BASC (and other representative bodies) pointless and toothless?

[grahamch]

I am currently 13 months into my application for an FAC, in June the police said they were processing May 21 applications, I contacted them again in early September as a referee had moved house only to be told they were still doing May 21 applications and to be patient. Then this morning I had an email to say it will be some months yet before we get to applications received in September 21. 

The current situation is beyond farcical, and I really wonder why we pay fees to our so-called representative bodies, they are all ineffective and pointless in the current licensing fiasco and other than insurance cover they provide appear to very little that produces results. 

There was coverage in the sporting press lately on a BASC report on how bad they licensing system is but why waste money telling us something we already know?

High time they took legal action on a class action basis to force change but of course don't want to make the effort or rock the boat. 

My subs won't be renewed which mean that I will be dropping out of 2 clay clubs and standing down as Treasurer of my wildfowling club, all of whom insist on BASC membership.

When oh when will they provide an effective for their membership to end the current licensing farce?

 

 

 

 

 

[jall25]

Well not pointless if you need them to renew your other memberships - are you not cutting off your nose ?

I think the thing with all these organisations is they are all run by people like us - who in the vast majority of cases do their jobs the best they can 

What we as members need to do is guide them - how many of us write to them ? How many respond to their questionnaires rather than just bash them ?

Do something positive and engage would be my suggestion

8 minutes ago, grahamch said:

I am currently 13 months into my application for an FAC, in June the police said they were processing May 21 applications, I contacted them again in early September as a referee had moved house only to be told they were still doing May 21 applications and to be patient. Then this morning I had an email to say it will be some months yet before we get to applications received in September 21. 

The current situation is beyond farcical, and I really wonder why we pay fees to our so-called representative bodies, they are all ineffective and pointless in the current licensing fiasco and other than insurance cover they provide appear to very little that produces results. 

There was coverage in the sporting press lately on a BASC report on how bad they licensing system is but why waste money telling us something we already know?

High time they took legal action on a class action basis to force change but of course don't want to make the effort or rock the boat. 

My subs won't be renewed which mean that I will be dropping out of 2 clay clubs and standing down as Treasurer of my wildfowling club, all of whom insist on BASC membership.

When oh when will they provide an effective for their membership to end the current licensing farce?

 

What force are you with and have you contacted the chief constable ?

 

 

 

 

[clangerman]

the fact you have to drop out when basc could put a stop to compulsory membership tells you all you need to know about them 

[jall25]

4 minutes ago, clangerman said:

the fact you have to drop out when basc could put a stop to compulsory membership tells you all you need to know about them 

What ?

Its not BASC that has told the clay clubs or the wildfowling club they have to be members ?

If we dont support these organisations our sport will be gone as so few individuals do anything to promote or protect it 

[old'un]

6 minutes ago, clangerman said:

the fact you have to drop out when basc could put a stop to compulsory membership tells you all you need to know about them 

I think its the club insisting on BASC membership, not BASC.

1 minute ago, jall25 said:

What ?

Its not BASC that has told the clay clubs or the wildfowling club they have to be members ?

If we dont support these organisations our sport will be gone as so few individuals do anything to promote or protect it 

You beat me to it.

[jall25]

2 minutes ago, old'un said:

I think its the club insisting on BASC membership, not BASC.

You beat me to it.

They call me Young ' Un hahahahahahah

[old'un]

7 minutes ago, jall25 said:

They call me Young ' Un hahahahahahah

Yep, everything seems to pack-up when you hit 70.

I hate young people.

Edited October 7, 2022 by old'un

[Conor O'Gorman]

@grahamch

Following an evidence-led review carried out by BASC’s head of firearms, Martin Parker BASC is calling for a major overhaul of the firearms licensing service by forces in England and Wales through either the unification of licensing, as has been seen in Scotland, or the creation of an independent regulator to ensure failing forces are held to account. 

The BASC report is here:
https://basc.org.uk/download/338307/

There are 13 forces which, despite Covid, managed to turn around renewals and grants in between 38.5 and 70 days, the average being 54 days. These forces were Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Hertfordshire (the three forces combine in a consortium), Cleveland, Cheshire, Essex, Gloucestershire, Gwent, Kent, Lincolnshire, Merseyside, Thames Valley Police and Warwickshire.

If you reside in one of these areas please email your Police and Crime Commissioner, copying me in at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk congratulating your force for their service relative to the rest, requesting their support in ensuring continued efficiency and effectiveness in that service, and explaining that you will pass on any response you receive to BASC.

If you reside in any other area please email your Police and Crime Commissioner, copying me in at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk raising concerns about the resourcing and management of firearms licensing by your force relative to the rest, as detailed in BASC’s report and requesting a meeting with your PCC to discuss further. I will try to ensure that a member of the BASC team will be present at your meeting.

If you prefer, you can use the following campaign page to send an email to your PCC.

https://basc.org.uk/firearms-licensing-contact-your-police-and-crime-commissioner/
 

[jall25]

9 minutes ago, old'un said:

Yep, everything seems to pack-up when you hit 70.

I hate young people.

hahaha good man

[udderlyoffroad]

Did you actually contact BASC re your application process, or was Conor supposed to use his crystal ball?

[old'un]

10 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

@grahamch

Following an evidence-led review carried out by BASC’s head of firearms, Martin Parker BASC is calling for a major overhaul of the firearms licensing service by forces in England and Wales through either the unification of licensing, as has been seen in Scotland, or the creation of an independent regulator to ensure failing forces are held to account. 

