Quality of new guns

[BrowningDJC]

Just wondered if anyone else thinks the quality of modern guns has gone down considerably. 
Friends of mine have had quality problems with both berettas and Caesar guerinis. I’ve always shot brownings and swapped my 425 I had for years for a 725, and the clearcote on the action came off in months. Bought a new A5 sixteen bore which had to go back for a refund as couldn’t get it to cycle, whereas my old B2000 is faultless. 
Gun shop racks seem to be full of guns with hefty price tags but the looks and finish don’t seem to justify them. 

[enfieldspares]

Handwork, fine fitting, costs money. Buyers want everything cheap. A perfect storm. Once upon a time fitting was picking up a part and then actually fitting it. Nowadays it is more likely picking up a part and if it doesn't fit putting it down and picking up the next one in that box and so on until one does fit.

[chesterse]

Think some of the  gunmakers have latched on to built in obsolescence!

[Weihrauch17]

46 minutes ago, BrowningDJC said:

Just wondered if anyone else thinks the quality of modern guns has gone down considerably. 
Friends of mine have had quality problems with both berettas and Caesar guerinis. I’ve always shot brownings and swapped my 425 I had for years for a 725, and the clearcote on the action came off in months. Bought a new A5 sixteen bore which had to go back for a refund as couldn’t get it to cycle, whereas my old B2000 is faultless. 
Gun shop racks seem to be full of guns with hefty price tags but the looks and finish don’t seem to justify them. 

I have a CG Invictus 11 and the fit and finish is superb.

[Acerforestry]

Speaking of old versus new Brownings I recall seeing a Phoenix not too long ago for under 500 quid and frankly based on looks (nice wood and metal) and reputation for reliability I'd take that over a brand new Maxus any day

[Scully]

Interesting. I have always been drawn to older but well cared for used guns rather than new, simply because I like the patina an older gun has.

A new gun just doesn’t have that. 
It’s hard to explain what I mean really, but mass produced middle range guns with laser cut chequering and lettering, simply don’t look quality, and I include some of those I like, such as the Pro Sport and some Perazzi. Maybe they’ll aquire that patina in time, but I can’t see it. 
I have a Winchester 8500 trap gun which has the old orange/red pad on the butt and a very fine thin line in gold on the plain black receiver. The stock has developed a deep lustre with age and use, and it simply oozes quality. 
I watched a video on YouTube at the weekend regarding a 682 SuperSport. Good examples, as mine was, are commanding good prices and are desirable guns despite having no steel shot proofing. The quality is second to none and I have a faint tinge of regret for selling mine. I would much rather own one of those than any new 686, 694 etc. 

Character? Is that what I’m meaning? Can a gun aquire character? 🤷‍♂️

Edited November 27, 2023 by Scully

[Northerner]

Fully agree with Scully there and knows what he means. I was fortunate to inherit most of my guns and the feel of my B25 C3 (early 60's) and B2G (1970 iirc) is totally different to any new browning or beretta i have picked up in a gun shop. Even my Nikko supreme  just feels better in the hand than even a DT11 i held. If i was to buy a new gun the first thing i would do is strip the stock and start again...... 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Northerner

[Wylye]

I agree. Picked up a 30” B2G the other day and was immediately transported back 30 years to when all we ever wanted was a B25. It was a quality gun and felt right - know what I mean? Their current market values are an absolute bargain £2.5k/£3.5k will buy a good one. New price - £12k+? Makes Blasers and CGs look like poor value in my opinion.

[BrowningDJC]

27 minutes ago, Wylye said:

I agree. Picked up a 30” B2G the other day and was immediately transported back 30 years to when all we ever wanted was a B25. It was a quality gun and felt right - know what I mean? Their current market values are an absolute bargain £2.5k/£3.5k will buy a good one. New price - £12k+? Makes Blasers and CGs look like poor value in my opinion.

Definitely know what you mean, I haven’t owned a B2G but have shot a few B25’s, no new gun in that price range would come anywhere close, in my opinion. 

[London Best]

10 minutes ago, BrowningDJC said:

Definitely know what you mean, I haven’t owned a B2G but have shot a few B25’s, no new gun in that price range would come anywhere close, in my opinion. 

Of course it wouldn’t. I think I am right in saying that the B25’s we’re bench-made guns. The mass-produced carp being offered today cannot possibly compare. A proper, bench made shotgun costs loadsa money today. 
That is why a Silver Pigeon costs, what, under two grand? 
And the top guns from the same maker cost, I believe, about eighty thousand.

Edited November 27, 2023 by London Best

[Fargo]

2 hours ago, Wylye said:

I agree. Picked up a 30” B2G the other day and was immediately transported back 30 years to when all we ever wanted was a B25. It was a quality gun and felt right - know what I mean? Their current market values are an absolute bargain £2.5k/£3.5k will buy a good one. New price - £12k+? Makes Blasers and CGs look like poor value in my opinion.

Lovely ex demo B4 30” down the road from you for £3900 and been there for 15 years and he can’t shift it sadly . Such nice quality 

[Wylye]

11 hours ago, Fargo said:

Lovely ex demo B4 30” down the road from you for £3900 and been there for 15 years and he can’t shift it sadly . Such nice quality 

Where’s that?

