Another shotkam thread...

[Scully]

1 hour ago, TK421 said:

All good points but everyone sees lead differently. I try not to focus on lead more on gun speed which has more of an influencing factor on sight picture and perceived lead.
Gun speed and hold point. Both can be different and both can result in a hit or miss. Both with a perceived difference in lead. 

This. Some shooters with very fast swings pull the trigger the instant they catch up with the bird; they don’t see any lead at all. It’s all subjective. 

[Shotkam]

1 hour ago, TK421 said:

All good points but everyone sees lead differently. I try not to focus on lead more on gun speed which has more of an influencing factor on sight picture and perceived lead.
Gun speed and hold point. Both can be different and both can result in a hit or miss. Both with a perceived difference in lead. 

If you shoot maintained lead, which the majority of Skeet shooters do -  over the centre hoop 4ft is 4ft and as skeet is a precision discipline you need to commit the lead required for all stations to memory.

I think the original poster now knows that a Shotkam will help to improve his shooting with assistance from others.

It can also be said that it needs to be in combination with lots of practice, which also costs money and I think we can all agree practice makes perfect -  eventually, or as close as any individual can achieve to perfect.

[TK421]

54 minutes ago, Scully said:

This. Some shooters with very fast swings pull the trigger the instant they catch up with the bird; they don’t see any lead at all. It’s all subjective. 

This is what I was trying to put into words mate. Agree with this 

3 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

If you shoot maintained lead, which the majority of Skeet shooters do -  over the centre hoop 4ft is 4ft and as skeet is a precision discipline you need to commit the lead required for all stations to memory.

I think the original poster now knows that a Shotkam will help to improve his shooting with assistance from others.

It can also be said that it needs to be in combination with lots of practice, which also costs money and I think we can all agree practice makes perfect -  eventually, or as close as any individual can achieve to perfect.

Sorry missed the bit where the OP said he shoots skeet. My bad 🤷🏻‍♂️
i do however recognise that you’ve pinned your flag to the mast already with your username. Not trying to change your mind or username 😉 

[HantsRob]

Funny really but I can’t visualise when someone says shoot 3 foot ahead of a clay. 
pinch your fingers an inch apart and say give it that at 4 o’clock and I’m on it 🤪

[Gas seal]

Shooters judge lead the same as they judge range,  different. I learned about lead when ferreting ,shooting bolting rabbits running across newly drilled fields. I soon learned to get in front of them instead of dusting the ground behind them. When shooting low flying teal on high tide I shot the river behind them at first and then the teal. I don’t think we owned a camera then and never heard of a mobile phone. I was taught to keep a rifle still and a shotgun moving. With shooting moving targets it’s knowing when to shoot and reading your target. Firing at a stationary target 40 yards away will tell how long it takes for the pellets to hit the target .

[Shotkam]

30 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

Funny really but I can’t visualise when someone says shoot 3 foot ahead of a clay. 
pinch your fingers an inch apart and say give it that at 4 o’clock and I’m on it 🤪

If I go to a registered shoot, after I have seen the birds on the stand I make a plan of 1st - what method I will use to shoot them and 2nd - how much lead I will give them, be it a negative lead of say 1ft or 10ft in front. Plus of course the usual shot routine points.

Lead is not that hard to calculate as we all know the size of a standard and a midi clay etc.

If its a lost bird I have a datum point to adjust from. Dedicated clay shooters generally have a somewhat similar approach.

I can understand many general shooting people will have no interest  whatsoever in following this sort of approach to shooting.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

30 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

If I go to a registered shoot, after I have seen the birds on the stand I make a plan of 1st - what method I will use to shoot them and 2nd - how much lead I will give them, be it a negative lead of say 1ft or 10ft in front. Plus of course the usual shot routine points.

Lead is not that hard to calculate as we all know the size of a standard and a midi clay etc.

If its a lost bird I have a datum point to adjust from. Dedicated clay shooters generally have a somewhat similar approach.

I can understand many general shooting people will have no interest  whatsoever in following this sort of approach to shooting.

Please explain the term "Negative Lead"............................................😲

[London Best]

13 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Please explain the term "Negative Lead"............................................😲

Gordon Bennett!