The BASC report is here:
https://basc.org.uk/download/338307/

There are 13 forces which, despite Covid, managed to turn around renewals and grants in between 38.5 and 70 days, the average being 54 days. These forces were Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Hertfordshire (the three forces combine in a consortium), Cleveland, Cheshire, Essex, Gloucestershire, Gwent, Kent, Lincolnshire, Merseyside, Thames Valley Police and Warwickshire.

If you reside in one of these areas please email your Police and Crime Commissioner, copying me in at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk congratulating your force for their service relative to the rest, requesting their support in ensuring continued efficiency and effectiveness in that service, and explaining that you will pass on any response you receive to BASC.

If you reside in any other area please email your Police and Crime Commissioner, copying me in at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk raising concerns about the resourcing and management of firearms licensing by your force relative to the rest, as detailed in BASC’s report and requesting a meeting with your PCC to discuss further. I will try to ensure that a member of the BASC team will be present at your meeting.

If you prefer, you can use the following campaign page to send an email to your PCC.

https://basc.org.uk/firearms-licensing-contact-your-police-and-crime-commissioner/
 

Good reply, thank you.

[clangerman]

for those unable to read correctly I did NOT say basc insist on membership but could put a stop to it so would any organisation who insist on basc membership please state if you would refuse a request from basc not to make membership compulsory thank you 

Edited October 7, 2022 by clangerman
mispel

[bruno22rf]

If BASC spent less time writing reports and sitting around with it's thumb up it's own backside they wouldn't be losing thousands of members, they are a waste of Oxygen.

[Gas seal]

It was the crown estate that wanted shooters to be BASC members as part of the agreement for wildflowers to shoot over crown land . It was when firearms laws were amended, l think it was in the eighties. This was when BASC made management plans for clubs to lease land to shoot. BASC did a lot of work for clubs around the country. Crown foreshore used to be free shooting. The foreshore at Southport before it was organised had , l think it was seven wildflowers drowned in a shot time. It’s very flat and the tide would have came in behind them. 

[Scully]

55 minutes ago, clangerman said:

for those unable to read correctly I did NOT say basc insist on membership but could put a stop it so would any organisation who insist on basc membership please state if you would refuse a request from basc not to make membership compulsory thank you 

Is it just me? 🤷‍♂️

[old'un]

Just now, Scully said:

Is it just me? 🤷‍♂️

No.

[HantsRob]

2 hours ago, grahamch said:

My subs won't be renewed which mean that I will be dropping out of 2 clay clubs and standing down as Treasurer of my wildfowling club, all of whom insist on BASC membership.

 

Have you raised with the rest of the committee about a change to the intrinsic requirement for BASC, and if it's insurance to offer alternatives that may be more affordable? It would be good to know if BASC has any influence on the wildfowling permissions or any payments to the club for "support" from BASC. As treasurer though I assume you know this so if there's no inherent funding or ties to the permission, why not *be* the change?

[clangerman]

48 minutes ago, Scully said:

Is it just me? 🤷‍♂️

is there a problem or don’t you wish to find out why basc membership is made compulsory by some? 

[jall25]

1 hour ago, old'un said:

No.

100 percent No  !

 

21 minutes ago, clangerman said:

is there a problem or don’t you wish to find out why basc membership is made compulsory by some? 

Because that way you know that whoever you are shooting with is fully insured and so is the shoot ? They provide employment liability 

Are you on a wind up ?

The shoot i run stipulates membership of GWCT 

It was the BASC and they did us a good job but GWCT just fitted better

[Pushandpull]

The original problem indicated by the O.P. is that his police force licensing department is evidently under resourced and possibly the management of the post-Covid bottleneck has not been good.

However, it is hard to see what BASC or any other organisation can do about this by "legal action" or any other means.

Disaffiliation from BASC by a wildfowling club is not an easy matter, as there are matters such as bag recording, access to the Joint Tidal Group, help with management plans etc. to be considered. However, it has happened and it is probably easier for a big club with a pool of expertise and good reserves such as Kent WCA.                                         I believe that if BASC are not seen to be combative and effective against the ludicrously low and unfair limits on both range of quarry and bag numbers presently being imposed on clubs via the consenting process by Natural England then they will soon have no wildfowling members as our way of life is being choked to death.

[old'un]

37 minutes ago, clangerman said:

is there a problem or don’t you wish to find out why basc membership is made compulsory by some? 

Perhaps the small print in the BASC insurance leaves no loopholes in its cover for this type of shooting? whereas another policy from an independent may do so.

Perhaps someone from BASC could pinpoint the advantages of BASC insurance cover over other providers.

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Is it just me? 🤷‍♂️

Dropped another one.

[miki]

@jall25has hit the nail on the head here, membership of 'an organisation' means that everyone is insured to the same/acceptable standard.
I think BASC are toothless too and that they simply err on the side of self preservation and profit generation.

They are currently looking to expand their training program presumeably so they can step into any future requirement that a missguided government come up with in regards to only allowing "qualified persons" to own a gun/hunt. One of those 'guiders' (of course) being BASC themselves, how nepotistic one may think.

Edited October 7, 2022 by miki

[Penelope]

9 minutes ago, Pushandpull said:

 I believe that if BASC are not seen to be combative and effective against the ludicrously low and unfair limits on both range of quarry and bag numbers presently being imposed on clubs via the consenting process by Natural England then they will soon have no wildfowling members as our way of life is being choked to death.

Some I've heard about are ridiculous.

[Scully]

8 minutes ago, miki said:

 

They are currently looking to expand their training program presumeably so they can step into any future requirement that a missguided government come up with in regards to only allowing "qualified persons" to own a gun/hunt. One of those 'guiders' (of course) being BASC themselves, how nepotistic one may think.

Really? Got a link?