Housing "Refugees" / Economic Migrants - looking for a BETTER Life

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

That tells you how the BBC pick their QT audience more than anything else.

They ALWAYS have!   

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

That tells you how the BBC pick their QT audience more than anything else.

This ^^^

[Houseplant]

The United Kingdom (and perhaps most of Europe) seems like a huge mess re: immigration. It seems unstoppable. As the son of a refugee mother who came to to the United Kingdom in the 1970s as a result of war, and now an immigrant myself to another country, I'm hardly anti-immigration, but it does need to be controlled and within the resources of a country to cope. We are visiting Europe later this year. I have the opportunity to come to England. In all honesty, not sure I want to, think I'll be happier with my memories.

[Weihrauch17]

23 minutes ago, Houseplant said:

The United Kingdom (and perhaps most of Europe) seems like a huge mess re: immigration. It seems unstoppable. As the son of a refugee mother who came to to the United Kingdom in the 1970s as a result of war, and now an immigrant myself to another country, I'm hardly anti-immigration, but it does need to be controlled and within the resources of a country to cope. We are visiting Europe later this year. I have the opportunity to come to England. In all honesty, not sure I want to, think I'll be happier with my memories.

I wouldn't bother, you won't be impressed on any front!

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, Houseplant said:

The United Kingdom (and perhaps most of Europe) seems like a huge mess re: immigration. It seems unstoppable. As the son of a refugee mother who came to to the United Kingdom in the 1970s as a result of war, and now an immigrant myself to another country, I'm hardly anti-immigration, but it does need to be controlled and within the resources of a country to cope. We are visiting Europe later this year. I have the opportunity to come to England. In all honesty, not sure I want to, think I'll be happier with my memories.

I doubt you turned up in a rubber boat with nothing to offer, there's a massive difference between applying to emirgrate to somewhere like NZ, than arriving and expecting a hand out.

[Houseplant]

15 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I doubt you turned up in a rubber boat with nothing to offer, there's a massive difference between applying to emirgrate to somewhere like NZ, than arriving and expecting a hand out.

If anyone jumped through the hoops I jumped through to get in to NZ, they would be welcome here, the UK or anywhere as far as I'm concerned! 

[Good shot?]

9 hours ago, Houseplant said:

If anyone jumped through the hoops I jumped through to get in to NZ, they would be welcome here, the UK or anywhere as far as I'm concerned! 

My wife and I needed to go to Oz for 12 months due to a family emergency. The amount of form filling etc was unbelievable and costly, and so it should be.

[old man]

16 hours ago, Houseplant said:

The United Kingdom (and perhaps most of Europe) seems like a huge mess re: immigration. It seems unstoppable. As the son of a refugee mother who came to to the United Kingdom in the 1970s as a result of war, and now an immigrant myself to another country, I'm hardly anti-immigration, but it does need to be controlled and within the resources of a country to cope. We are visiting Europe later this year. I have the opportunity to come to England. In all honesty, not sure I want to, think I'll be happier with my memories.

Thankfully you jumped ship Hp, you are exhibiting far too much common sense to remain here.

We are racing to the bottom of an economic and cultural abyss for some unfathomable reason?

Give the visit a wide pass maybe?

Edited April 1, 2023 by old man

[Keith 66]

Housing migrants in old military bases & hotels is nothing new, Its been going on for years & years, at least since 2010.

Five major companies have been awarded £5.8 Billion quids worth of contracts since 2010.

Serco £2.18 billion, Mitie £627 million, Mears £1.15 Billion, Clearsprings ready homes ltc £996 million.

Its big business & lots of high up people have fingers in the pie, probably why they only huff & puff when an election is coming & votes are needed to stay in power.

