BASC January 2024 podcast - voluntary move away from lead shot for live quarry shooting

[Konor]

3 minutes ago, Scully said:

From past experience grahamch doesn’t converse much beyond the odd trollish remark. 
There’s a few on here who do similar. 

I accept that my opinion will vary from others that are more, less or equally experienced as myself and I do  accept any criticism of those opinions.

However I also take the time to reply as a matter of courtesy to anyone who disagrees with me and may concede a point or defend my views as required. I try not to think of it in terms of winning or losing just representing the views I and maybe others hold on the forum.

Those views can always change or be modified by a well constructed and insightful argument.
Sort of the evolve bit grahamch mentioned without the inconvenience of the dying part 😂

[Konor]

1 hour ago, HantsRob said:

I wouldn't say any are rolling over, more that they just accept their single voice doesn't count, and they do not wish to invest time in a fight when they have more important things on their personal agenda.

I agree wholeheartedly that unfortunately most shooters will have more important things on their personal agenda  than having time to invest in fighting against lead shot regulations and this is why I think it is so important that BASC fight on our behalf to represent the views of all shooters.Unfortunately I just don’t think that BASC are doing that which is also compounded by what I consider to be arrogant and dismissive replies from Conor O’Gorman ,who incidentally is yet to answer a straight question with a straight answer.

 I have really only had the time to post so much as I was ill with Covid prior to Christmas and have had a few days owed annual leave so have had a little extra time available recently so I appreciate that time constraints can influence people’s ability to voice their opinions and am not judging anyone’s lack of involvement for indifference 

[wymberley]

55 minutes ago, Scully said:

Good post. 👍

Well, except for the last paragraph. 😉

I am more than ready and willing to argue with all and sundry, including fellow shooters.
This is my way of life, my passion, matched by the monumental frustration I experience at the inability ( or a lack of will? ) of our shooting organisations ( I no longer consider any of them representatives ) and the lethargic indifference of the vast vast majority of so called shooters who can’t even be bothered to click on a link and fill in a questionnaire to put their point of view across. 
And if anyone thinks I only give faceless online shooters a hard time, you couldn’t be more wrong. It happens to mates and indeed our small syndicate members, and there are more than a few hypocrites on here I would gladly meet up with to point out the error of their ways. 🙂

Steady on, Scully, with the exception of the means of communication you're starting to sound like Conor. 

[Konor]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Good post. 👍

Well, except for the last paragraph. 😉

I am more than ready and willing to argue with all and sundry, including fellow shooters.
This is my way of life, my passion, matched by the monumental frustration I experience at the inability ( or a lack of will? ) of our shooting organisations ( I no longer consider any of them representatives ) and the lethargic indifference of the vast vast majority of so called shooters who can’t even be bothered to click on a link and fill in a questionnaire to put their point of view across. 
And if anyone thinks I only give faceless online shooters a hard time, you couldn’t be more wrong. It happens to mates and indeed our small syndicate members, and there are more than a few hypocrites on here I would gladly meet up with to point out the error of their ways. 🙂

More strength to you Scully regarding taking others to task.
I find it a shame sometimes when there seems to be little common ground in some disagreements but find that a lack of perspective can occur when people are so focused that they don’t see the bigger picture. I think we’ve probably all been there. Clarity in discussing your point if it’s just can be a great aid in winning those over to your point of view, as you will no doubt know. In truth most shooters should be striving for the same goals the most important being freedom to enjoy our sport at a sustainable level with equipment  that is fit for purpose. A humane end to our quarry’s life is our responsibility that and ensuring game is fit for the table should be at the forefront of our mind when we are considering the suitability of our ammunition. Our shooting organisations should be doing their utmost to ensure we are able to continue to make that happen. Sometimes I don’t think that is their primary concern.

[wymberley]

19 minutes ago, Konor said:

More strength to you Scully regarding taking others to task.
I find it a shame sometimes when there seems to be little common ground in some disagreements but find that a lack of perspective can occur when people are so focused that they don’t see the bigger picture. I think we’ve probably all been there. Clarity in discussing your point if it’s just can be a great aid in winning those over to your point of view, as you will no doubt know. In truth most shooters should be striving for the same goals the most important being freedom to enjoy our sport at a sustainable level with equipment  that is fit for purpose. A humane end to our quarry’s life is our responsibility that and ensuring game is fit for the table should be at the forefront of our mind when we are considering the suitability of our ammunition. Our shooting organisations should be doing their utmost to ensure we are able to continue to make that happen. Sometimes I don’t think that is their primary concern.

