oowee Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 10 hours ago, Cosmicblue said: I have an idea... Let's turn the NHS on it's head and start by paying the people who are hands-on delivering the care a realistic salary that reflects the commitment and dedication to do the job 24x7x365. NHS Trust Chief Execs are in the £300k+ territory - there's no way that anyone in the public sector can justify that kind of salary - are they delivering shareholder value as we'd expect to see in the private sector (hard to justify here too)? That would be a 'no' then. The salaries paid to the non-care delivery staff in the NHS need to reflect the job itself - not attached to an eternal gravy train funded by the tax-payer. Lets pay a realistic salary but not to the CEO. Lets get a discount ceo for one of the biggest jobs in the country. Pay peanuts get monkeys. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 1 minute ago, oowee said: Lets pay a realistic salary but not to the CEO. Lets get a discount ceo for one of the biggest jobs in the country. Pay peanuts get monkeys. ? Well currently the country is not paying peanuts but already appears to be getting the monkeys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Well currently the country is not paying peanuts but already appears to be getting the monkeys! Whys that? You think £250k is a fair rate iof pay for the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 My wifes firm has around 40000 emplyees and pays the CEO around £14m a year. The CEO has a supportive board that agree strategy and delivery with the CEO and has a direct reward from success. The NHS is far bigger, pays a salary to the CEO that is equivalent to that of a small business. The NHS will employ over a million ? The NHS 'Board' (Govt) is continualy changing, sets the plan and strategy driven by political dogma rather than business success. The budget is handed out rather than agreed. The business benefits from continuous political interference. We wonder why we have a problem 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 53 minutes ago, oowee said: The NHS 'Board' (Govt) is continualy changing, sets the plan and strategy driven by political dogma rather than business success. The budget is handed out rather than agreed. The business benefits from continuous political interference. You seem to be making a good argument for...literally any other system than the NHS 54 minutes ago, oowee said: My wifes firm has around 40000 emplyees and pays the CEO around £14m a year. The CEO has a supportive board that agree strategy and delivery with the CEO and has a direct reward from success. The difference is, the CEO and board of your wife's firm are responsible and accountable for the success and failures of the company. Meanwhile the NHS senior management is seemingly unable to plan for winter, which occurs every year. Ministers won't hold them to account, and all the media do is screech 'muh lack of money', which is demonstrably untrue. As one wag on twitter put it "The highest tax rate for 70 years and you can't even get an ambulance". What an absolute shower, and no Keir Starmer will not fix it, although maybe the some of the political activists within the NHS might deign to do their jobs once Labour's in power, rather than the current "work to rule". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: You seem to be making a good argument for...literally any other system than the NHS The difference is, the CEO and board of your wife's firm are responsible and accountable for the success and failures of the company. Meanwhile the NHS senior management is seemingly unable to plan for winter, which occurs every year. Ministers won't hold them to account, and all the media do is screech 'muh lack of money', which is demonstrably untrue. As one wag on twitter put it "The highest tax rate for 70 years and you can't even get an ambulance". What an absolute shower, and no Keir Starmer will not fix it, although maybe the some of the political activists within the NHS might deign to do their jobs once Labour's in power, rather than the current "work to rule". My starting point was in response to the suggestion that a few £100k was too much for a public sector ceo pointing out that this was chicken feed for the scale of the job and out of synch with real world pay. NHS management like the public sector won't be able to get it all right. That said when they start from o position of desperation any additional issue is likely to highlighted more sharply than it otherwise might be. The issue is that the electrorate wont face upto the reality that the budget must increase out of all proportion to what it is or we face reality and significantly change the role and purpose of the NHS. Unfortunately its an option so toxic that no one is likley to vote for it. The only way forward must surely be to off shore the problem, and therefore the soloution by removing it from the political structures we currently have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, oowee said: The only way forward must surely be to off shore the problem, and therefore the soloution by removing it from the political structures we currently have. Best get labour to agree to it first, its their primary weapon. 