Home Office launches digital medical marker in England

[Conor O'Gorman]

The Home Office has launched a digital marker for firearm and shotgun certificate holders’ medical notes in England:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/strengthened-controls-to-protect-the-public-from-medically-unfit-gun-holders

BASC's response:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-responds-to-home-offices-digital-medical-marker/
 

[ditchman]

this seems a strange story..........norfolk police have been working like this for years with G.P's........i know this to be a fact as the last time i renewed my cotermious ....i spoke to Norfolk const'...about the renewal and giving my details of my doctor to the police...the ploice said itwould only take 2 days and if they heard nothing the renewal would go ahead........and my interveiw was over the phone !

[Scully]

The annoying thing is, both the police and the relevant GP’s were already aware of the problems both Atherton in Durham and that bloke in Plymouth were having, because in both cases they seized their firearms. They then handed them back. 🤷‍♂️
 

[billytheghillie]

Had this for years up here in Jockenes land. When doctor opens up your medical file, a wee red flag pops up in corner of screen indicating you have firearms/ shotguns.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, thanks for posting

[rbrowning2]

49 minutes ago, ditchman said:

this seems a strange story..........norfolk police have been working like this for years with G.P's........i know this to be a fact as the last time i renewed my cotermious ....i spoke to Norfolk const'...about the renewal and giving my details of my doctor to the police...the ploice said itwould only take 2 days and if they heard nothing the renewal would go ahead........and my interveiw was over the phone !

May be they are about to publish the report into Plymouth and will say it was not the fault of the police but the process by which gun owners with mental health problems could be alert to the police, but it cannot happen again as the Government by way of the Home Office has introduced a robust system to fix the issue. Hence taking the blame away from the police for any errors they made in plymouth. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by rbrowning2

[ditchman]

30 minutes ago, billytheghillie said:

Had this for years up here in Jockenes land. When doctor opens up your medical file, a wee red flag pops up in corner of screen indicating you have firearms/ shotguns.

andthats how it works in norfolk......the old bill issue a list of flag conditions ...metal health...medication..........if a drug issued is on the list the flag comes up and the GP notifies the police...........and they take action......

[Good shot?]

In my opinion the Doctor, assuming the patient is flagged as a firearms holder, on diagnosing or prescribing for a notifiable condition should first advise the patient to inform his FEO of the matter prior to him doing it, thus allowing the licence holder to do the right thing themselves rather than the licence owner possibly having the police turn up on their doorstep.

I am currently in the process of coterminus renewal and suspect my records may well be flagged very soon and would expect the above action to be taken.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Good shot?
Spelling?

[Gas seal]

Yes l thought if you had a certificate it was already marked up on medical forms and on vehicle registration. It seems common sense for doctors to know about patients who have guns. When l got my first police licence in 1968 my doctor signed it for me. I noticed on the government website that the name gun or firearms was changed yet again to , owning a (weapon ) that can be used with lethal outcomes. Applying for a weapons certificate is the future  may be more than a privilege. Every gun owner wants safe ownership the same as everyone else. The minister referred quite rightly to safer streets, if the same applies to driving licences then we would have safer streets, and pavements .

[wymberley]

45 minutes ago, Gas seal said:

Yes l thought if you had a certificate it was already marked up on medical forms and on vehicle registration. It seems common sense for doctors to know about patients who have guns. When l got my first police licence in 1968 my doctor signed it for me. I noticed on the government website that the name gun or firearms was changed yet again to , owning a (weapon ) that can be used with lethal outcomes. Applying for a weapons certificate is the future  may be more than a privilege. Every gun owner wants safe ownership the same as everyone else. The minister referred quite rightly to safer streets, if the same applies to driving licences then we would have safer streets, and pavements .

"I noticed on the government website that the name gun or firearms was changed yet again to , owning a (weapon ) that can be used with lethal outcomes."

Have spent ages looking but can't find that. Could you give a link, please? Someone wants their tea leaves read.

[Vince Green]

13 hours ago, Scully said:

The annoying thing is, both the police and the relevant GP’s were already aware of the problems both Atherton in Durham and that bloke in Plymouth were having, because in both cases they seized their firearms. They then handed them back. 🤷‍♂️
 

[Gas seal]

Hi wymberley it’s on the government news and communications site page 5 12th July. Dr peter Holden said it in his first paragraph. 

 

 

[Gas seal]

Hi Conor O Gorman has put a link at the top of the page for the Government News website.

[old'un]

1 hour ago, Gas seal said:

Hi Conor O Gorman has put a link at the top of the page for the Government News website.

Sorry, cannot see anywhere the word “weapon” on the link provided by Conor O’Gorman...https://www.gov.uk/government/news/strengthened-controls-to-protect-the-public-from-medically-unfit-gun-holders

[wymberley]

14 hours ago, Gas seal said:

Hi wymberley it’s on the government news and communications site page 5 12th July. Dr peter Holden said it in his first paragraph. 

 

 

Many thanks, found it having initially missed it.

Dr Peter Holden, BMA lead for firearms licensing policy and a GP in Matlock, Derbyshire, said:

As advocates for their patients and communities, family doctors support the need for scrutiny and proper safeguards when it comes to owning a weapon that can be used with lethal outcomes.

 

Long-standing BMA GP committee member re-elected after controversial election | GPonline

Edited July 16, 2022 by wymberley

[old'un]

3 hours ago, wymberley said:

Many thanks, found it having initially missed it.

