Steel through any choke

[MWildfowler]

FEDERAL BLACK CLOUD 3" 36 GRAM No2 STEEL  Apparently these shells can be put through any choke? It also states this on the box. Does anyone have any experience using these or know how this is the case?

[HantsRob]

I'd still probably go with what the gun manufacturer says, rather than what a cartridge manufacturer says.

Interesting about the pellets not being round

 

[MWildfowler]

My thoughts exactly. Just thought I’d double check to see if anyone has any thoughts. Thank you @HantsRob

[Scully]

On 05/09/2023 at 14:57, MWildfowler said:

FEDERAL BLACK CLOUD 3" 36 GRAM No2 STEEL  Apparently these shells can be put through any choke? It also states this on the box. Does anyone have any experience using these or know how this is the case?

I’d contact the manufacturers or their agents for clarification. 

[Gas seal]

Hi MWildfowler there are recommended wildfowl chokes for federal cartridges. Some of the first wads wouldn’t go through some types of ported or wad striping chokes. Some of the chokes used are full and extra full. I would write to the manufacturers before using any cartridges,as Scully said . The USA are way ahead of us with commercial cartridges. 

[HantsRob]

25 minutes ago, Gas seal said:

 The USA are way ahead of us with commercial cartridges. 

Why do you say that?

genuine question, I have no subject matter knowledge on non-EU carts 

[holloway]

19 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

Why do you say that?

genuine question, I have no subject matter knowledge on non-EU carts 

The Americans were using steel 40  years ago they are miles ahead , our negativity is born of ignorance. 

[London Best]

And there are no proof laws in USA, so their gun barrels are made stupid thick and heavy so the Yanks can stuff anything they can buy through them.

[wymberley]

9 hours ago, holloway said:

The Americans were using steel 40  years ago they are miles ahead , our negativity is born of ignorance. 

We (BASC) were using steel some 35 years ago for coaching. As we knew then - and as now - it works. The Americans are not actually miles ahead; more like a few yards. My possibly apparent negativity is borne out of lack of interest on the grounds that I'll never have to use steel. As previously said, all credit to our foreshore 'fowlers who have done us proud with the change. If someone makes something somebody will buy it. Are we going to pay a small fortune (and never mind miles) just to get a few yards ahead? I think not. The traditional driven bird guys will use an homogeneous steel load and the extremists, something pricey. Our 'fowlers will do what they do best without the need, nor the desire, to spend their dosh just to gain a few yards extra range. It's the law of diminishing return.

[Scully]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

And there are no proof laws in USA, so their gun barrels are made stupid thick and heavy so the Yanks can stuff anything they can buy through them.

I don’t know about them being overbuilt; I own four Winchesters all dating back to the early to mid ‘80’s, and all are capable of handling HP steel. None are built like tanks except maybe the trap gun. 

[London Best]

Just now, Scully said:

I don’t know about them being overbuilt; I own four Winchesters all dating back to the early to mid ‘80’s, and all are capable of handling HP steel. None are built like tanks except maybe the trap gun. 

Are they not all built in Japan?

[grahamch]

3 hours ago, London Best said:

And there are no proof laws in USA, so their gun barrels are made stupid thick and heavy so the Yanks can stuff anything they can buy through them.

Not true they follow SAAMI regulations. Gamebore produce very good steel loads we cant get here because we fiollow CIP regs and Denmark for example use SAAMI which are more flexible.

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, London Best said:

Are they not all built in Japan?

Just the 101 variants as far as I’m aware, but built to Winchester spec’. Not overbuilt but still capable of HP steel. 🤷‍♂️

[enfieldspares]

13 hours ago, HantsRob said:

Why do you say that?

genuine question, I have no subject matter knowledge on non-EU carts 

Because they are not constrained by CIP rules (so their stuff is at pressures above and beyond CIP cartridges) and because as many Americans reload their cartridge cases are not the "Euro trash" (as they call it in the USA) cases we see here which mostly are fired and then thrown away. Nothing wrong with either approach, horses for courses, but USA cases are better for reloading.

2 hours ago, grahamch said:

Not true they follow SAAMI regulations. Gamebore produce very good steel loads we cant get here because we fiollow CIP regs and Denmark for example use SAAMI which are more flexible.

As said above.

[Sweet11-87]

people are getting far to hung up on this. Unless you have a purpose built choke designed to pattern steel its totally pointless. safety aside steel patterns tighter so a standard half choke will throw a steel pattern like a lead 3/4ish, even if youre gun can handle it if you push it through too tight a choke that constricts to quick it starts to blow out and youll see more or less the same results on a pattern plate with added stress to the gun. if you want extreme tight patterns for heavy loads of steel get a purpose built choke like a kicks high flyer or pattern master code black. theyre less than £100

as for US being ahead of us, some of the most highly regarded ammo is kent and thats just gamebore USA.they get arguably better ammo as they play by the rulles of SAAMI we play by the rules of CIP and they get hotter higher pressure loads off the shelf but you can load the same spec in the uk if you home load. most 3.5 inch uses i know do. me ive never felt the need in my shooting for more than 36g 3 3"

[Gas seal]

Hi HantsRob. For many years the USA have commercial steel, steel duplex tss, and other non lead cartridges available for most gauge of shotguns. The cartridges are higher pressures than allowed in the U.K. The chokes are made for higher pressure heavy type  hard pellets. Guns like benelli and Tristar ( armsan) are used in the USA with aftermarket chokes the same guns we use in the U.K. Steel has been used in the USA since the 1980s  maybe earlier. The American hulls are much stronger than most European hulls the new Cheddite hulls are very thin plastic now. Thirty five years ago the commercial steel cartridges in the U.K. were not good. I loaded my own cartridges for wildfowl in lead and then in non lead as did other wildfowlers . More testing of guns and cartridges have been done in the USA including in the field shooting different birds by experience shooters and observers detailed reports, including penetrating testing . One report I read the shooters didn’t know what type of cartridges they were using. Sorry for the delay my computer couldn’t get on the site.

[Dave at kelton]

23 hours ago, London Best said:

And there are no proof laws in USA, so their gun barrels are made stupid thick and heavy so the Yanks can stuff anything they can buy through them.

This. We are governed by proof house and CIP. Set aside good English guns se shoot the same as them but there loads are faster and higher pressure for hunting, particularly wildfowl.

21 hours ago, wymberley said:

We (BASC) were using steel some 35 years ago for coaching. As we knew then - and as now - it works. The Americans are not actually miles ahead; more like a few yards. My possibly apparent negativity is borne out of lack of interest on the grounds that I'll never have to use steel. As previously said, all credit to our foreshore 'fowlers who have done us proud with the change. If someone makes something somebody will buy it. Are we going to pay a small fortune (and never mind miles) just to get a few yards ahead? I think not. The traditional driven bird guys will use an homogeneous steel load and the extremists, something pricey. Our 'fowlers will do what they do best without the need, nor the desire, to spend their dosh just to gain a few yards extra range. It's the law of diminishing return.

Exactly and as one who loads their own fowling loads, aside of my 8 bore, I am loading faster loads with heavy shot to cope with the geese at the ranges I have to shoot them. They work well and no damage to any of my guns.