11 minutes ago, oowee said: My starting point was in response to the suggestion that a few £100k was too much for a public sector ceo pointing out that this was chicken feed for the scale of the job and out of synch with real world pay. I reckon you could double everyones wages , and it still wouldnt work. 11 minutes ago, oowee said: NHS management like the public sector won't be able to get it all right. They seem to get very little 'right' Its like WW1 field marshalls and generals , 20 miles from the front , sipping port and slapping each other on the back at what a good job theyre doing. The reality is they have no concept of tactics and strategy, care nothing for the troops , and are perfectly OK with people dying due to their poor management. ITV catch up , Tonight programme from a few days ago , 'When can I see my GP ?' https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-12/when-can-i-see-my-gp-itv-tonight The system needs tearing down and starting again with insurance backed resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 How is it that people waiting for hip replacements etc. are having to wait years, but "Gender Identity" patients feel they can challenge the NHS if they are not seen in 18 weeks? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64288386 The decision went in favour of the NHS, but the NHS having to fight these court cases (and the claimants are looking to appeal the decision) is surely one more drain on their (publicly funded) resources they could do without. Madness. It's a personal view obviously, but I don't see it as the NHS's role to pick up 'Gender Identity" issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 I got ill health retirement from my work due to a fall and landing on my left knee i crushed the cartridge , I was told after getting it drained 6 times and cortisone injections every six months i have lost count how many now i would be getting a new knee at 60 , come my 60th they now reckon there's some cartridge in there ( Where it came from i don't know ) and it will last till im 70 ?LOL I am quite happy i will struggle on i don't want to go near a hospital while covid and the winter flu etc is here . But taking the wife back and forward to hospital you see a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 5 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: It's a personal view obviously, but I don't see it as the NHS's role to pick up 'Gender Identity" issues. You are not alone in your view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 18 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: How is it that people waiting for hip replacements etc. are having to wait years, but "Gender Identity" patients feel they can challenge the NHS if they are not seen in 18 weeks? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64288386 The decision went in favour of the NHS, but the NHS having to fight these court cases (and the claimants are looking to appeal the decision) is surely one more drain on their (publicly funded) resources they could do without. Madness. It's a personal view obviously, but I don't see it as the NHS's role to pick up 'Gender Identity" issues. Legal costs against NHS £2.4b 21/22 can't be right. No wonder Dr's are often reluctant to try something for fear of litigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, oowee said: Legal costs against NHS £2.4b 21/22 can't be right. No wonder Dr's are often reluctant to try something for fear of litigation. What like actually treating the patient, rather than ignoring them , or sending them home and telling them to take some paracetamol ? Medical negligence claims happen because the NHS DIDNT do something, rather than doing something that didnt go quite right, certainly in the vast majority of cases. What we have here is the backlog of the NHS focussing on one disease, which made them heroes for a while , but the excess deaths caused by non diagnosis and treatment during those 2 years , which WILL continue to grow, and will eventually make them villains. The general public are seeking alternatives in PMC , and learning how to treat themselves, whilst their confidence is shattered in the NHS , all they hear is NHS staff asking for more money. What is it , ransom , extortion ? Give us the money or we wont treat you? Pay up or you cant see a doctpr ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Rewulf said: What like actually treating the patient, rather than ignoring them , or sending them home and telling them to take some paracetamol ? Medical negligence claims happen because the NHS DIDNT do something, rather than doing something that didnt go quite right, certainly in the vast majority of cases. What we have here is the backlog of the NHS focussing on one disease, which made them heroes for a while , but the excess deaths caused by non diagnosis and treatment during those 2 years , which WILL continue to grow, and will eventually make them villains. The general public are seeking alternatives in PMC , and learning how to treat themselves, whilst their confidence is shattered in the NHS , all they hear is NHS staff asking for more money. What is it , ransom , extortion ? Give us the money or we wont treat you? Pay up or you cant see a doctpr ? I just completed a NHS survey on the work of my local GP. The feedback they are getting must be dire. That said I do think its a mismatch between resource and expectation. The work load has hugely increased and the resource has simply not kept pace. It must be a case of payup or no doctor or we have a total rethink. In the last two years I have gone private twice because I cant get anywhere with trying to get an appointment. My daughter (or her friends 🤣) will usualy point me in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, oowee said: I just completed a NHS survey on the work of my local GP. The feedback they are getting must be dire. Check any doctors surgery, none of them have good reviews . 