War declared on second home owners

[Jaymo]

2 hours ago, owain said:

Im not digging out stats for occupancy of second homes on a Saturday night, sorry 😂

Bus routes would be saved if more people actually lived in these areas, old and young people who can’t drive would use them, although I agree, the double council tax won’t save them. 
 

And perhaps in your local village community, less people would have to travel to attend outlying village schools if they could afford to live in the villages themselves. 

They can afford to live here, house prices are cheaper than the City- boom, there goes your argument!!!!

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Quite simply, we do not have a conservative government. They seem hell bent on punishing those with money, for the mistakes made by government.

The double Council Tax isn’t instigated by the Government. 

[owain]

9 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

They can afford to live here, house prices are cheaper than the City- boom, there goes your argument!!!!

 

Think you’ve misunderstood what I was saying, but yeah if you say so 😂😂

[Newbie to this]

17 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

The double Council Tax isn’t instigated by the Government. 

I thought government dictates what a local council can charge.

[Jaymo]

26 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I thought government dictates what a local council can charge.

I do believe that Local Councils have been given the mandate from 2024, to set their own levy’s. Totally different from it being a Government set levy. 
 

These local Councils are not obliged to impose the levy, unlike if it was a Government piece of legislation. 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, owain said:

The world is a very different place now though to what it was 40 years ago. Patterdale to Penrith would barely count as a commute these days, the internet means people can work from home easily. 
Houses are being built on green field sites all around Carlisle and Penrith, those council houses in glennriding would be decent commuter homes rather than holiday lets or second homes. 

Must have been asking too much for it. 

It wasn’t much of a commute 40 years ago either to be honest, but there needs to be work to commute to, and the big employers aren’t here anymore.
You need reliable internet to work from home ( a lack of consistency is a common complaint ) and a 4x4 often comes in handy in winter if you can’t. 
The amount of building going on in and around Penrith is tremendous, and in Carlisle and Lancaster, but they’re not being built as second homes. 

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

There is a row of former council houses in the village of Glenridding, just before you get to Patterdale. Like many Lakeland villages there is no work unless you’re a farmer, self employed or want to go into the tourism business, the latter of which is minimum wage for maximum hours. 
Back in the early ‘80’s I worked with a lad who told me everyone he knew of his age was moving out of Glenridding and similar villages to find jobs in towns such as Penrith and Kendal and even Carlisle and Lancaster because there was no choice if you wanted good money. They never went back, which meant those council houses and others like them were sold after being inherited, and apparently most went as second homes, or holiday homes as they’re more commonly known. 
It’s fine doubling the council tax but it won’t bring back locals to live in those houses if there’s no jobs, and there’s even less now around here than there was in the 1980’s. 
The BIG houses owned as second homes by the wealthy, will still be owned by those wealthy, and even those that are sold won’t be bought by the average local because they can’t afford them. 

 

This is it, there will be loads of second homes in the Lakes, but there won't be loads of jobs, most jobs are often seasonal or low paid hospitality jobs,  so those people won't be able to afford the type of house that attract second homers. 

2 hours ago, owain said:

The world is a very different place now though to what it was 40 years ago. Patterdale to Penrith would barely count as a commute these days, the internet means people can work from home easily. 
Houses are being built on green field sites all around Carlisle and Penrith, those council houses in glennriding would be decent commuter homes rather than holiday lets or second homes. 

It certainly is different,  but those new houses will have better facilities,  easier commutes and more going on, just what young families will want.

A lot of area's where second homes are prevalent just don't have enough industry anymore,  who goes to live in an area these days wanting to farm or fish?

 

[owain]

8 minutes ago, Scully said:

It wasn’t much of a commute 40 years ago either to be honest, but there needs to be work to commute to, and the big employers aren’t here anymore.
You need reliable internet to work from home ( a lack of consistency is a common complaint ) and a 4x4 often comes in handy in winter if you can’t. 
The amount of building going on in and around Penrith is tremendous, and in Carlisle and Lancaster, but they’re not being built as second homes. 