Well said and that's a wrap as it brings us full circle. Trouble is that it's only we old farts who remember:-

(i) Safe to use

(ii) Effective

(iii) Affordable

(iv) Non-toxic

Edited January 16 by wymberley

[Konor]

3 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Well said and that's a wrap as it brings us full circle. Trouble is that it's only we old farts that remember:-

(i) Safe to use

(ii) Effective

(iii) Affordable

(iv) Non-toxic

👍

Thats it in a nut shell Wymberley  I’m left feeling “when were the goal posts moved” and all I can come up with is a vocal antifieldsports movement capitalising on the concession that we should all move to non lead ammunition coupled with BASC unwilling to fight against any future legislation as opposed to just disagreeing with it.

Its hard to know anything for sure when you are not in the loop especially when your own national organisation fails to clarify the situation and seems loathe to pick up the gauntlet and fight for a future that could ensure more old vintage guns , a massive part of our sporting heritage ,continue to be used.

[Conor O'Gorman]

On 13/01/2024 at 21:10, Konor said:

For clarity’s sake I think you are saying that the use of lead shot in Damascus barrelled shotguns will be under the same restrictions as any modern shotgun ie that BASC will not be seeking any concessions for Damascus barrelled shotguns though in fairness you haven’t made that crystal clear.

Could you clarify your reference to realistic time frames and buy back scheme in your reply to my specific question regarding Damascus barrelled shotguns ?

It is absolutely clear what BASC is asking for in relation to shotgun ammunition if you please take the time to read BASC's two response documents or even just a summary of that. Despite your continued personal remarks about me and belligerent BASC bashing I am willing to discuss your concerns and queries on the phone, whether or not you are a BASC member.

[Conor O'Gorman]

On 13/01/2024 at 22:04, Old farrier said:

I’d like to go however geographically it’s expensive and my guns don’t fit your criteria 

so a expensive day to find out what? 
sorry sir to much choke 

chambers to short 

wrong caliber 

To speak to experts from BASC and ask all the questions you wish. 

[Scully]

41 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

To speak to experts from BASC and ask all the questions you wish. 

Many questions have been asked Conor, its answers we’re short of. 🤷‍♂️

[Fil]

7 hours ago, grahamch said:

 

Evolve or die I guess.

 

Which was pretty much the exact arrogant reply I got from BASC.

Old **** here. One who has over 20 years invested in some wonderful Edwardian guns to hand over to my sons when I hang up my tweed for good. No Purdeys or H&H's.... yet. I'm not of that money before you start saying well stop whining, you can afford Tungsten or Bismuth then. Which is also what BASC said to me in their reply when I stopped my membership.  (Yes they did!)

I too game shoot on a small budget. I managed to get into a friendly little self run syndicate this season as to buy a day now for me is out of the question due to cost. (£600.00 for a 70 bird day as opposed to £250- 300 a few years back) I clay shoot a bit more nowadays to enjoy my guns. And I don't go game shooting just to kill birds. I know a lot of people that do. They turn up with their chosen implement, shoot what flies over them and go home. I'm not saying that's wrong either. Each to their own. But I have an interest in the history of our shooting and gun making. Many times I have been caught staring at the engraving or the Damascus patterns as they glint in the sun whilst not even seeing that bird whistle by and mates shouting "Wake up"!! I sometimes wonder where my Westley Richards 'Ovundo' has been used whilst I admire it waiting for the drive to start. And when I drop that 'corker' to add to the 25 bird bag with something made in 1910 that makes the day even more worth while for me. Not how many. Now if that's an old **** looking through rose tinted glasses then guilty as charged. I certainly don't want a tool just to do the job when it comes to driven or walked up game shooting. I want to be able to carry on enjoying our gun making history against the same quarry they fired in anger at over 100 years ago. I'm not against modern guns either. I have great fun using a pump on the pigeons. And a custom GD5 Browning 325 on sim days when I have the money for a sim day. I also think the most wonderful gun out there is the older 28" Beretta silver pigeon 20 bore with fixed chokes. It is an absolute joy to shoot. And shoot steel it will. But you may agree (or not) the history and wonder of a gun made in 2003 bears nothing on the history and craftsmanship of a hand made gun assembled over 100 years ago. And I'll happily shoot with an affordable and humane alternative that is suitable for my light weight vintage guns. And I'm not convinced that steel is it.  So I am with the Old Farriers, the Konors and the Scully's on this. This is my passion, and my way of life too. And I didn't think my membership money was going towards fighting our corner enough. The give a little to appease "them" and help public image is not my way of thinking. We will never appease an anti. Ever. So fight harder and stop rolling over. It's okay to evolve too. But that takes time.

