How Much Longer Will We Be Abel To AFFORD To Shoot Pigeons ??

[pigeon controller]

1 hour ago, marsh man said:

I fully agree with what you are saying ,  we see a lot of full sets of decoying gear on the other sales and I see a lot at the auctions I go to , a lot of people pack it in for various reasons , one could be it is not as easy as it look and it is a never ending learning curve , I look up to P C as one the top decoyer's on the forum , I don't think he would mind me saying that he knows a hell of a lot about Pigeon decoying but he will never know the lot there is to know , no one will , we still can't make out why they will decoy one day in text book fashion and then on the next day you can set up the exactly same pattern and the Pigeons will give them a wide berth , the difference with P C and someone who is fairly new to the sport will know something is not right and alter his pattern to suit and then if it is not quite right he will go a adjust it till he is happy with it , where the other person will happily sit there hopping it will get better by its self .

Also it takes a lot of time to get the land owners trust and he would be weary in letting strangers on there land with a shotgun , a lot of land I go on have been for more years than I care to remember , where I spend 99% of my time now started in 1965 when me and my brother first went beating , we then got our first day ever shooting Pheasants , or should I say shooting at Pheasants on the beaters day , we then got four Saturdays roost shooting in February , then when we first got into Pigeon decoying this was the place to get in , we must had done things right as we went wherever we asked to go , time moved on and 45 years ago a vacancy came up for a jobbing bricklayer , I applied for this job and after a few interviews I got it , I was there till I retired 15 years ago and work is just a memory , all I do now is attend all the shoots and shoot Pigeons for the rest of the year , they have been very good to me over the years and there would be a good possibility that if I could no longer afford the cartridges ect they would help me out rather than think about letting someone else to do the crop protection .

 

Very true MM

[TOPGUN749]

5 hours ago, bigroomboy said:

I plugged "cheap" £40 in 1975 into an inflation calculator and got £251 as of 2021. So we are not really that far off those levels. Remember the 70s was also tough financially with fuel and other costs. The economy is cyclic and when we go into a tougher period if feels much worse. What is clear is that we are getting less for the **** birds. On the other hand meat is far more expensive and every bird you eat is a greater saving and if you start telling people what good value shot birds are and how tasty it is the price will go up. At then end of the day we choose what we want to do and make space for it. Some years it's easier than others but overall we are far better off than in the 70s.

I rarely believe those inflation calculators,I instead think back to take home wages then and now,I find it a more accurate comparison.In 1975 a man in a typical manual/ factory job would take home circa £30 a week,today similar job £380.,making £40 equivalent to £508.In terms of buying power we are far better off now.

[bigroomboy]

Interesting. I should say in my final sentence it's says we are far better off then the 1970s. This may be true financially but it may be a different answer for quality of life.

[marsh man]

17 hours ago, TOPGUN749 said:

I rarely believe those inflation calculators,I instead think back to take home wages then and now,I find it a more accurate comparison.In 1975 a man in a typical manual/ factory job would take home circa £30 a week,today similar job £380.,making £40 equivalent to £508.In terms of buying power we are far better off now.

I agree with you, we are far better off with wages than we were in the 70s and possibly in the 80s and 90s , I was a bricklayer and the wages were pretty poor going by today's rate , buying a house and the costs that went with maintaining it left very little spare income and anything that cropped like paying my wild fowling clubs subs and my rough shoot I was in , luckily enough I could earn the two subs by going out after tea and do some building work rather that try and take it of what little money we had going spare.

With the sale of Pigeons we were on cloud nine in the 70s and I very much doubt we will ever see the likes again , Below is an advert from where I used to sell most of my Pigeons and like I said in a earlier post that we had a dozen game dealers all wanting big numbers of Pigeons and some were offering more than others to get the numbers they wanted , at the time the best I done was 40p each for fresh , some of you guys might had got more.