[Fargo]

13 minutes ago, Wylye said:

Where’s that?

Gunshop in Wimborne 

[wymberley]

19 hours ago, BrowningDJC said:

Just wondered if anyone else thinks the quality of modern guns has gone down considerably. 
Friends of mine have had quality problems with both berettas and Caesar guerinis. I’ve always shot brownings and swapped my 425 I had for years for a 725, and the clearcote on the action came off in months. Bought a new A5 sixteen bore which had to go back for a refund as couldn’t get it to cycle, whereas my old B2000 is faultless. 
Gun shop racks seem to be full of guns with hefty price tags but the looks and finish don’t seem to justify them. 

The makers know what they're doing and the market place. Make it look pretty and sell it for what you think it might fetch without incurring too many costs After all, these are just fashion accessories.

[Fargo]

48 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Gunshop in Wimborne 

He’s also got a F3 Luxus 30” £1195 and can’t move 

The price of new guns is mad…

I remember when a new silver pigeon was £825!

now they are £1800 and have cardboard coloured stocks and are real plain janes. People are mad to buy them new when for £1800 you can buy a really good gun. I think newbies get brainwashed about what to buy - same as cartridges - got to have £600/1000 heavy load to stand a chance of hitting a 30 metre bird 

[Wylye]

58 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Gunshop in Wimborne 

Got it thanks. That Blaser is cheap, surprised he cant shift it. Doesn't use Guntrader though does he? 

[Fargo]

46 minutes ago, Wylye said:

Got it thanks. That Blaser is cheap, surprised he cant shift it. Doesn't use Guntrader though does he? 

No he’s mid to late  70’s and technology isn’t his strong hold. Nice wee shop with some nice guns. Worth a look if you go to Wimborne one day.

[BrowningDJC]

1 hour ago, Fargo said:

He’s also got a F3 Luxus 30” £1195 and can’t move 

The price of new guns is mad…

I remember when a new silver pigeon was £825!

now they are £1800 and have cardboard coloured stocks and are real plain janes. People are mad to buy them new when for £1800 you can buy a really good gun. I think newbies get brainwashed about what to buy - same as cartridges - got to have £600/1000 heavy load to stand a chance of hitting a 30 metre bird 

I’ve seen some terrible looking new silver pigeons. I can too remember when you could buy either a new silver pigeon or new grade 1 browning for under £1000, and they looked better than the equivalent today for in some cases double the price. 

[pux]

My recent Browning ultra XS Pro, is very well made in my opinion, wood on its lovely also.  

[London Best]

3 hours ago, wymberley said:

The makers know what they're doing and the market place. Make it look pretty 

This!
The fastest way to sell a cheaply made gun is to put some pretty wood on it.

3 hours ago, Fargo said:

I think newbies get brainwashed about what to buy - same as cartridges - got to have £600/1000 heavy load to stand a chance of hitting a 30 metre bird 

And this! 
And don’t forget the super-tight chokes and 32 inch barrels. 
Can’t possibly shoot anything without those.

[Scully]

17 hours ago, pux said:

My recent Browning ultra XS Pro, is very well made in my opinion, wood on its lovely also.  

They are indeed very well made, my shooting mate has one, a brand spanker from Kelbrook. 

[pux]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

They are indeed very well made, my shooting mate has one, a brand spanker from Kelbrook. 

I really ummmd and arrrrrrrd about buying a brand new gun, because of what others above have said, you pay a lot but don't get a lot back! Personally my Browning was a good price for me came with all the bells & whistles. My shooting has 100% improved since swapping it for my Beretta. At the end of the day we are all little gun tarts who like the latest shiny gun, if you can afford it and it makes you smile when you use it, buy the gun with the 32" barrels & super tight chokes, you will leave this mortal coil at some point! might as well enjoy your time here. 

[London Best]

15 minutes ago, pux said:

At the end of the day some of us are little gun tarts who like the latest shiny gun,

Fixed it for you.

[JohnfromUK]

I have only ever bought two 'new' guns.  One a cheap Spanish s/s (Union Armeria), the other a smart upmarket Beretta o/u (which came with a very good discount).  Both were over 30 years ago.  I still have the Beretta, now I suspect worth rather more than I paid, though I doubt it has kept up with inflation.

On a personal note, I'd MUCH rather have a nice quality handmade 'vintage' gun than any machine made modern offering.  Both will shoot equally well.

I accept that 'steel proof' may be a driver for some to get new guns, but it is my intention to use 'standard steel' in appropriate loads/cases in my existing lead proofed guns.

[old'un]

21 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I have only ever bought two 'new' guns.  One a cheap Spanish s/s (Union Armeria), the other a smart upmarket Beretta o/u (which came with a very good discount).  Both were over 30 years ago.  I still have the Beretta, now I suspect worth rather more than I paid, though I doubt it has kept up with inflation.

On a personal note, I'd MUCH rather have a nice quality handmade 'vintage' gun than any machine made modern offering.  Both will shoot equally well.

I accept that 'steel proof' may be a driver for some to get new guns, but it is my intention to use 'standard steel' in appropriate loads/cases in my existing lead proofed guns.

I realize a CNC machined gun will need some hand finishing but the question is….is a “hand made gun” better than a CNC machined gun?