A lot of the houses in new build estates are second home/ buy to lets. A lad I know supplies and fits white goods, he was saying he rarely sees the new owners. Just agents acting on their behalf. 

[Jaymo]

3 minutes ago, owain said:

A lot of the houses in new build estates are second home/ buy to lets. A lad I know supplies and fits white goods, he was saying he rarely sees the new owners. Just agents acting on their behalf. 

Another unquantifiable piece of hearsay then. 

[owain]

1 minute ago, Jaymo said:

Another unquantifiable piece of hearsay then. 

Yes very good, go to bed 👍

[Jaymo]

6 minutes ago, owain said:

Yes very good, go to bed 👍

Do you have a secondary function in Politics, for you sure avoid giving any answers 😉

[oowee]

2 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

In many of the areas internet speeds are too slow with limited bandwidth for this.   We live semi rural but even here, on the fastest package the net drops  2 or 3   times a day and upload/download is slow much of the day due to over usage.

? Try Starlink. 

2 hours ago, owain said:

People will usually pay what something is worth. And that’s not necessarily what the estate agent says it is, if it didn’t sell, it was most probably over priced by a greedy estate agent. 

This.  Prices need a rethink. 

[owain]

13 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Do you have a secondary function in Politics, for you sure avoid giving any answers 😉

If I did, I would certainly have a second home 😉

[Scully]

9 hours ago, owain said:

A lot of the houses in new build estates are second home/ buy to lets. A lad I know supplies and fits white goods, he was saying he rarely sees the new owners. Just agents acting on their behalf. 

You can’t prove thats so anymore than I can prove it isn’t, so your comment is meaningless. 
Building houses was my background, and still is for most of the lads I know in my former home town. Having a ‘lad I know ‘ in the business doesn’t prove a thing however. 
What I do know however, is that the latest big housing scheme of over 500 new builds in my home town, comprises of quite a few in the help to buy scheme. There is one buy to let that I know of, and I know this because a mate owns it. 
None of this helps anyone in the Lakes  however as there just isn’t the jobs unless you want to go into hospitality ( minimum wage ) or are self employed. Or, as you point out, commute, but that’s always been the case. 
Mice has it right in his post. 

[Lloyd90]

12 hours ago, ditchman said:

i think if you prevented people owning 2nd homes ....it wouldnt make any difference to the local people...because the prices of the houses in these little costal villages would still be beyond the reach of local wages......

when i grasped the property ladder i was on £14,750 quid a year...and a nice 3 bedroom house anywhere was about £30,000....i could borrow 100% providing my salary was 2.5 times the property price....

2nd homers have preserved these villages............as there isnt the economy to support wage earing families there anymore.......it does seem unfair ...but thats the way life/economy has panned out....dont forget the wheel turns......

This is the real issue. 
 

Years ago people could mess about in school, come out with minimal qualifications, get an apprenticeship or a trade or work hard in some similar field and make enough money to support a family and get on the property ladder. 
 

Not everyone but lots of people were able to support a Mrs / partner at home looking after the kids. 
 

House prices have rises a lot faster than wages, deposits needed are significantly higher, even though interest rates are a lot lower, the amount of money needed to borrow is so massive the lower interest rates don’t make that much of a difference. 
 

 

What we are seeing now is a lot of people didn’t come away with access to a highly paid career are no longer able to afford the above. 
 

A tradesman wage in a lot of places is no longer enough to support a family at home, get on the property ladder etc etc etc. 
 

It’s nothing new to a lot of countries, you see it in many places across the world. 

[owain]

35 minutes ago, Scully said:

You can’t prove thats so anymore than I can prove it isn’t, so your comment is meaningless. 
Building houses was my background, and still is for most of the lads I know in my former home town. Having a ‘lad I know ‘ in the business doesn’t prove a thing however. 
What I do know however, is that the latest big housing scheme of over 500 new builds in my home town, comprises of quite a few in the help to buy scheme. There is one buy to let that I know of, and I know this because a mate owns it. 
None of this helps anyone in the Lakes  however as there just isn’t the jobs unless you want to go into hospitality ( minimum wage ) or are self employed. Or, as you point out, commute, but that’s always been the case. 
Mice has it right in his post. 