This advert was in the mid 70s and the cost of the Shooting Times the advert was in was 25p , if you look at the cost today , The Shooting Times the last time I gave it a look was £2.95 , this would had made Pigeons worth at today's rate well over £3.00 , whereas the last ones I took to a well known dealer was 10p , now , I don't think they are no longer taking any , my how times change  

 

[Old farrier]

It’s very hard these days with the general license/ pest control 

im happy to shoot pigeon for farmers at my cost time cartridges and fuel I also prefer to pickup fallen birds as I eat them 

now the corvids fall into a different category I can’t eat them and they create a disposal problem I still like to pick them up 

when asked about shooting them by a particular farmer I asked him if he spent time and money planting a crop that would be worth less than it cost him to put it in and harvest with a end product that was inedible 

his reply was no it’s bad business only a fool would do that and total waste of time money and effort 

With that in mind I applied the same logic to shooting his crows and rooks he came round the next day with 2 slabs of cartridges and told me to say when I had used them 

I understand it’s pest control not sport maybe I get my sport satisfaction from finding the right flight field and putting the birds into a decoy pattern 

 

[clangerman]

shotguns have been in the cabinet for mths used the air rifle yesterday cost £5 in diesel three of us doing it now and another friend about to start retailers can stick their over priced cartridges none of us are buying them 

[marsh man]

34 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

It’s very hard these days with the general license/ pest control 

im happy to shoot pigeon for farmers at my cost time cartridges and fuel I also prefer to pickup fallen birds as I eat them 

now the corvids fall into a different category I can’t eat them and they create a disposal problem I still like to pick them up 

when asked about shooting them by a particular farmer I asked him if he spent time and money planting a crop that would be worth less than it cost him to put it in and harvest with a end product that was inedible 

his reply was no it’s bad business only a fool would do that and total waste of time money and effort 

With that in mind I applied the same logic to shooting his crows and rooks he came round the next day with 2 slabs of cartridges and told me to say when I had used them 

I understand it’s pest control not sport maybe I get my sport satisfaction from finding the right flight field and putting the birds into a decoy pattern 

 

Good post O F  , We have more or less the same way of thinking when it comes to both Pigeons and Corvids , I have always been more than happy to self fund for all my Pigeon shooting and will continue to do so , having said that , I will only shoot for two or three small afternoons a week and number wise it will be twenty or under , these numbers I can cope with , many more it would get close to dumping them and as you know it something I have never done and I certainly won't start now .

With Rooks ect I have been the same , I have been given cartridges in the past when I have told the land owner that I simply couldn't afford to shoot them if I had to pay for the service , without getting into another drawn out argument , I will say quickly that my long standing land owners would never say , if you won't shoot them then I will someone who will , they will listen and more than likely say , go up the office and get a few boxes , or get some from the gun shop we deal with and put them on our bill .

Our place might be slightly difference than a smallish farm , with it being a large place it often have to pay for Pest Controllers to come on to sort the mice out in the grain stores and around the estate , when I worked there they had a self employed Pest Controller come on the place for three days every two weeks , this would be sorting out any Wasps in the rented cottages , mice , rats and Rabbits , At one time they employed a full time Warrener who done Rabbiting six months of the year with the Rabbits being his perks  and then helped the Head Gamekeeper for the other six months , when the H G had a heart problem at 67 and had to pack up work , the Warrener took over and done more keepering as the Rabbit numbers were manageable , so shooting Corvids purely as Pest Control and not sport should in my mind be paid for , or at a minimum pay for the costs involved . 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

It’s very hard these days with the general license/ pest control 

im happy to shoot pigeon for farmers at my cost time cartridges and fuel I also prefer to pickup fallen birds as I eat them 

now the corvids fall into a different category I can’t eat them and they create a disposal problem I still like to pick them up 

when asked about shooting them by a particular farmer I asked him if he spent time and money planting a crop that would be worth less than it cost him to put it in and harvest with a end product that was inedible 

his reply was no it’s bad business only a fool would do that and total waste of time money and effort 

With that in mind I applied the same logic to shooting his crows and rooks he came round the next day with 2 slabs of cartridges and told me to say when I had used them 

I understand it’s pest control not sport maybe I get my sport satisfaction from finding the right flight field and putting the birds into a decoy pattern 

