically it’s more likely that the 1 has some form of mental disorder

😉

Edit 

And I see that Russia has just cut all gas supply to Latvia. Blimey, that’s some maintenance  program they have 😆

Edited July 31, 2022 by Mungler

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

Edit 

And I see that Russia has just cut all gas supply to Latvia. Blimey, that’s some maintenance  program they have 😆

ISTR reading that's been on the cards for quite some time though?

Edited July 31, 2022 by Dave-G