[TK421]

26 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Please explain the term "Negative Lead"............................................😲

It’s on husthwaites latest video don’t you know 🤐

[old'un]

13 hours ago, Shotkam said:

If I go to a registered shoot, after I have seen the birds on the stand I make a plan of 1st - what method I will use to shoot them and 2nd - how much lead I will give them, be it a negative lead of say 1ft or 10ft in front. Plus of course the usual shot routine points.

Lead is not that hard to calculate as we all know the size of a standard and a midi clay etc.

If its a lost bird I have a datum point to adjust from. Dedicated clay shooters generally have a somewhat similar approach.

I can understand many general shooting people will have no interest  whatsoever in following this sort of approach to shooting.

Christ, if I applied that to live pigeon shooting I’d never get any shot, ill say it again, you all ready have the means to record the shot, memory.

[London Best]

13 hours ago, Shotkam said:

If I go to a registered shoot, after I have seen the birds on the stand I make a plan of 1st - what method I will use to shoot them and 2nd - how much lead I will give them, be it a negative lead of say 1ft or 10ft in front. Plus of course the usual shot routine points

Nowt like overthinking the job!

[Shotkam]

Shooting is such a subjective subject that people will always disagree.

Everyone seems to be happy at a different level of success when it comes to shooting, which is fair enough. Those who have really wished to improve to a higher level have generally put in a lot of time and effort to attain those levels of mastery.

The vast majority of clay shooters who are in the 90s ex. 100 will be very familiar with all the points I have raised in this thread, whereas others may consider these areas of shooting a foreign language.

You can only speak as you see things, some may find your experiences a waste of time and others may see a value.

Hopefully the original poster has found our feedback useful.

[old'un]

2 hours ago, Shotkam said:

Shooting is such a subjective subject that people will always disagree.

Everyone seems to be happy at a different level of success when it comes to shooting, which is fair enough. Those who have really wished to improve to a higher level have generally put in a lot of time and effort to attain those levels of mastery.

The vast majority of clay shooters who are in the 90s ex. 100 will be very familiar with all the points I have raised in this thread, whereas others may consider these areas of shooting a foreign language.

You can only speak as you see things, some may find your experiences a waste of time and others may see a value.

Hopefully the original poster has found our feedback useful.

Yes I understand all that about clay shooters doing this that and the other but this thread is about a shotkam and if it will help the op improve his shooting, my point is you already have the means to store the miss or hit when you pull the trigger.

Answer me this, as you most likely know, most novice shooters tend to miss behind, so how will a shotkam help the op know if the shot is behind or in front?

[Shotkam]

2 minutes ago, old'un said:

Yes I understand all that about clay shooters doing this that and the other but this thread is about a shotkam and if it will help the op improve his shooting, my point is you already have the means to store the miss or hit when you pull the trigger.

Answer me this, as you most likely know, most novice shooters tend to miss behind, so how will a shotkam help the op know if the shot is behind or in front?

 

2 minutes ago, old'un said:

Yes I understand all that about clay shooters doing this that and the other but this thread is about a shotkam and if it will help the op improve his shooting, my point is you already have the means to store the miss or hit when you pull the trigger.

Answer me this, as you most likely know, most novice shooters tend to miss behind, so how will a shotkam help the op know if the shot is behind or in front?

My advice with a person relatively new to shooting is start with the basics and learn them well, which is why I recommend starting on a Skeet layout, as the required lead for any bird doesn't change. You can hone your skills here on the fundamentals and once mastered, these can be applied to other targets.

Working on a single straightforward target, not to fast and not too far away, a novice can soon build their confidence, which is a key element of shooting well.

You only need 1 hit out of 10 targets with a ShotKam to see the required lead to break that target and how that successful kill came together.

So on Skeet, say on station 4,  if the novice shooter were try to pull the trigger at roughly the same flight point of the clay each time, they simply need to adjust the perceived lead by 1ft increments or there abouts, until a kill results, providing they are on the correct line of the clay when they review the shot.

I would place clay stacks on the ground at the hoop to demonstrate what 4ft looks like to the novice.

All this may sound clinical but it is repeatable, which is a key factor.