 

We were out the other day on corvids over stubble. We shot a substantial bag and all were collected and then strewn in the hedge bottoms. Most are gone within days. 
I’m not sure what some expect others to do with a bag which is either inedible or for which there is no outlet. 🤷‍♂️

[TOPGUN749]

2 hours ago, marsh man said:

I agree with you, we are far better off with wages than we were in the 70s and possibly in the 80s and 90s , I was a bricklayer and the wages were pretty poor going by today's rate , buying a house and the costs that went with maintaining it left very little spare income and anything that cropped like paying my wild fowling clubs subs and my rough shoot I was in , luckily enough I could earn the two subs by going out after tea and do some building work rather that try and take it of what little money we had going spare.

With the sale of Pigeons we were on cloud nine in the 70s and I very much doubt we will ever see the likes again , Below is an advert from where I used to sell most of my Pigeons and like I said in a earlier post that we had a dozen game dealers all wanting big numbers of Pigeons and some were offering more than others to get the numbers they wanted , at the time the best I done was 40p each for fresh , some of you guys might had got more.

This advert was in the mid 70s and the cost of the Shooting Times the advert was in was 25p , if you look at the cost today , The Shooting Times the last time I gave it a look was £2.95 , this would had made Pigeons worth at today's rate well over £3.00 , whereas the last ones I took to a well known dealer was 10p , now , I don't think they are no longer taking any , my how times change  

 

I can remember seeing the ads for wood pigeons wanted in the 70’s and thinking that’s about 8x the price of a cartridge! The demand was caused by the French wanting them,but it’s all changed now,We would have to get over £2 now to equal that.

[marsh man]

48 minutes ago, TOPGUN749 said:

I can remember seeing the ads for wood pigeons wanted in the 70’s and thinking that’s about 8x the price of a cartridge! The demand was caused by the French wanting them,but it’s all changed now,We would have to get over £2 now to equal that.

It's frightening to think that the early 70s was now 50 years ago and each generation that follow the last one look at life totally different , Game in the feather is a perfect example , I know at one time Harveys the game dealer in Norwich would be at our game larder before the days shoot was even finished as they couldn't get enough and wanted them as fresh as possible , It only ever happened once but the game dealer above once paid me £5.00 for a brace of Pheasants , this would have been in October before the main game shoots started , Hares were £4 , Mallard were £1.50 ( roughly the same now )and the small ones were a pound , young English Partridges were making silly money and you could buy a good Sunday joint for the returns on the brace of young Greys , many a time I would watch the dealer open the wing to see if the end of the feathers were round or pointed , if round they were old ones and they were not worth as much as a young one , if I had took 3 or 4 with pointed wing feathers then I was in the money and a good ole bit of beef would be on the Sunday table .

Now that is all changed , on our market you used to see Pigeons , Duck and Game hanging up in the feather and you would often see a lady with her shopping in one hand and a brace of Pheasants in the other , now you cant hang them up in the butchers shop in the feather and even if you could how many now would even think about plucking a brace of birds , another problem with trying to sell Pigeons to the public is you cannot hide away the fact that they had been shot and many that are processed had got shot marks on the body for everyone to see , make you wander how long will it be before game are given a wide berth when the youngsters of today become adults 

[Krico woodcock]

