Teachers pay rise

[12gauge82]

Reading the other thread on the possible junior doctor strike and thought I'd start one on the teachers unions latest demands.

As there's talk by government of not delivering a 6.5% pay rise for them at a time the private sector is really struggling. I could see the teachers unions calling for strike action. 

I was shocked at the dramatics of some of that sector and their over inflated importance during the Covid pandemic, while all sectors have good and bad, I was surprised by the entitled attitude of the unions and some teachers. For instance I remember a guy on here arguing they should receive the first vaccines before anyone else, including the old and vulnerable as teachers are 'so important'.

[London Best]

Judging by how much (little) they teach the kids these days, I am not sure they are worth a pay rise at all.

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

was surprised by the entitled attitude of the unions

My Mrs has been getting msgs every few weeks asking if she's voted for upcoming action,  saying how important it is! The unions are pushing this same as the rail strikes, the schools closing for strike actions hits a lot of people that the rail strikes won't. 

32 minutes ago, London Best said:

Judging by how much (little) they teach the kids these days, I am not sure they are worth a pay rise at all.

Really?? It's not just down to the schools, it's up to parents as well.

[Centrepin]

For what they do and the hours they work I'm only surprised they get paid at all. 

If you can, do. If you can't teach.

Straight out of school to straight back to school. No life experience, no common sense and no use.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, there are millions of hard working citizens in UK who do not have the ability to strike due to their employers financial position 🤔

[London Best]

34 minutes ago, Mice! said:

 

Really?? It's not just down to the schools, it's up to parents as well.

Very true. My Mrs. had quite a few in reception class who could barely talk to you, let alone write their own name.

[steve1066]

2 minutes ago, London Best said:

Very true. My Mrs. had quite a few in reception class who could barely talk to you, let alone write their own name.

Maybe that answers your question LB, the teachers spend the first couple of years teaching them to talk first before they can start to give them an education.

The issue lies with the parents quite a lot of them have had kids but not are not prepared to put the hard work in to turn out a decent child. They didn’t know that after conception there was more to do.

out of interest it sounds as if your Mrs is in education, does she agree with your original comments, just interested?

 

 

 

 

[London Best]

3 minutes ago, steve1066 said:

Maybe that answers your question LB, the teachers spend the first couple of years teaching them to talk first before they can start to give them an education.

The issue lies with the parents quite a lot of them have had kids but not are not prepared to put the hard work in to turn out a decent child. They didn’t know that after conception there was more to do.

out of interest it sounds as if your Mrs is in education, does she agree with your original comments, just interested?

 

 

 

 

Now retired. Like me, she thought that the majority of people she worked with were lazy and overpaid for what they did. It’s not just teachers, is it?

[steve1066]

1 minute ago, London Best said:

Now retired. Like me, she thought that the majority of people she worked with were lazy and overpaid for what they did. It’s not just teachers, is it?

What price do you put on the occupation that is educating the future generations to run and work for this country.

yes you are correct a small percentage in all occupations are lazy and useless. But surprisingly they seem to get away with it.

[steve1066]

49 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

For what they do and the hours they work I'm only surprised they get paid at all. 

If you can, do. If you can't teach.

Straight out of school to straight back to school. No life experience, no common sense and no use.

You maybe surprised Centrepin that they are not paid for all the hours they work. If you worked out the hours they do work quite a few of them would be on minimum wage.

Your third comment is very true, but surely that is due to the youngsters going to University straight from School. At what age would you say they are of some use, gained life experience and now have that common sense, would you say 30-40? 
 

 

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

Judging by how much (little) they teach the kids these days, I am not sure they are worth a pay rise at all.

Considering kids have the highest academic achievement ever with top grades achieved is that fair? 🤷‍♂️

[12gauge82]

18 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Considering kids have the highest academic achievement ever with top grades achieved is that fair? 🤷‍♂️

Don't know if it was the best way of putting it, but my guess is he was referring to the absolute lack of common sense, know it all attitude due to the wokery and brain washing they seem to go through in higher education these days?

Edited June 25, 2023 by 12gauge82

[Lloyd90]

22 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Don't know if it was the best way of putting it, but my guess is he was referring to the absolute lack of common sense, know it all attitude due to the wokery and brain washing they seem to go through in higher education these days?

Lack or common sense and real world experience is likely (in my opinion) from them sitting inside their houses playing game stations 12+ hours a day rather than being outside in the real world. 
 

 

[12gauge82]

4 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Lack or common sense and real world experience is likely (in my opinion) from them sitting inside their houses playing game stations 12+ hours a day rather than being outside in the real world. 
 

 

Although that's probably a factor, I'd disagree, these days critical thinking has been greatly limited, particularly where a discussion around difficult subjects, or personal offence is likely to occur. Just look at speakers who are cancelled or banned from speaking. The entire education system has a very set narrative unfortunately and is why the young tend to vote very left and shift towards the centre as they get older and gain life experience.

[Lloyd90]

2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Although that's probably a factor, I'd disagree, these days critical thinking has been greatly limited, particularly where a discussion around difficult subjects, or personal offence is likely to occur. Just look at speakers who are cancelled or banned from speaking. The entire education system has a very set narrative unfortunately and is why the young tend to vote very left and shift towards the centre as they get older and gain life experience.

Not every school is like that as usual we are being bombarded with the most extreme cases where as the vast majority are just as before. 
 

Also it’s no longer the case that people get more centre or right wing as they get older. Historically people seemed to have felt that way until they themselves had a bit of wealth, then once they bought a house changed their mind (but hypocritical that eh!). 
 

However over recent years peoples quality of lives has declined so significant Vs people in the past it’s one of the first generations not to follow that trend. 
 

