Negative carbon wind turbine

[islandgun]

Looks a good idea !  Still going to need a shed load of heavy fuel to plant, harvest, process, construct, transport and erect though.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67718719

[JohnfromUK]

I hope it does better than this one. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12907545/New-Years-Eve-weather-chaos-Brits-Storm-Gerrit.html

[ShootingEgg]

Well just think when one of these wooden ones goes wrong and fire guts it... 

Also that's a lot of wood so that's a lot of carbon stores being cut down...

Maybe I'm just finding negatives but pretty easy to find

[oowee]

19 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Well just think when one of these wooden ones goes wrong and fire guts it... 

Also that's a lot of wood so that's a lot of carbon stores being cut down...

Maybe I'm just finding negatives but pretty easy to find

That would be carbon neutral. 😁

[ShootingEgg]

Just now, oowee said:

That would be carbon neutral. 😁

How is it neutral. Only if they produce the elec and don't burn down right. I can't see how using felled trees to make these is anything more than a gimmick. The tree doesn't grow to the shape of a tower. So surely to machine the wood you're burning fuel, to fell the tree your burning fuel, to move the sections you're burning fuel... 🤷🏼‍♂️

[oowee]

13 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

How is it neutral. Only if they produce the elec and don't burn down right. I can't see how using felled trees to make these is anything more than a gimmick. The tree doesn't grow to the shape of a tower. So surely to machine the wood you're burning fuel, to fell the tree your burning fuel, to move the sections you're burning fuel... 🤷🏼‍♂️

You would only need to generate enough electricity to off set the carbon cost of production. Given even the old turbines from the 90's develop 15 meg that would be done very quickly. 

[old man]

Maybe they are related to Robert Stevenson of lighthouse fame? If the glue is as strong as the stuff holding together Ikea laminated worktops the will be ok?

[Scully]

There are some pretty impressive buildings dotted around with structures consisting entirely of glulam beams. I played a hand in building some of them. 
Structural engineers know what they’re doing when it comes to engineered wood. 

[islandgun]

17 hours ago, oowee said:

You would only need to generate enough electricity to off set the carbon cost of production. Given even the old turbines from the 90's develop 15 meg that would be done very quickly. 

Does the carbon cost of production include a percentage cost/footprint of all the infrastructure of all people and equipment involved, I.e  other manufacturers, heavy haulage,  equipment depreciation and maintenance, staff footprint. Land use, the draining of wetlands/moorland etc, the construction and erection of new pylons and powerlines, eventual removal and disposal.  There is a very long list and I suspect no quick fix. However they do seem to be a better idea than the steel ones.😃

[oowee]

2 hours ago, islandgun said:

Does the carbon cost of production include a percentage cost/footprint of all the infrastructure of all people and equipment involved, I.e  other manufacturers, heavy haulage,  equipment depreciation and maintenance, staff footprint. Land use, the draining of wetlands/moorland etc, the construction and erection of new pylons and powerlines, eventual removal and disposal.  There is a very long list and I suspect no quick fix. However they do seem to be a better idea than the steel ones.😃

I guess it includes all that you want to add in including the harvesting cost of the trees. The real test is the economic driver pushing for more as they make strong economic sense. Many (me included) are buying green only energy. 

Two farms that I shoot on have 15mgw turbines on that are restricted to run at only 10 mgw as that was the grant limit on installation. Complete madness. One of them has an additional support pylon stored on the farm to replace the one it stands on to improve access. The spare pylon has been sitting on the farm for ten years at least, unused.  More madness. The turbines are the most productive parts of the farm. You would be hard pressed to even spot them and despite the fact all the support infrastructure is in place there are no moves to add additional turbines. 

I imagine in your part of the world the pressure is on for much more. Many places get the community buy in with free power. Are you seeing any of that? I think natural power generation and water supply could be the USP for an independent Scotland. 

[RCB56]

@Oowee, you maybe "buying" green only energy but you are using the same energy as the rest of us via the National Grid.

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, RCB56 said:

@Oowee, you maybe "buying" green only energy but you are using the same energy as the rest of us via the National Grid.

Of course but making the choice encourages more renewable's to be provided. 

[johnphilip]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

I guess it includes all that you want to add in including the harvesting cost of the trees. The real test is the economic driver pushing for more as they make strong economic sense. Many (me included) are buying green only energy. 

Two farms that I shoot on have 15mgw turbines on that are restricted to run at only 10 mgw as that was the grant limit on installation. Complete madness. One of them has an additional support pylon stored on the farm to replace the one it stands on to improve access. The spare pylon has been sitting on the farm for ten years at least, unused.  More madness. The turbines are the most productive parts of the farm. You would be hard pressed to even spot them and despite the fact all the support infrastructure is in place there are no moves to add additional turbines. 

I imagine in your part of the world the pressure is on for much more. Many places get the community buy in with free power. Are you seeing any of that? I think natural power generation and water supply could be the USP for an independent Scotland. 

There won't be any Independence,  there soon won't be any SNP

[Scully]

I keep hearing that wind turbines are the answer….generating cheap electricity for an untold number of households. 
Is anyone a beneficiary of this ‘cheap’ electricity, or know of anyone who is?  
All I’m aware of is the consistent rise of electricity. 

[johnphilip]

13 minutes ago, Scully said:

I keep hearing that wind turbines are the answer….generating cheap electricity for an untold number of households. 
Is anyone a beneficiary of this ‘cheap’ electricity, or know of anyone who is?  
All I’m aware of is the consistent rise of electricity. 