[retromlc]

I haven't read all the comments, but I have one and I find it helpful, I can see a consistent mistake or the way the barrels move etc, it has helped me understand my consistent mistakes so I can try to remember and out a better process in place, do I shot better, not really asi have to put it into practice, I do notice that I'm so close to hitting all if them but the little things are the misses, get one 

[Shotkam]

3 minutes ago, retromlc said:

I haven't read all the comments, but I have one and I find it helpful, I can see a consistent mistake or the way the barrels move etc, it has helped me understand my consistent mistakes so I can try to remember and out a better process in place, do I shot better, not really asi have to put it into practice, I do notice that I'm so close to hitting all if them but the little things are the misses, get one 

Ha Ha - yes so close rings a bell !

Importantly you can see trends in your shooting style, be it inconsistent mount, inconsistent line on the bird etc. i.e. constantly shooting high, speeding up your swing at the last second etc. etc. and as you say - it helps you understand how you shoot. I will always have one. 

[Westley]

4 hours ago, old'un said:

Yes I understand all that about clay shooters doing this that and the other but this thread is about a shotkam and if it will help the op improve his shooting, my point is you already have the means to store the miss or hit when you pull the trigger.

Answer me this, as you most likely know, most novice shooters tend to miss behind, so how will a shotkam help the op know if the shot is behind or in front?

A shotcam  certainly helped a friend who was struggling with peg 4 on a skeet layout.  He fitted the shotcam and ceased to miss any of the peg 4 targets, including the pairs. 

The shotcam weighs around 6 ozs. and fitted near to the muzzle it stopped him from stopping his gun  !    🙄

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, Westley said:

 

The shotcam weighs around 6 ozs. and fitted near to the muzzle it stopped him from stopping his gun  !    🙄

It astounds me that anyone learns to shoot with a 6 ounce weight near his muzzles and then removes it and expects to shoot the same.

[Westley]

50 minutes ago, London Best said:

It astounds me that anyone learns to shoot with a 6 ounce weight near his muzzles and then removes it and expects to shoot the same.

This guy has been shooting over 60 years  !    😄

[retromlc]

I have had a similar experience with the additional weight at the barrels, both my guns balance perfect on the hinge but the extra weight can help, but I don't use it every time. I agree with shotkam about seeing repeated mistakes and then I can try and be aware. 

[TK421]

The new gen4 is out as well. Now with added commentary with configurable levels of encouragement and audio prompts such as “your behind it” “your miles away” “think you chipped that one?”   You can also record your own messages such as “sun was in my eyes” “sorry did you call no bird?” “Definitely chipped that” and “can I try that bird again”   

 

 

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, TK421 said:

The new gen4 is out as well. Now with added commentary with configurable levels of encouragement and audio prompts such as “your behind it” “your miles away” “think you chipped that one?”   You can also record your own messages such as “sun was in my eyes” “sorry did you call no bird?” “Definitely chipped that” and “can I try that bird again”   

 

 

😂

[Centrepin]

16 hours ago, old'un said:

 

Answer me this, as you most likely know, most novice shooters tend to miss behind, so how will a shotkam help the op know if the shot is behind or in front?

The video can be paused to show the lead, the clay/bird, the pattern and of course where it is in relation to the miss. Clearly the picture below shows this, one of my many misses. However, can you learn from it only raises more questions.

I found Shotkam to be a better aid for recording the day to view later or show other shooting friends.  I just became fed up with the constant downloading and saving as you tend to remember the better days in other ways and forget the off form days pretty soon. Besides that £470 is a lot of money to hang off your barrels and can be better used elsewhere. 

[TK421]

2 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

The video can be paused to show the lead, the clay/bird, the pattern and of course where it is in relation to the miss. Clearly the picture below shows this, one of my many misses. However, can you learn from it only raises more questions.

I found Shotkam to be a better aid for recording the day to view later or show other shooting friends.  I just became fed up with the constant downloading and saving as you tend to remember the better days in other ways and forget the off form days pretty soon. Besides that £470 is a lot of money to hang off your barrels and can be better used elsewhere. 

👍

[retromlc]

I guess it's a personal choice thing, my nature is to analyze everything, eb if the camera shows that in general I'm just behind I will try to just push a little more lead as I never know where the shot went, I'm a fiddler with everything looking to find the best results for me, my friend in the other hand has a benilli U825?? Fully adjustable/multie choked etc, he's never touched it and just shoots the chokes that were screwed in when he bought it, it could have skeet and full for all he cares, and he's a much better shot than me, when I ask him about lead etc he just says "I dunno I just shoot at it" he's a natural and builds it all in without thinking, he's about 85% average, me I have to work very hard at everything just to be average