I haven't seen another shooter in any of stubbles I have shot or looked into this year. Its definitely having a impact on lads, price of diesel, cartridges etc. As for price of pigeons,  in fairness, a pigeon is worth far more than 10p. I wouldn't sell them at that,  they are worth more to me for my own use than that. Only a few years ago I could get 35 cents a pigeon frozen.  Picked up from my house. It wasn't too bad. When freezer was full roughly 220/ 240 pigeons,  give them a call they would be picked up on a Tuesday. Now same lad will take them but give you nothing for them!! How come they are worth nothing now?? I know with covid a couple of years would have stalled everything,  but what's the excuse now.. I know pigeon meat is very healthy,  very versatile,  very tasty.  But one brilliant way of using volumes of pigeons up is pigeon burgers.  When I have a good day (100+) ill breast pigeons then bring all breast to a good butcher I know. So  roughly 120 pigeons breasted is roughly 10kg  of meat. That's a good bag of meat.. Anyway, butcher puts breasts along with the right amount of beef fat through mincer. Its very important to only put it through the mincer just ONCE. then mix it up well,  and then start adding a good quality burger seasoning. When all is mixed through,  start pressing out  half pounder burgers. Roughly 90 burgers to 120 pigeons, these are honestly the best tasting burgers going, and have gave them to several people to try and have been offered money by nearly everyone for more. I have no trouble putting diesel in jeep,  buying cartridges,some days I might not shoot 20 pigeons,  some days I'll shoot well treble figures,  but at this time of year pigeon shooting for me is a addiction,  and have to be at them at least once or twice a week,  would be far more only work/ family curtail a bit. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Krico woodcock

[pigeon controller]

14 hours ago, Old farrier said:

It’s very hard these days with the general license/ pest control 

im happy to shoot pigeon for farmers at my cost time cartridges and fuel I also prefer to pickup fallen birds as I eat them 

now the corvids fall into a different category I can’t eat them and they create a disposal problem I still like to pick them up 

when asked about shooting them by a particular farmer I asked him if he spent time and money planting a crop that would be worth less than it cost him to put it in and harvest with a end product that was inedible 

his reply was no it’s bad business only a fool would do that and total waste of time money and effort 

With that in mind I applied the same logic to shooting his crows and rooks he came round the next day with 2 slabs of cartridges and told me to say when I had used them 

I understand it’s pest control not sport maybe I get my sport satisfaction from finding the right flight field and putting the birds into a decoy pattern 

 

I’ve always considered corvids shooting as a lost leader to gain or maintain pigeon shooting rights, I did have one farmer give me a slab of cartridges that were left over from the farm game shoot. He informed me that they go through the books as “ Pest Control”

[Old farrier]

57 minutes ago, pigeon controller said:

I’ve always considered corvids shooting as a lost leader to gain or maintain pigeon shooting rights, I did have one farmer give me a slab of cartridges that were left over from the farm game shoot. He informed me that they go through the books as “ Pest Control”

Very valid way to look at the job 👍

if you knew the farmer I was talking about you would know why I said it to him 

 

[marsh man]

2 hours ago, pigeon controller said:

I’ve always considered corvids shooting as a lost leader to gain or maintain pigeon shooting rights, I did have one farmer give me a slab of cartridges that were left over from the farm game shoot. He informed me that they go through the books as “ Pest Control”

I am sure that is, and was the same reason that most of us shot Corvids to maintain the rights to go Pigeon shooting , and would it be fair to say , like me you have never asked to go Corvid shooting ? , I have done it , and in my early days a fair bit of shooting Corvids , but in those far off early days I was hungry to shoot whatever came my way ( a bit like some people do today ) it was also a early introduction to the art of field craft , which was a good help when the perms came rolling in to shoot Wood Pigeons , and yes like you I have been given cartridges to shoot Corvids , I do believe a lot of long standing farmers understand it is a costly exercise in shooting Corvids and because we get nothing out of it , both in sport and finance are willing to help by providing the cartridges .

One thing I would like to ask you P C is , on your travels of late ( Pigeon shooting , not on your holiday in Greece , have you noticed the amount of Pigeons shooters still shooting were less , about the same , or more ? , this could be a unfair question as we are at the time of the year when the stubble shooters are normally out in force, and once the stubble's are pulled up they go and hibernate until the same time next year .

[pigeon controller]

16 minutes ago, marsh man said:

I am sure that is, and was the same reason that most of us shot Corvids to maintain the rights to go Pigeon shooting , and would it be fair to say , like me you have never asked to go Corvid shooting ? , I have done it , and in my early days a fair bit of shooting Corvids , but in those far off early days I was hungry to shoot whatever came my way ( a bit like some people do today ) it was also a early introduction to the art of field craft , which was a good help when the perms came rolling in to shoot Wood Pigeons , and yes like you I have been given cartridges to shoot Corvids , I do believe a lot of long standing farmers understand it is a costly exercise in shooting Corvids and because we get nothing out of it , both in sport and finance are willing to help by providing the cartridges .

