BLACK POWDER LOADS

[Fenlandbob]

Evening, all. Not been here for quite a while, work and life in general get in the way. However, one thing that is currently keeping me awake at night is the lack of printed 410 loads for black powder, or indeed its substitutes. 

Can anybody here point me in the right direction for 2 1/2 and 3" load data? I fancy using Pyrodex or similar, but cannot find any information. If anyone here has any experience, please feel free to share! Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Rob.

[holloway]

This may help taken from an old Hodgdon leaflet dated 1983 hope it helps.

Edited December 14, 2022 by holloway

[NoBodyImportant]

Black powder I use the same amount of shot as powder by volume. 

[222mark]

.410 3" 11/16oz, 3/4 dram 201/2 gns Black powder. .410 21/2 " 1/2oz, 3/4 dram 201/2gns Black powder. This data is for low velocity and is taken from Climbing the north face of the .410 by Tim Woodhouse. Standard velocity data is 1 dram 271/2gns Black powder. Hope this helps.

[harkom]

On 15/12/2022 at 09:40, NoBodyImportant said:

Black powder I use the same amount of shot as powder by volume. 

May not be a wise choice - unless the grade of powder is stipulated. A fine grained powder might be excessive for use as equal volumes for shot and powder.

[NoBodyImportant]

5 hours ago, harkom said:

May not be a wise choice - unless the grade of powder is stipulated. A fine grained powder might be excessive for use as equal volumes for shot and powder.

It’s pretty standard over here, it’s the traditional fowler load.  As long as you don’t have an air space you really can’t get a overpressure with shot. I load brass case with 2 and 3f.  

[harkom]

1 hour ago, NoBodyImportant said:

with 2 and 3f.  

AH..... now you are defining parameters. The un-initiated may/probably assume BP to be all the same. The powder grade should also change depending on the gauge of shotgun?

[NoBodyImportant]

2 minutes ago, harkom said:

AH..... now you are defining parameters. The un-initiated may/probably assume BP to be all the same. The powder grade should also change depending on the gauge of shotgun?

The rule of thumb is 3f for 50cal and smaller and 2f for 12g to 50cal and 1f for larger stuff. But it’s more of a performance thing and not a safety issue.  As long as there are no air gaps then it’s almost impossible to damage a modern gun with shot and BP.  So figure out the amount of room your wad takes up and split the leftover room equally between the shot and powder. That will give you a starting point. Test the pattern and start subtracting shot and powder until you get a pattern you like.  Important thing it you don’t leave air gaps, as you subtract powder and shot add filler like grits or cream of wheat to fill the void.  I will have to go back to my notes for 410 but if I remember correctly the Turkey load my 12g HR patterns best is 65g of 3f with a thin cork under a wool wad, 65g( by volume) 7 shot ( American 7 shot is British 6) topped with over shot card hot glued all in a brass shell. 

[harkom]

NBI - thank you for the clarification  - which is more for the enlightenment of uninitiated. And I do not want to be pedantic, but sadly this is a necessity where load data is put out on internet - is "65g" referring to Grains OR Grams? Data by volume is ...risky ?

[NoBodyImportant]

On a side note IV8888 filled a musket barrel full of BP and hammered a ball in.  Didn’t blow up.  The science behind it is as long as there is no air gaps then the BP will shoot unburnt powder out the end before it will over pressurize.  

 

4 minutes ago, harkom said:

NBI - thank you for the clarification  - which is more for the enlightenment of uninitiated. And I do not want to be pedantic, but sadly this is a necessity where load data is put out on internet - is "65g" referring to Grains OR Grams? Data by volume is ...risky ?

Grains.  But  over here BP is almost always measured in grains by volume.  

[NoBodyImportant]

BP is very safe.  On New Year’s Day we have an old Pennsylvania Dutch tradition of loading as much  BP into guns as possible and running around town firing them off to scare away evil spirits. The point is to see who can handle the most recoil so people tape up the stocks to keep them from shattering and they will load 200 to 4000 grains.  Blowing up a gun is sign of pride but almost impossible.  Trick is NO airspace.  I just made 5 lbs of BP the other day. 

[Mr.C]

Seen some of these pics before and I'm guessing it's a trick of perspective that makes it look like the woman is discharging a flame thrower on a petrol station. 

The second last pic explains why they're all getting ready to fill their trousers. 

[London Best]

Pics are genuine. They are all NUTS!

[DUNKS]

Good old boys. Men after my own heart.

Edited December 22, 2022 by DUNKS

[243deer]

acceptable levels of collateral damage then .........

[cardigun]

Only In America !

[rovercoupe]

Now that’s the smell of freedom, brown trousers and black powder.

[Fenlandbob]

Thanks for your replies, folks. Sorry for the silence, had a technical problem my end.....,As has been touched upon, 3f or 2f? And is brass preferable to plastic cases, as I have heard that black powder is hard on plastic? And on the same line of questioning, plastic or fibre wads? Many thanks. Happy Christmas all.

Regards, Rob.

[Andy H]

Have a look at this thread on Greybeards outdoor's forum.

https://www.go2gbo.com/threads/410-brass-blackopowder-shot-shell-reloading.204133/

Also if you go the brass cartridge route 1967Spud has them for £15-50 for 25 https://1967spud.com/reloading/brass-cases-unprimed?calibre=8927 and clay and game has the fibre and card wads you will need , If you get the you will need an FAC to buy the primers reply you can have them machined out to take shotgun primers they are not restricted.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Andy H

[holloway]

5 hours ago, Fenlandbob said:

Thanks for your replies, folks. Sorry for the silence, had a technical problem my end.....,As has been touched upon, 3f or 2f? And is brass preferable to plastic cases, as I have heard that black powder is hard on plastic? And on the same line of questioning, plastic or fibre wads? Many thanks. Happy Christmas all.

Regards, Rob.

No need to overcomplicate it just use the Pyrodex data posted ,it’s all there it will break clays or kill birds.

[Fenlandbob]

50 minutes ago, Andy H said:

Have a look at this thread on Greybeards outdoor's forum.

https://www.go2gbo.com/threads/410-brass-blackopowder-shot-shell-reloading.204133/

Also if you go the brass cartridge route 1967Spud has them for £15-50 for 25 https://1967spud.com/reloading/brass-cases-unprimed?calibre=8927 and clay and game has the fibre and card wads you will need , If you get the you will need an FAC to buy the primers reply you can have them machined out to take shotgun primers they are not restricted.

Cheers mate, I'll have a look. Regarding the brass cases, there's a firm in the states that supplies them. They machine them from brass stock stock, and are intended as a direct replacement for plastic, matching the dimensions so that off the shelf wads, cards and 209 primers can be used. Not cheap, but will last a lifetime. 

Regards, Rob.

[Fenlandbob]

32 minutes ago, holloway said:

No need to overcomplicate it just use the Pyrodex data posted ,it’s all there it will break clays or kill birds.

I'll have a look. I haven't managed to find any data as yet.....,

[Andy H]

7 minutes ago, Fenlandbob said:

I'll have a look. I haven't managed to find any data as yet.....,

Have a look here there is some black powder 410 load data on it https://goexpowder.com/resources/load-charts/ and here http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

[Fenlandbob]

1 hour ago, Andy H said:

Have a look here there is some black powder 410 load data on it https://goexpowder.com/resources/load-charts/ and here http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

Thank you chap. I'll have a look.

[Windswept]

9 hours ago, Andy H said:

Have a look here there is some black powder 410 load data on it https://goexpowder.com/resources/load-charts/ and here http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

Many thanks for that, I've never stumbled across the GOEX loads and they'll be useful.