[morgan]

Yes fortunes are being made out of the refugee crisis by conservative doners. The big public service companys are deeply embedded into the government, same as the PPE and covid tracing contracts. The only reason we are having to house refugees for so long and such great expensive is that the immigration service and border force cannot meet the demand, because it is massively underfunded and not fit for purpose. There was Border force official virtually in tears in frustration on the radio. The worlds political stage has changed beyond recognition in the last 20 years since the Gulf war. This government needs to fund and expend our immigration service to meet rising needs. There is an up to four year waiting list for applications to be processed. Meanwhile the government does nothing, except letting the right wing media complain and weaponise the crisis about the refugees and the bleeding heart lefties. The flag wavers feel connected, bitching about a percieved invasion of rapists and criminals all caused by the left wing. Meanwhile we take our eyes off rising inflation, massive energy costs, failing public services etc etc which is the legacy of the past decade of british government. If the conservative government wanted a fit for purpose immigration system and to sove the crisis, they could easily do it - HS2 is costing a projected £180 billion now........so it is not down to funding.

Edited April 1, 2023 by morgan

[welsh1]

Just now, morgan said:

Yes fortunes are being made out of the refugee crisis by conservative doners. The only reason we are having to house refugees for so long and such great expensive is that the immigration service and border force is massively underfunded and not fit for purpose.  The worlds political stage has changed beyond recognition in the last 20 years since the Gulf war. This government needs to fund and expend our immigration service to meet rising needs. There is an up to four year waiting list for applications to be processed. Meanwhile the government does nothing, except letting the right wing media complain and weaponise the crisis about the refugees and the bleeding heart lefties, everyone feels connected, bitching about percieved invasion of rapists and criminals. Meanwhile we take our eyes off rising inflation, massive energy costs, failing public services etc etc which is the legacy of the past decade of british government. If the conservative government wanted a fit for purpose immigration system and to sove the crisis, they could easily do it - HS2 is costing a projected £180 billion now........so it is not down to funding.

And a labour government would control immigration lol, i seem to remember it was labour under blair that encouraged mass immigration.
Nothing will change if labour come to power.

[morgan]

18 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

And a labour government would control immigration lol, i seem to remember it was labour under blair that encouraged mass immigration.
Nothing will change if labour come to power.

I'm not suggesting they would be any better at the job - but as you have aptly demonstrated, the right instead of addressing the problem, is blaming the left for the crisis and doing nothing to sort it out, except weaponise it for its own political ends, hoodwinking the public. This country desperately needs a fit for purpose immigration service - which it currently doesn't have. This problem has been 10 years in the making. In fairness the west has totally destabilised the middle east under both british conservative and labour governments, which is the root of the problem - apart from the obvious economic migrants such as the Albanians. Before Brexit we were party to the Dublin agreement which allowed us to return migrants to there last port of call.

Edited April 1, 2023 by morgan

[welsh1]

35 minutes ago, morgan said:

I'm not suggesting they would be any better at the job - but as you have aptly demonstrated, the right instead of addressing the problem, is blaming the left for the crisis and doing nothing to sort it out, except weaponise it for its own political ends, hoodwinking the public. This country desperately needs a fit for purpose immigration service - which it currently doesn't have. This problem has been 10 years in the making. In fairness the west has totally destabilised the middle east under both british conservative and labour governments, which is the root of the problem - apart from the obvious economic migrants such as the Albanians. Before Brexit we were party to the Dublin agreement which allowed us to return migrants to there last port of call.

Do you accept that under labour and blair is when immigration started to become out of control, blair wanted a multi cultural britain and a bigger voting base, it was labour that started something that has contiued, and will continue even under a labour government.

As for apptly demonstrating something, you have clearly demonstrated the way labour try to weponise anything another party does, if they spend money labour says it's to much or not enough, if they go to deport labour are against, if they start spending labour say it's to late.

What i would be really interested in is a fully costed plan from labour for anything they object to and say they will do it better, because from where i am sitting as a floating voter starmer is the man of promise, but it is smoke and mirrors and he has no costed plans for anything, starmer will do nothing to stop the immigration problem, it's not in his parties interest to do so.

[old man]

It would be illuminating to know whose mates/relatives are too close to the above companies receiving the contracts?