One thing I would like to ask you P C is , on your travels of late ( Pigeon shooting , not on your holiday in Greece , have you noticed the amount of Pigeons shooters still shooting were less , about the same , or more ? , this could be a unfair question as we are at the time of the year when the stubble shooters are normally out in force, and once the stubble's are pulled up they go and hibernate until the same time next year .

Before I left the country, I noticed an increase in the amount of shooters due to stubbles. Over the passed year it has become the fashion to have multiple shooters on the same farm at the same time. Also we have conflict of interests as we shoot for the farmer and his son also gets shooters on the farm. If we see other shooters we normally move on but inform the farmer that we have turned out to his request and other shooters are there ( guilt trip) which gives us sole rights the following weekend.

when I do meet other shooters the first question I ask is what do you do with your pigeons, mostly say I don’t shoot many and eat them which confirms they are not a threat. They will never turn out in the cold winter months. Bunny_blaster is a threat as he is getting too good!!! To his credit he obtains a lot of permissions.

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

Times are tough & old enough to know wages have risen slowly & liveing costs have skyrocketed & in the last few years the gap difference is getting wider & even quicker. Depends on income, from different conversations, people with wages of £500+ have noticed cost rises & grumble but not realy been affected, pensioners on pension credit & receiving housing benifit are better off than workers on minimum wage, I'm a pensioner but because I was stupid enough to get a private pension I get considerably less than minimum wage equivalent, no housing benifit + I pay income tax. Just to pay basic bills is a rob Peter to pay Paul situation & if I want to spend on leisure activities first I have to sell something I no longer want or need. I recon I can last a little bit longer but a race between lack of money / old age stopping me. Biggest problem ? new people getting into shooting.

[marsh man]

2 hours ago, THEINVISIBLESCARECROW said:

Times are tough & old enough to know wages have risen slowly & liveing costs have skyrocketed & in the last few years the gap difference is getting wider & even quicker. Depends on income, from different conversations, people with wages of £500+ have noticed cost rises & grumble but not realy been affected, pensioners on pension credit & receiving housing benifit are better off than workers on minimum wage, I'm a pensioner but because I was stupid enough to get a private pension I get considerably less than minimum wage equivalent, no housing benifit + I pay income tax. Just to pay basic bills is a rob Peter to pay Paul situation & if I want to spend on leisure activities first I have to sell something I no longer want or need. I recon I can last a little bit longer but a race between lack of money / old age stopping me. Biggest problem ? new people getting into shooting.

We know times are only going to get worse before they get better , me and my wife have been on the state pension for the last ten years , we got our house and finances in order well before we retired , neither of us smoke or drink and I cannot remember the last time we went on holiday , not that holidays bother me one bit .

I took up wildfowling because at the time it was free and well within walking distance , as time wore on we got into Pigeon shooting , again it was free and no more than a bike ride away , as we got better at it we soon cottoned on that the shot birds were worth selling to help or pay for the cartridges , then like everything else the basics of wild fowling and Pigeon shooting started to go up , even so it was still cheap shooting with paying my wild fowling club fees and by buying the cartridges in bulk , then just before the pandemic took a hold the cost of everything took a turn for the worse , the outlet was still there even though the price paid for the shot birds had gone down to near rock bottom , cartridges were going up every time you went to buy some , the clubs fees went over the £200 mark and then the fuel reached record level 

Yes we can still do what we like best but now it is on a lesser level and because we are only touching our savings we are not to concerned , but I wander what we will be thinking in a few months time when the lights and heating go in the middle of the afternoon .