A good 90% of this thread has been peoples thoughts or experience with very little in the way of “proof” either way. Just because my opinion or experience doesn’t tie in with yours, doesn’t make my comment any more or less meaningless than yours does it?

Lets face it, if there was no debate and everybody just posted stone cold fact, with no individual input, then Internet forums would be extremely boring places. 

[Mungler]

The answer for these rural / under populated areas is actually Air BnB.

If the argument is about under occupancy / under use then having a different and fresh occupier in with regularity is precisely what the local economy needs.

Ah but multiple properties and passive income is catnip for the left.

 

[Jaymo]

36 minutes ago, owain said:

A good 90% of this thread has been peoples thoughts or experience with very little in the way of “proof” either way. Just because my opinion or experience doesn’t tie in with yours, doesn’t make my comment any more or less meaningless than yours does it?

Lets face it, if there was no debate and everybody just posted stone cold fact, with no individual input, then Internet forums would be extremely boring places. 

Actually. 
You have made several statements, not ‘opinions’ and all baseless. 
When countered, the subject changed to another baseless fact or deflection. 
 

I really didn’t need ‘to go to bed’ 🤔

[owain]

5 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Actually. 
You have made several statements, not ‘opinions’ and all baseless. 
When countered, the subject changed to another baseless fact or deflection. 
 

I really didn’t need ‘to go to bed’ 🤔

I’ve certainly given my opinion on the matter, Im not the one asking for facts, neither have I ever tried to claim anything I have said to be one. 

Would you like to highlight in the thread any “facts” you have enlightened us with? 

[old man]

15 hours ago, McSpredder said:

What happens if Mr & Mrs Rich decide to live apart, one having a house in the city and the other living in a country cottage?   

That's an old trick, I knew a few couples doing that 20 years ago. The separation scam?

[Cranfield]

If you can afford a second home, I am not sure that additional council tax would be a problem.

I agree with the previous comments that there always seems to be an undeserved outcry against anyone who has worked hard and pays their way.

 

[old'un]

5 minutes ago, Cranfield said:

If you can afford a second home, I am not sure that additional council tax would be a problem....Not always the case.

I agree with the previous comments that there always seems to be an undeserved outcry against anyone who has worked hard and pays their way.

 

friend of ours owns a cottage in a small village on the west coast of Wales, there's about 100/150 houses/cottages, opposite the cottage is a biggish house with substantial grounds, talking to the guy who lives there turns out he’s a copper, think its his wife with the money, we got talking about the village and the number of holiday homes, he tells me he owns two himself, they originally bought them for their son and daughter but he said they do not want to live in the village and plan to move to Newport or Cardiff or where there’s more jobs and night life.

He said that if it was not for the tourists the village would be dead and there would be a lot of empty cottages going into poor repair.

[Scully]

2 hours ago, owain said:

A good 90% of this thread has been peoples thoughts or experience with very little in the way of “proof” either way. Just because my opinion or experience doesn’t tie in with yours, doesn’t make my comment any more or less meaningless than yours does it?

 

Isn’t that more or less what I said? 
Trying to make, or indeed prove a point with nothing more than opinion is just that, meaningless. 
While we all no doubt have ‘mates’ who have told us one thing or another, it doesn’t alter the fact that those on average wage around here couldn’t afford the type of houses many have as second homes, even if they’re forced back onto the market. It will do very little to resolve any housing issues around here. 
New builds as first homes are much more affordable than the types of houses some have as second homes, around here anyhow. 

[Boybrit]

At the rear of Dover I am informed they are building a planned total of 6,000 houses Canterbury going a similar way almost no flats in the mix just eating up agri land. The prices I am seeing asked are for executive level incomes whatever that means today as there is no industry down here apart from guarding rubber dinghy storage lots, tradesmen need not apply.

[harrycatcat1]

What I can't understand is why folks think that they have an entitlement to have a house in the village or town that they were born in? 🤔 

[Rupert]

All these rural types moving to the city driving up property prices with the level of demand, outrageous, folk have lived there all there lives cant buy a flat/semi etc.