I bet the FOI act doesn't cover that?

[morgan]

21 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

Do you accept that under labour and blair is when immigration started to become out of control, blair wanted a multi cultural britain and a bigger voting base, it was labour that started something that has contiued, and will continue even under a labour government.

As for apptly demonstrating something, you have clearly demonstrated the way labour try to weponise anything another party does, if they spend money labour says it's to much or not enough, if they go to deport labour are against, if they start spending labour say it's to late.

What i would be really interested in is a fully costed plan from labour for anything they object to and say they will do it better, because from where i am sitting as a floating voter starmer is the man of promise, but it is smoke and mirrors and he has no costed plans for anything, starmer will do nothing to stop the immigration problem, it's not in his parties interest to do so.

Labour hasnt been in power for over 10 years, its not joined up thinking to somehow blame it on them. FYI I'm not a labour supporter. Problem is everyone is polarised in party politics and loyalties, instead of addressing the practicalities of addressing the refugee crisis. Clearly the immigration service needs bringing into the 21st century, with proper funding and development to meet the needs of current world politics. Why is this not being done ?

Edited April 1, 2023 by morgan

[oowee]

13 minutes ago, morgan said:

Labour hasnt been in power for over 10 years, its not joined up thinking to somehow blame it on them. FYI I'm not a labour supporter. Problem is everyone is polarised in party politics and loyalties, instead of addressing the practicalities of addressing the refugee crisis. Clearly the immigration service needs bringing into the 21st century, with proper funding and development to meet the needs of current world politics. Why is this not being done ?

^^^^^ This. The reason the Tories wont solve the problem is because the solution is toxic to the voter base. An immigration service fit for purpose, starting with a managed plan for migration starting with legal entry options and a managed process of induction and integration. None of which is palatable for voters who are unable to accept reality.

[janner]

Because this government, the dregs of the johnsons 'get brexit done' election winning party with its one horse manifesto is absolutely useless, anybody with credibility is long gone, it is becoming more and more apparent that they are incapable of doing anything policy wise without it going tits up, it cannot be argued otherwise that this shower of incompetents  only got in as labour had corbyn as their leader, trying to blame cvid and immigration for their many failings over our economy and cost of living/ health/ housing crises is par for the course with this shower of slippery liars,

every time i hear Gove speak i cannot help thinking of goebbals.

 

 

 

 

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, morgan said:

 This government needs to fund and expend our immigration service to meet rising needs. 

Why does it? 

Why do you believe the UK's population has a duty to pay for other countries problems, particularly when we have enough of our own people in poverty.

While all charity is noble, in my opinion no one should force others to pay towards a cause simply because others think they should. 

[morgan]

26 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Why does it? 

Why do you believe the UK's population has a duty to pay for other countries problems, particularly when we have enough of our own people in poverty.

While all charity is noble, in my opinion no one should force others to pay towards a cause simply because others think they should. 

Its not about charity, its about effective public services for the British taxpayer, that is the governments responsibilty to the electorate. If the government doesnt address the problem, with the current four year delay on processing applications, due to an underfunded immigration service. Britain will be housing thousands of refugees in temporary accomodation for the foreseeable future, while their applications are slowly being processed. Migration is going to increase in the coming decades, not decrease.

It suits the governments increasing right wing agendas very nicely - we have the refugee bogey people threatening our shores and the decent British way of life, Sunak blames the failure to address it on dangerous lefties, whilst doing absolutely nothing to address the problem. Its just rabble rousing, so the wider public ignore the decade long failings on inflation, the energy crisis, health, public services etc. Meanwhile the governments chums like Serco housing these refugees, make millions out of tax payers money. With a fit for purpose immigration service this crisis could be readily sorted out.

All we get from this government is coercion and division in British society, rather than good policy making. Migration dominates the headlines, though obviously a serious issue to already marginalised british working class communities and jobs, migration is only a small percentage of the budget. HS2 will cost the individual british tax payer far more than immigration will over the coming decade. This government is all about spin - people are thinking that the NHS is failing because of the refugee crisis.