3 minutes ago, oowee said: The work load has hugely increased and the resource has simply not kept pace. Do surgeries not get paid per patient, if the workload has increased, is that because of patient numbers increasing (in which case they get more money , so could employ more staff ?) Or is it because they have sat on their behinds for 2 years , doing phone consultations , or highly lucrative vaccinations , so all those patients that couldnt be seen, are now seriously ill or dying ~? 3 minutes ago, oowee said: or we have a total rethink. There isnt another sensible option, more money = more waste +more inefficiency . 3 minutes ago, oowee said: In the last two years I have gone private twice because I cant get anywhere with trying to get an appointment. My daughter (or her friends 🤣) will usualy point me in the right direction. Youre lucky to have the funds to pay for it , and GP in the family to advise you where to spend it. Now imagine where you would be if you didnt have those resources..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good shot? Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 40 years ago after slipping a disc and in considerable pain I was told I would have to wait 18months before a specialist appointment was available. I paid £30 and was seen 2 days later by the same specialist and was in an hospital bed 1 hour after he examined me. Nothing changes for the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 My mates wife is a cleaner at our local doctors surgery , Our doctor passed her one evening and asked after her man , She replied he's had a cough for 6 weeks . The doctor replied after 3 weeks with a cough he really should come and see me . His wife said he cant get a appointment . The doctor walked away laughing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 22 hours ago, Bigbob said: The doctor walked away laughing Thats because he still gets paid for that patient whether he sees them or not. This is where the system falls down. Bombard the GPs surgery with complaints , on all platforms , MAKE them realise that the system is a failure , and its not the patients fault for being ill, especially when much of it is down to them not seeing anyone for 2 years. They say most 111 calls are directed after 90 seconds, many people including the good Mrs Wulf have reported lately that 111 isnt answered AT ALL ,and wait times of 30 mins plus are not unusual. It appears we cant supply doctors nurses and ambulance drivers , but we cant even find people to answer a phone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted January 19, 2023 Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 On 16/01/2023 at 15:45, JohnfromUK said: How is it that people waiting for hip replacements etc. are having to wait years, but "Gender Identity" patients feel they can challenge the NHS if they are not seen in 18 weeks? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64288386 The decision went in favour of the NHS, but the NHS having to fight these court cases (and the claimants are looking to appeal the decision) is surely one more drain on their (publicly funded) resources they could do without. Madness. It's a personal view obviously, but I don't see it as the NHS's role to pick up 'Gender Identity" issues. Ah, the new Utopia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted January 19, 2023 Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 23 hours ago, Rewulf said: Thats because he still gets paid for that patient whether he sees them or not. This is where the system falls down. Bombard the GPs surgery with complaints , on all platforms , MAKE them realise that the system is a failure , and its not the patients fault for being ill, especially when much of it is down to them not seeing anyone for 2 years. They say most 111 calls are directed after 90 seconds, many people including the good Mrs Wulf have reported lately that 111 isnt answered AT ALL ,and wait times of 30 mins plus are not unusual. It appears we cant supply doctors nurses and ambulance drivers , but we cant even find people to answer a phone ? Another Brexit 'Brucie bonus' a workforce shortage 300000+ . Maybe when we settle all of the strikes the pay rates will be such that workers will be queing up for jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted January 19, 2023 Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 1 hour ago, oowee said: Another Brexit 'Brucie bonus' a workforce shortage 300000+ . Maybe when we settle all of the strikes the pay rates will be such that workers will be queing up for jobs. Brexit eh ? There are 1.2 million full time NHS staff, another 300,000 in support. You say we need 300,000 more , a commons select group says 475,000, so between 1.5 to nearly 2 million NHS staff ? What are they looking for a 2:1 staff to patient ratio, or higher ? How many NHS staff does it take to empty a bed pan ? 6 to lift the patient and 2 to take the pan away, and 12 admin to sign it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downforce Posted July 23, 2023 Report Share Posted July 23, 2023 On 10/01/2023 at 16:33, Charliedog said: last time i went to see a GP I put my symptoms into google first to see what it came up with and advised to see a GP, low and behold the GP did exactly the same thing (strange rash) The GP was strange and rash ? Or you had a strange rash that needed diagnosis? A lot of my old mates from the Army often had strange rashes! D PS i really might consider dog walking at £36 an hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted July 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2023 Hello, thanks for all replies, I really try and keep healthy as best you can as I would really dread having to go in hospital 🤔🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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