Newbie to this Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: Instructed to by the Poison Dwarf no doubt even though it is absolutely nothing to do with them. And completely out of their jurisdiction and remit, another complete waste of Tax payer's money. If ever a Police force needs disbanding, it is the MET. A complete cesspit. Edited January 14 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted January 14 Report Share Posted January 14 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: And completely out of their jurisdiction and remit, another complete waste of Tax payer's money. If ever a Police force needs disbanding, it is the MET. A complete cesspit. Totally agree just like the Poison Dwarf. Edited January 14 by Weihrauch17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 Fujitsu now seem to be accepting a level of responsibility for their errors. Still not a peep out of the civil servants who specced the system up and were responsible for overseeing the initial implementation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 5 hours ago, amateur said: Still not a peep out of the civil servants who specced the system up and were responsible for overseeing the initial implementation. You wont, they consider themselves untouchable and so far this seems to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 5 hours ago, amateur said: Still not a peep out of the civil servants who specced the system up and were responsible for overseeing the initial implementation. I don't think the civil service does apologies. If a mistake was made - it was never them. They are just the implementers for politicians. I have worked with civil servants all my life - and there have been a number of very nice and good people .......... but as an organisation they are the worst. Talk about arrogance, superior attitude, inflexibility, obstinacy and plain stupidity, the civil service is unbeatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: I don't think the civil service does apologies. If a mistake was made - it was never them. They are just the implementers for politicians. I have worked with civil servants all my life - and there have been a number of very nice and good people .......... but as an organisation they are the worst. Talk about arrogance, superior attitude, inflexibility, obstinacy and plain stupidity, the civil service is unbeatable. Presumably, though, they would have been advising the relevant politician, Beckett, Mandleson when it was being specced and implemented. Blair was warned by his SPAD that there were problems with it in 1998 and was reassured by the civil service that all was well. Byers, Hewitt and Alan Johnson were all in post when things were going wrong. All, presumably, kept in the dark by their departmental staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: I have worked with civil servants all my life - and there have been a number of very nice and good people .......... but as an organisation they are the worst. Talk about arrogance, superior attitude, inflexibility, obstinacy and plain stupidity, the civil service is unbeatable. Me too I totally agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said: Me too I totally agree Same hear i did twenty years with them the further up the tree you got you really got your eyes opened and wondered how they got the job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 Well it appears that Fujitsu are starting to own up and accept some of the blame. They bought International Computers Ltd (ICL) the firm that originally created HORIZON, Fujitsu absorbed the firm and ran with Horizon. What a BLOODY shambles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 My dad got to a relatively senior level within ICL but was fired in the late 80s by his boss. He reckons it was still his best career move! Something about a terrible culture aiming to mimic the worst of corporate America. Obviously that’s 35+ years ago so in all likelihood has zero relevance to this wheelie bin fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 ICL in has it's origins from a government initiative by Wilson/Benn; "International Computers Limited was formed in 1968 as a part of the Industrial Expansion Act of the Wilson Labour Government. ICL was an initiative of Tony Benn, the Minister of Technology" It was made up from merging International Computers and Tabulators (ICT) with English Electric Computers, the latter a recent merger of Elliott Automation with English Electric Leo Marconi computers, which itself had been a merger of the computer divisions of English Electric, LEO and Marconi. Source: Wikipedia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: "International Computers Limited was formed in 1968 as a part of the Industrial Expansion Act of the Wilson Labour Government. ICL was an initiative of Tony Benn, the Minister of Technology" Now there is a surprise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 ICL were always rubbish compared to IBM. They were supposed to be the British competition to the all-conquering Americans, but were mainly disregarded by UK industry and were propped up their being awarded unwieldy government contracts. Certainly the companies that I worked for wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 This has messed up lots of peoples life's and i really hope a few people get jail time for what they have done , But if the postmasters get some of the compensation they are due is it not out the public purse again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 2 minutes ago, Bigbob said: This has messed up lots of peoples life's and i really hope a few people get jail time for what they have done , But if the postmasters get some of the compensation they are due is it not out the public purse again Public sector cockup, as the misjustice was due to rigid application of longstanding Post Office rules re SPM responsibilities, although, hopefully ameliorated by a sbstantial contribution from Fujitsu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 1 minute ago, amateur said: Public sector cockup, as the misjustice was due to rigid application of longstanding Post Office rules re SPM responsibilities, although, hopefully ameliorated by a sbstantial contribution from Fujitsu. So compensation instead of the taxpayer Fujitsu will bear the cost i can see them claiming bankruptcy's people took there own lives how much would there kin receive millions ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 20 minutes ago, Bigbob said: So compensation instead of the taxpayer Fujitsu will bear the cost i can see them claiming bankruptcy's people took there own lives how much would there kin receive millions ?. If it came to the crunch, I guess that would depend upon whether or not Fujitsu delivered the system specced out by the civil servants running the Post Office then. If they built it to spec, then the un-named and so far, faceless, members of the blob should be hung out to dry. If it wasn't to spec, then that's down to Fujitsu. The question then should be, why didn't the blob realise that it wasn’t to spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 11 minutes ago, amateur said: If it came to the crunch, I guess that would depend upon whether or not Fujitsu delivered the system specced out by the civil servants running the Post Office then. If they built it to spec, then the un-named and so far, faceless, members of the blob should be hung out to dry. If it wasn't to spec, then that's down to Fujitsu. The question then should be, why didn't the blob realise that it wasn’t to spec. Possibly in the way of all good blobs, they simply didn't bother to oversee as they had dumped responsibility elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 3 minutes ago, old man said: Possibly in the way of all good blobs, they simply didn't bother to oversee as they had dumped responsibility elsewhere? Yes probably unable to do their jobs just said we require a system for , too do so and so and thought that was there job done The higher up the tree you go the more monkeys ***s you see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 15 minutes ago, Bigbob said: Yes probably unable to do their jobs just said we require a system for , too do so and so and thought that was there job done The higher up the tree you go the more monkeys ***s you see They were probably just embracing the culture of their politico masters, "give it all away for an easy life?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 5 minutes ago, old man said: They were probably just embracing the culture of their politico masters, "give it all away for an easy life?" That perfectly sums up B Liar and Broon who oversaw this debacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 1 minute ago, Yellow Bear said: That perfectly sums up B Liar and Broon who oversaw this debacle. TBH, I can't differentiate between any of them, parasites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, amateur said: If it came to the crunch, I guess that would depend upon whether or not Fujitsu delivered the system specced out by the civil servants running the Post Office then. If they built it to spec, then the un-named and so far, faceless, members of the blob should be hung out to dry. If it wasn't to spec, then that's down to Fujitsu. The question then should be, why didn't the blob realise that it wasn’t to spec. Built to spec or not, it was full of bugs and these bugs are where the problems arose. What is criminal is these bugs were know about, yet prosecutions continued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Newbie to this said: Built to spec or not, it was full of bugs and these bugs are where the problems arose. What is criminal is these bugs were know about, yet prosecutions continued. Definitely this /\ /\ /\ How the issues weren't even thought about or discussed by those who 'knew' is a mystery 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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