It's early days yet but I wonder how many pubs will survive , not many by going by today's paper , again with the restaurants finding it hard with the rising costs , they also recon that households who are on average income of around £45k will feel the pinch , our combined income is below £20K and I know a good few old age pensioners who are on a lot less than that , still we have weathered a lot of lows in our life and I am sure we will weather what lies ahead , or if we can't , it wont be lack of trying . All the best    MM

 

[Gas seal]

Hi it could be not how long can we afford to shoot pigeons  but how many pigeons can we afford to shoot. Pigeon shooting has changed a lot over the years. Shooters paying a lot of money to shoot them others with (free) shooting. With little demand for shot pigeons  it doesn’t seem worthwhile trying to sell them. Today Wild Justice wrote to super markets and the game dealers regarding lead pellets in game , this would include pigeons, a lot of pigeon shooters won’t use steel or say it’s no good. If the shooters who won’t use steel stop shooting pigeons and other shooters shoot less pigeons then numbers will increase and would anyone  bother trying to sell pigeons. 

 

[marsh man]

8 hours ago, Gas seal said:

Hi it could be not how long can we afford to shoot pigeons  but how many pigeons can we afford to shoot. Pigeon shooting has changed a lot over the years. Shooters paying a lot of money to shoot them others with (free) shooting. With little demand for shot pigeons  it doesn’t seem worthwhile trying to sell them. Today Wild Justice wrote to super markets and the game dealers regarding lead pellets in game , this would include pigeons, a lot of pigeon shooters won’t use steel or say it’s no good. If the shooters who won’t use steel stop shooting pigeons and other shooters shoot less pigeons then numbers will increase and would anyone  bother trying to sell pigeons. 

 

That was more or less exactly what I said , or meant to say when I started a thread a while back about , Will the lack of demand for Pigeons increase the Wood Pigeon population ?, and that was before the lead shot in game got up and running , just an hour ago on the television they showed young Pheasants running about and a bloke holding up a cartridge while debating the risks about eating game that had been shot with lead , without a shadow of doubt we will never see the demand for game and Pigeons like we had in the ( peak ) years.

Yes Pigeons will still be shot but on a lot lesser scale than in the past , you will no doubt go back to the time when the adverts appear in the sporting magazines offering a days pigeon shooting for x number of pounds and the agent would have made good money and the buyer have had a days sport , he take what he wants and the rest of the bag is either dumped or given to the game dealer for next to nothing , or even pay him to dispose of , a bit like how the game shooting ended up today .

You will still get the ones who shoot the odd decent bag and the ones who carry on the same as they are not in a heavy pigeon populated area , but the ones who made inroads into the local population will seriously be thinking about cutting down on the numbers they shoot .

In his hey day , Archie Coates shot around 18,000 a year , there wouldn't be many around shooting those numbers , but there would be several who are in the 5 / 10 K solo shooters and what would happen to the Pigeon population if they all cut down , or even stopped all together ??

[old'un]

1 hour ago, marsh man said:

That was more or less exactly what I said , or meant to say when I started a thread a while back about , Will the lack of demand for Pigeons increase the Wood Pigeon population ?, and that was before the lead shot in game got up and running , just an hour ago on the television they showed young Pheasants running about and a bloke holding up a cartridge while debating the risks about eating game that had been shot with lead , without a shadow of doubt we will never see the demand for game and Pigeons like we had in the ( peak ) years.

Yes Pigeons will still be shot but on a lot lesser scale than in the past , you will no doubt go back to the time when the adverts appear in the sporting magazines offering a days pigeon shooting for x number of pounds and the agent would have made good money and the buyer have had a days sport , he take what he wants and the rest of the bag is either dumped or given to the game dealer for next to nothing , or even pay him to dispose of , a bit like how the game shooting ended up today .

You will still get the ones who shoot the odd decent bag and the ones who carry on the same as they are not in a heavy pigeon populated area , but the ones who made inroads into the local population will seriously be thinking about cutting down on the numbers they shoot .

In his hey day , Archie Coates shot around 18,000 a year , there wouldn't be many around shooting those numbers , but there would be several who are in the 5 / 10 K solo shooters and what would happen to the Pigeon population if they all cut down , or even stopped all together ??

Read an article about pigeon numbers and the damage done to agriculture, it suggested a number of options for keeping pigeons off target crops, one was a combination of shooting and gas guns, this combination seemed to have the desired effect of keeping birds of the target crop for longer and worked well on winter rape.