Just one of many articles highlighting the change: 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/financial-times-millennials-conservatives-age-b2253902.html

 

[12gauge82]

14 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Not every school is like that as usual we are being bombarded with the most extreme cases where as the vast majority are just as before. 
 

Also it’s no longer the case that people get more centre or right wing as they get older. Historically people seemed to have felt that way until they themselves had a bit of wealth, then once they bought a house changed their mind (but hypocritical that eh!). 
 

However over recent years peoples quality of lives has declined so significant Vs people in the past it’s one of the first generations not to follow that trend. 
 

Just one of many articles highlighting the change: 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/financial-times-millennials-conservatives-age-b2253902.html

 

I'm not sure that's correct either. Just look at how the Brexit debate was split by age, with the young voting remain and over 30s leave.

Very quick research and I found this, which seems to very clearly back up what I said.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election

[12gauge82]

Also highlighted is how education is very closely tied with voting left/remaining in eu

[JohnfromUK]

2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

there are millions of hard working citizens in UK who do not have the ability to strike due to their employers financial position

That is true - but perhaps better put another way ......... in that most 'private' employers operate in a competitive market - where your product needs to be a good product, readily available and keenly priced in the market to do well.  Therefore most 'private' employers have to strike a balance between many conflicting factors;

• Product needs to be keenly priced, but also need to pay decent wages to keep good staff and provide dividends to owners/shareholders so they put money in for new product development etc.  That means investment in machinery, training and tooling etc.
• To keep product technologically competitive, research and development has to be invested in to keep bringing out 'new and better' products and involve new materials etc.
• Product needs to be 'available' such that when people have the money and 'want one' they can buy it now and get it now - not wait a year.

Failing to meet those things ruined the British motor industry (and many other British industries).  In fact not being able to 'buy it now' is a very big red flag - as inevitably people go and spend the money on something else.

For service industries, public employees, rail workers, NHS workers etc. there often isn't really a sensible competitor ......... so no pressure to 'do well and efficiently'. 

I worked a full working life and never went on strike - as my employers (all private industry) had to remain competitive for us to survive.

[Mice!]

These threads always make me laugh, hands up how many of you have actually worked with kids? I've coached Judo and Rugby,  mixed age and one age group, 10-15 kids who mostly want to be there for two 1hr sessions a week, and there's not a chance that every kid is switched on and gets what you want them to do. 

Now make it 30-40 kids 5 days a week in the class room, primary teaching a bit of everything then obviously into high school where the teachers have their own subjects, where the kids have turned into teenagers and all the fun that brings.

How many on here think they could teach, because I know I couldn't. 

[bruno22rf]

Having spent 5 years working in a School I can assure you that the only time a Teacher sweats is when they are standing in the sun. The Teachers at the school I worked at only work 4 days/week, the fifth day is spent planning the following weeks lessons based on the seasonal curriculum.These lessons do not change from year to year so some Teachers simply go home and some sit in the staff room all day looking at holiday brochures. Any actual work that involves getting off your backside is done by Teaching assistants who get paid far less. Sorry Mice, but I have been told many times that I would make a good Teacher and the only people spouting how hard the job is are the thousands currently paid hansomely to Teach but are failing miserably, their pay is artificially high for one simple reason - working folk cannot afford to take days off looking after their own kids in the event of a strike. Next time they strike lets get the Army in to keep an eye on the children then sit back and watch the educaters crawl back. 

[JohnfromUK]

50 minutes ago, Mice! said:

These threads always make me laugh, hands up how many of you have actually worked with kids?

No I haven't worked with kids - and in my post I carefully avoided commenting on the particular teacher pay - sticking to the more general issue of striking for pay.  However, many professions require a combination of;

• Natural skills
• Education
• Specialist training
• Talent
• Practice - usually LOTS of practice

I could not teach kids (though I have trained adults - which is very different).  But most teachers couldn't do the things that other professions (the law, medicine and dentistry, finance, engineering, architecture, construction, the Armed Forces to name a few) do.  Teachers do what they are trained to do, have a talent for and often have great practical experience in doing.  So do all the other professions.

For that reason - I don't see teachers as any 'special case' any more than anyone else is.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

These threads always make me laugh, hands up how many of you have actually worked with kids? I've coached Judo and Rugby,  mixed age and one age group, 10-15 kids who mostly want to be there for two 1hr sessions a week, and there's not a chance that every kid is switched on and gets what you want them to do. 

Now make it 30-40 kids 5 days a week in the class room, primary teaching a bit of everything then obviously into high school where the teachers have their own subjects, where the kids have turned into teenagers and all the fun that brings.

How many on here think they could teach, because I know I couldn't. 

 

I'm glad these threads make you laugh!

 

Quite why anyone chooses to enter the teaching or health professions and then seems surprised about the pay and conditions when they are supposedly intelligent individuals!

[12gauge82]

3 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

 Army in to keep an eye on the children then sit back and watch the educaters crawl back. 

I'm just trying to visualise that, I'm sure the kids would love it 😂😂😂

[Bigbob]

We used to say when we caught the students doing something stupid , Its scary they could be leaders of this country 

The teachers have a big hold if they strike , Parents will need to take time off there work to watch the kids or organise babysitters where needed 

[steve1066]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

These threads always make me laugh, hands up how many of you have actually worked with kids? I've coached Judo and Rugby,  mixed age and one age group, 10-15 kids who mostly want to be there for two 1hr sessions a week, and there's not a chance that every kid is switched on and gets what you want them to do. 

Now make it 30-40 kids 5 days a week in the class room, primary teaching a bit of everything then obviously into high school where the teachers have their own subjects, where the kids have turned into teenagers and all the fun that brings.

How many on here think they could teach, because I know I couldn't. 

Spot on Mice.

I think a lot of comments made on this forum are made due to total ignorance of the subject.