Dr Peter Holden, BMA lead for firearms licensing policy and a GP in Matlock, Derbyshire, said:

As advocates for their patients and communities, family doctors support the need for scrutiny and proper safeguards when it comes to owning a weapon that can be used with lethal outcomes.

 

Long-standing BMA GP committee member re-elected after controversial election | GPonline

Sorry, all I can see in your link is an article about the controversial BMA GP committee election, have you got a direct link to this "weapon" quote?

Think you will have to hold my hand on this one as I cannot see anything about “weapons”

[wymberley]

7 hours ago, old'un said:

Sorry, all I can see in your link is an article about the controversial BMA GP committee election, have you got a direct link to this "weapon" quote?

Think you will have to hold my hand on this one as I cannot see anything about “weapons”

Oops!

My reply was in two parts.

Firstly, you'll find 'weapons' in the OP's initial link and in the first paragraph/bullet point of the piece therein by Dr Peter Holden - I too missed it.

If the good Dr wants to play dirty, then so will I. My second part relates to the possible skulduggery by perhaps the not so good Dr after all in the election mentioned - gives a possible indication of the calibre of the man.

[Gas seal]

Hi old’un wymberly has shown the part of the government news report. I’m not good with links. Dr Peter Holden BMA said about doctors patients owning weapons that can be used with lethal outcomes. From the 12th of July when we ask our doctor for a medical report will the doctor ask are you safe to have  an arsenal of weapons or are you safe to have a gun safe of sporting guns. The country had enough trouble the last time someone in government said Iraq had weapons. It’s important that license gun owners are flagged with doctors but licences for weapons is misinformed. It’s important for doctors and patients to understand what the flag is for. Maybe BASC could question this before someone changes the wording on our medical request forms.

[wymberley]

13 hours ago, Gas seal said:

Hi old’un wymberly has shown the part of the government news report. I’m not good with links. Dr Peter Holden BMA said about doctors patients owning weapons that can be used with lethal outcomes. From the 12th of July when we ask our doctor for a medical report will the doctor ask are you safe to have  an arsenal of weapons or are you safe to have a gun safe of sporting guns. The country had enough trouble the last time someone in government said Iraq had weapons. It’s important that license gun owners are flagged with doctors but licences for weapons is misinformed. It’s important for doctors and patients to understand what the flag is for. Maybe BASC could question this before someone changes the wording on our medical request forms.

I'd have more confidence in that course of action had  BASC mentioned it in their response to the HO information. We'd be better off having a crack at it ourselves. It may well be acceptable in Derbyshire, but if I asked - or told - my local Chief Constable that I was going to swap my cabinets' contents for a load of weapons instead of the existing guns my feet wouldn't touch the ground and rightly so.

[wymberley]

Let's see if that does any good: emailed the Home Office and cc the BMA with a separate email to my MP.

[WalkedUp]

This may sound naive but I am not overly fussed. I was pulled by the police on a random check on Friday whilst driving. First thing they asked was if I had any firearms in the vehicle. I said no, only a few spent cases. They then asked what I use the firearms for, I said I’ll show you and opened the boot to reveal my dog. 

If it helps them (police and doctors) feel more comfortable in their jobs then I’ve no problem. What I do have issue with is GP practices not issuing medical records promptly and zero cost. 

[Gas seal]

No one should have a problem showing the police there license or firearms. If you have issues with doctors regarding cost or time limits when asking if you are safe to use sporting firearms good luck if the doctor asks why do you want weapons and what are you going to do with them. Your vehicle will be flagged for firearms that’s why you were asked about firearms, to make sure they were secure and not loaded. I don’t know how showing a dog to the police officer explained what you use firearms for. If firearms license is changed to weapons licence they may have asked have you any weapons in your possession or a pit bull  dog in the vehicle. This bma doctor referred to firearms as weapons it’s ok to be not overly fussed about it, the same as a lot of shooters but I have done something about it as has wymberley. 

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, Gas seal said:

No one should have a problem showing the police there license or firearms. If you have issues with doctors regarding cost or time limits when asking if you are safe to use sporting firearms good luck if the doctor asks why do you want weapons and what are you going to do with them. Your vehicle will be flagged for firearms that’s why you were asked about firearms, to make sure they were secure and not loaded. I don’t know how showing a dog to the police officer explained what you use firearms for. If firearms license is changed to weapons licence they may have asked have you any weapons in your possession or a pit bull  dog in the vehicle. This bma doctor referred to firearms as weapons it’s ok to be not overly fussed about it, the same as a lot of shooters but I have done something about it as has wymberley. 

"..........., nor all thy tears wash out a word of it."

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Gas seal said:

No one should have a problem showing the police there license or firearms. If you have issues with doctors regarding cost or time limits when asking if you are safe to use sporting firearms good luck if the doctor asks why do you want weapons and what are you going to do with them. Your vehicle will be flagged for firearms that’s why you were asked about firearms, to make sure they were secure and not loaded. I don’t know how showing a dog to the police officer explained what you use firearms for. If firearms license is changed to weapons licence they may have asked have you any weapons in your possession or a pit bull  dog in the vehicle. This bma doctor referred to firearms as weapons it’s ok to be not overly fussed about it, the same as a lot of shooters but I have done something about it as has wymberley. 

Eh? Why would a GP ask you why you want weapons or firearms? 

[wymberley]

55 minutes ago, Scully said:

Eh? Why would a GP ask you why you want weapons or firearms? 

By the sound of it, it largely depends whether or not you and your GP frequent Matlock.

You could ask if this man does have an agenda:

BMA: Digital firearms marker on GP patient records is positive step but not overnight solution | Practice Business

Edited July 19, 2022 by wymberley