The article did go on to say that shooting seems to have little effect on the overall numbers of pigeons in the UK, if I remember correctly I think the pigeon population as remained around the same number (11 million) for the last 20-30 years.

[marsh man]

50 minutes ago, old'un said:

Read an article about pigeon numbers and the damage done to agriculture, it suggested a number of options for keeping pigeons off target crops, one was a combination of shooting and gas guns, this combination seemed to have the desired effect of keeping birds of the target crop for longer and worked well on winter rape.

The article did go on to say that shooting seems to have little effect on the overall numbers of pigeons in the UK, if I remember correctly I think the pigeon population as remained around the same number (11 million) for the last 20-30 years.

I once had the book The Wood Pigeon by R K Murton and I am sure they had a article about poking out the nests to reduce the numbers , after a while they gave it up as more and more Pigeons moved into the suburban areas , now there are nearly as many Pigeons in our gardens as there are in the countryside , you have only got to look at when the R S P B have a garden bird count and the Wood Pigeon is either well up the list or at the very top .

It also stated that the hard Winters would have more effect than any amount of shooting , now the Winters are a lot milder , or seem it , and with Rape now grown up and down the country they can easily survive the Winter , now it is easy to go through a Winter and not even see Pigeons hitting a rape field .

When Rabbits were causing problems just after the war the ministry brought out the Rabbit Clearance Society where they offered subsidized cartridges to reduce the numbers , or that was what the cartridges were meant for , then a bit later in the early 60s my brother was in Coypu Control , these were on a agricultural wage and got extra for the skins plus a little more for the last inch of the tail as a subsidy .

If now the Pigeon is classed as the number one agricultural pest and eat through £1000s if not millions of pounds worth of food stuff then is it time they brought out another scheme ? , if we are told we cannot do it for sport , then what is the point of self funding crop protection out of our own pockets ??

[old'un]

13 minutes ago, marsh man said:

I once had the book The Wood Pigeon by R K Murton and I am sure they had a article about poking out the nests to reduce the numbers , after a while they gave it up as more and more Pigeons moved into the suburban areas , now there are nearly as many Pigeons in our gardens as there are in the countryside , you have only got to look at when the R S P B have a garden bird count and the Wood Pigeon is either well up the list or at the very top .

It also stated that the hard Winters would have more effect than any amount of shooting , now the Winters are a lot milder , or seem it , and with Rape now grown up and down the country they can easily survive the Winter , now it is easy to go through a Winter and not even see Pigeons hitting a rape field .

When Rabbits were causing problems just after the war the ministry brought out the Rabbit Clearance Society where they offered subsidized cartridges to reduce the numbers , or that was what the cartridges were meant for , then a bit later in the early 60s my brother was in Coypu Control , these were on a agricultural wage and got extra for the skins plus a little more for the last inch of the tail as a subsidy .

If now the Pigeon is classed as the number one agricultural pest and eat through £1000s if not millions of pounds worth of food stuff then is it time they brought out another scheme ? , if we are told we cannot do it for sport , then what is the point of self funding crop protection out of our own pockets ??

When I was younger I used to think I was the farmers saviour….they could not do without me, could they?

That was until I called into one farm and was told “I don't like guns on the farm?”...”but thanks for letting me know, I will sort them out” the field was 40 acre of winter rape, it had a small spinney at one end where most of the pigeons were dropping into, I sat and watched the field for half an hour and they were pouring in, over the course of the winter the field ended up with two gas guns and gawd knows how many canes with bags tied to them, but I never seen another pigeon on that field all winter, with a little effort farmer can and will manage without us.