I don't  fully understand how these things are set up . Surely  if your running your own say on a farm you would need  battery storage. The farm I rent my cottage on he has. 5 , says they are an investment  for his children. The blinking things are always. Breaking. Down . The local.  Fabrication  lad is making a fortune repairing them . 

 People who have solar panels  sell to the grid. But costs them more to buy there electricity. 

[BlaserF3]

20 minutes ago, Scully said:

I keep hearing that wind turbines are the answer….generating cheap electricity for an untold number of households. 
Is anyone a beneficiary of this ‘cheap’ electricity, or know of anyone who is?  
All I’m aware of is the consistent rise of electricity. 

The pub at the summit of Kirkstone Pass used to run on oil but no one could afford the cost of running the building. 

There are now run by, I think three small wind turbines that have made it a viable pub now.

 

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

I keep hearing that wind turbines are the answer….generating cheap electricity for an untold number of households. 
Is anyone a beneficiary of this ‘cheap’ electricity, or know of anyone who is?  
All I’m aware of is the consistent rise of electricity. 

Possibly done on a personal level i.e turbine in the garden and panels on the roof, effective insulation and low energy appliances. There are a few holiday houses in this area promoting themselves as green with the above. I have no idea of payback time, or durability. Presumably a large turbine for a number of houses would work, although they would still need to store energy. I burn home grown coppiced wood on my wood burner but now that's being blamed for toxic emissions

[Mickeydredd]

3 hours ago, Scully said:

I keep hearing that wind turbines are the answer….generating cheap electricity for an untold number of households. 
Is anyone a beneficiary of this ‘cheap’ electricity, or know of anyone who is?  

I currently rent a lodge on a large farm.  It has been set up with two turbines and solar.  Given I’m located on the middle of an Ayrshire moor, wind is in plentiful supply, sun less so!

the turbines supply all my electricity requirements and feed the excess into the grid.  It certainly seems to work well here.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Mickeydredd

[Scully]

10 hours ago, islandgun said:

Possibly done on a personal level i.e turbine in the garden and panels on the roof, effective insulation and low energy appliances. There are a few holiday houses in this area promoting themselves as green with the above. I have no idea of payback time, or durability. Presumably a large turbine for a number of houses would work, although they would still need to store energy. I burn home grown coppiced wood on my wood burner but now that's being blamed for toxic emissions

Possibly, but the campaign by Hugh Fearnley etal is based upon land based wind turbines providing cheap electricity to thousands of homes, but all I’m aware of is increasingly expensive electricity.
When I pointed this out to his campaign, no one replied. 🤷‍♂️

[Down South]

12 hours ago, Scully said:

I keep hearing that wind turbines are the answer….generating cheap electricity for an untold number of households. 
Is anyone a beneficiary of this ‘cheap’ electricity, or know of anyone who is?  
All I’m aware of is the consistent rise of electricity. 

Between the privatised power suppliers, Ofgem and and market pricing the consumer will never have cheap fuel.

14 hours ago, oowee said:

Many (me included) are buying green only energy.

A few years ago my son in law worked for a huge Chinese manufacturer marketing standby power solutions. This was to power suppliers. Massive batteries housed in their own buildings to store the cheapest off peak electricity possible from any source available then sold back to the grid as “green energy”.

11 hours ago, islandgun said:

I burn home grown coppiced wood on my wood burner but now that's being blamed for toxic emissions

Just another erosion of choice. Your free power source cannot be controlled  by outsiders so discredit it then ban it. Carry on as you are I say, I’ve had enough of outsiders telling me how to live my life then try and charge me a fortune to comply with their alternatives. Rant over, happy New Year.

[JohnfromUK]

11 hours ago, islandgun said:

I burn home grown coppiced wood on my wood burner but now that's being blamed for toxic emissions

I think the wood burner 'toxic emissions' relates mainly to when a lot are installed in an urban (or heavily built up location).  It is true they emit particulates and tars, but in a rural location these seem to dissipate very quickly on the wind and I can't see that being a problem.  Personally, I quite like the smell of wood smoke burning decent wood and wood burning in the countryside has been going almost as long as civilisation. 

However, in urban locations and in still cold weather the 'smoke' even if nominally 'smokeless' tends to hang around at road/pavement level.  The other problem (I see locally) is some people burn very poor wood/painted builders waste wood, damp wood etc - and do get quite a lot of smoke.  That can be a problem in built up areas.

My neighbours (bungalow) fairly recently installed a wood burner, and because they are a bungalow and I'm a normal house, their chimney isn't far off the levels of my upstairs windows.  Only very occasionally do I get the smell of smoke inside (I don't burn wood myself) and it isn't a problem, but I can see that IF it was summer and a lot of windows were open, it might be. a problem, but they don't use the log burner in summer as it is used to heat a room, not to cook/heat water.

Our problem locally is that there are many reputable firewood suppliers supplying tested dry wood .......... but it is considerably more expensive than using mains gas.  Lovely to see, but not for those looking to save money.

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, it looks a good idea but for only 400 Homes ?? 

[islandgun]

Ooerr missus

[Newbie to this]

26 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Ooerr missus

Very ECO friendly.

[islandgun]

20 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Very ECO friendly.

Im not so sure I want one in my back garden now