Edited April 1, 2023 by morgan

[JohnfromUK]

16 minutes ago, morgan said:

With a fit for purpose immigration service this crisis could be readily sorted out.

Oh really?  Pull the other one - it's got bells on.  It is complete delusion to think that this issue can be 'readily sorted out'. 

It is actually a very widespread and difficult issue - and affecting the majority of the 'western world', not just the UK.  There are no easy answers or simple solutions.

[welsh1]

51 minutes ago, morgan said:

Labour hasnt been in power for over 10 years, its not joined up thinking to somehow blame it on them. FYI I'm not a labour supporter. Problem is everyone is polarised in party politics and loyalties, instead of addressing the practicalities of addressing the refugee crisis. Clearly the immigration service needs bringing into the 21st century, with proper funding and development to meet the needs of current world politics. Why is this not being done ?

You are naive if you think that something instigated by blair and labour years ago has no bearing on the immigration problem we have today, not only blairs multi cultural britain and labours dismataling of immigration policies, but blairs disater in the middle east which even today we are feeling the repocussions.

Labour and it's meddling with the immigration acts have a direct correlation to the position this country is in on immigration today.

 

[morgan]

38 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Oh really?  Pull the other one - it's got bells on.  It is complete delusion to think that this issue can be 'readily sorted out'. 

It is actually a very widespread and difficult issue - and affecting the majority of the 'western world', not just the UK.  There are no easy answers or simple solutions.

You are absolutely correct, but that is another debate. I'm talking about the hands on part of UK immigration ie. the processing of migrants, by the immigration service. Which is no longer fit for purpose in the 21st century for speedily and economically determining the status of migrants under international law. Consequently the back log is overwhelming british communities, wasting tax payers funds and has effectively has closed down the options for application for legal migration.

Edited April 1, 2023 by morgan

[morgan]

16 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

You are naive if you think that something instigated by blair and labour years ago has no bearing on the immigration problem we have today, not only blairs multi cultural britain and labours dismataling of immigration policies, but blairs disater in the middle east which even today we are feeling the repocussions.

Labour and it's meddling with the immigration acts have a direct correlation to the position this country is in on immigration today.

 

I'm a bit baffled by this, the Dublin agreement, we were party to while a member of the EU, allowed us to return illegal immigrants to their last port of departure. All other EU countries still retain this agreement. You are trying to bame this crisis on multiculturalism by the labour party, who havent been in office for a decade......and even if you are correct and its all the Labour partys fault......why havent this government got the gumption or resolve to address the problem - a functioning immigration service seems a no brainer to me.

Edited April 1, 2023 by morgan

[welsh1]

1 hour ago, morgan said:

I'm a bit baffled by this, the Dublin agreement, we were party to while a member of the EU, allowed us to return illegal immigrants to their last port of departure. All other EU countries still retain this agreement. You are trying to bame this crisis on multiculturalism by the labour party, who havent been in office for a decade......and even if you are correct and its all the Labour partys fault......why havent this government got the gumption or resolve to address the problem - a functioning immigration service seems a no brainer to me.

Go look at the immigration laws changed by Blair, things don't happen overnight, you are looking at the damage started by Blair and labour.

Who are the first to object when change is attempted?

 

 

[morgan]

The government has no real immigration policy. The Rwanda flights were just a lazy dog whistle gimmick by the clowns in power, to start culture wars and take the heat off the current administration and shift the blame to the left.  Its not a long term solution or a substitue for a properly functioning and funded 21st century immigration service.

What Blair did was relax the permit to work criteria which then allowed the pool of skilled eastern european labour to work in the UK, when the economy was booming, as most EU countries did at the time, it was nothing to do with illegal migration or status of asylum seekers. The catastrophic conflicts in the middle east have been the vector of the last decades immigration, apart from the obvious economic migrants from Albania and such like.

Edited April 1, 2023 by morgan