There is another thought and that's if we stop shooting pigeons there's is likely to be a growth in mechanical means of deterring pigeons, "Necessity is the mother of invention"

[Gas seal]

Poking pigeon nests was part of the rabbit clearance. It didn’t work pigeons just built another nest .Oiling eggs was the more effective as the pigeons would take longer to start another nest. Urban wood pigeon are increasing in numbers every year. I think it was when red clover wasn’t grown pigeon died in large numbers in the first winter. Mechanical pigeon deterrents will move pigeon to another crop or to another part of the crop , this could cause more damage. The best deterrent is the scary man. Most of my pigeon shooting is over growing crops. When it’s stubble it’s left to the pigeons . With pigeons they are better on stubble than growing crops. As soon as a field is cut I will shoot any rabbits at night and from tomorrow Canada geese. If the cost of shooting pigeons with shotguns is to high the answer for anyone who wants to keep shooting could be the air gun. It’s a different type of shooting and pellets cost a lot less than cartridges and no license required. 

[marsh man]

48 minutes ago, Gas seal said:

Poking pigeon nests was part of the rabbit clearance. It didn’t work pigeons just built another nest .Oiling eggs was the more effective as the pigeons would take longer to start another nest. Urban wood pigeon are increasing in numbers every year. I think it was when red clover wasn’t grown pigeon died in large numbers in the first winter. Mechanical pigeon deterrents will move pigeon to another crop or to another part of the crop , this could cause more damage. The best deterrent is the scary man. Most of my pigeon shooting is over growing crops. When it’s stubble it’s left to the pigeons . With pigeons they are better on stubble than growing crops. As soon as a field is cut I will shoot any rabbits at night and from tomorrow Canada geese. If the cost of shooting pigeons with shotguns is to high the answer for anyone who wants to keep shooting could be the air gun. It’s a different type of shooting and pellets cost a lot less than cartridges and no license required. 

These urban Pigeons are also becoming less weary than there countryside cousins , these last few days I haven't had my motor so I have been walking down the road near mine where there is still stubble on what was a Wheat field , no one shoot it as it is surrounded by house's , horses and a caravan camp , each night there is well over 100 / 150 and at 40 yds they don't even lift there heads up , at 30 yds they are on alert and the odd ones at 20 yds or nearer , these know they are safe and live in the nearby trees .

At one time it was the norm to leave Pigeons alone when on the stubble's while there was crops still to cut , and on the wild fowler's land you could only shoot Pigeons for seven days after the crop had been cut , not sure if this is still the case , but where I shoot you can shoot the stubble's as soon as the crop is off.

Touch wood we had very few Pigeons going on the grain crops while they were still standing mainly do to the long hot dry spell with very little ,if any got knocked about , they did say at one time that a Pigeon can eat it's body weight in a day and a Pigeon weigh over a pound in old money , lets just say that a pigeon eat half a pound of grain in a day so if my sums are right it would take 224 to eat a minimum of a hundred weight a day , corn was making £300 a ton which would make a cwt worth £15.00 , as they feed everyday of the week it then work out £105 every seven days , and that is only on one field and just over 200 is not that many in a good Pigeon area , add that up on fields where they are giving it some stick it would make sense if there was a scheme similar to the R C S .

I remember years ago when the Wheat down the marsh got laid most years that one Summer the Wheat got laid like a football pitch when it was in the Green milky stage , very soon the Pigeons found it , we were at work and could only shoot it at weekends and the odd day during the week , my brother worked on the dust carts at the time and had a good bit of time off and he shot it mid week , I went the odd afternoon and on a Saturday and we also went on the odd Sunday , we shot many three figure bags that added up well into four figures , we were not making much impression on the numbers and if the combine hadn't come on when it did they would had cleared the fields up , if that was now with the high price of grain it would had cost the land owner a fortune . 

[Gas seal]

Yes urban pigeons are less weary. In some areas all of the wood pigeons I shoot will be urban. Some will sit on nearby lamp posts before flying to the field. When the crops are (ready) for them to feed they feed in the tramlines even narrow tramlines. This is good for using the air gun and it’s easier to pick up the pigeons. A few local people would ask for pigeons shot with the air gun but not many ask now. This year l used non lead air gun pellets and they killed pigeons and rabbits . I use steel cartridges and they kill pigeons. I’m waiting to see if any non lead 22 rim fire come along and I will try them on pigeons. Pigeons do a lot of damage to crops that’s why I will shoot them in growing crops and leave the others on the stubble.