[Conor O'Gorman]

17 minutes ago, Scully said:

Many questions have been asked Conor, its answers we’re short of. 🤷‍♂️

They are questions asked for which the answers are there in BASC consultation responses. And phone calls have been offered to help several people on this forum who continue to inexplicably refuse to take up the offer.  You took up the offer and I thought it helpful and I respect you for that and we also continue to interact in writing here on this forum.

[Graham M]

55 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

speak to experts from BASC and ask all the questions you wish. 

And if you are very lucky you may even get a couple of answers................

Unless you ask the wrong questions, in which case you will either be ignored or given a pre-written set of answers to completely different questions to the ones you asked...........or given a link to how BASC are fighting to reverse the voluntary lead ban that THEY instigated ................but they say they didn't because they are not anti-lead..............even though  they want non-toxic shot to be used ....................or not..............maybe...............................

 

This is worse than watching the news when MPs are asked to defend one of their ideas that went wrong.

 

"I wasn't lying, I was just being economical with the truth"...............

 

150,000 members so they don't mind if this drops to 149,000 members (who are probably still unaware of what's going on until they suddenly realise that their guns are now useless).

[Old farrier]

49 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

To speak to experts from BASC and ask all the questions you wish. 

Can you guarantee that they will answer any my questions?
Or will tell me what I already know and flannel around the issue

I’ve got plenty of questions to ask id be surprised if any of your reps can or will answer them 

Now sadly you’re reply doesn’t help with geography however tell me what dates are available and venue’s and I’ll have a day off and attend 

 

Is there likely to be a qualified gunsmith there ?or someone who actually shoots pheasants?         Possibly a cartridge manufacturer? 

first question 

how much do I need to bore out of my fixed choke gun to get me full choke with steel ?

[Konor]

59 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

It is absolutely clear what BASC is asking for in relation to shotgun ammunition if you please take the time to read BASC's two response documents or even just a summary of that. Despite your continued personal remarks about me and belligerent BASC bashing I am willing to discuss your concerns and queries on the phone, whether or not you are a BASC member.

I have read all the BASC sourced information and have asked you to clarify issues that are not covered within that information. You continue to evade clarifying those issues  as you have done in this latest post. While you may say that you /BASC disagree with any further legislation on the use of lead shot can you say what you are doing specifically to oppose it as relying on a voluntary ban as I’m sure you are aware will not cut it. Where are the plans for concessions to allow vintage arms to continue to be used with lead shot for example or are they being thrown under the bus with the smaller shorter chambered bores.

The remarks made by me regarding the inconsistent approach of BASC to the banning of lead ammunition I feel are justified under the circumstances and the belligerent bashing of BASC as you call it would have been avoided if you had answered sincere straight forward questions with sincere straight forward answers.

My position is straightforward ,clear and contained within my previous posts, I have no intention of spending my time repeating myself ad nauseum . You are more than welcome to look through those posts and reply accordingly should you wish.

 If your only contribution is to request that I phone you to debate in private a subject that you brought up yourself on a public forum then sorry Conor it will not be happening.

[Konor]

37 minutes ago, Fil said:

Which was pretty much the exact arrogant reply I got from BASC.

Old **** here. One who has over 20 years invested in some wonderful Edwardian guns to hand over to my sons when I hang up my tweed for good. No Purdeys or H&H's.... yet. I'm not of that money before you start saying well stop whining, you can afford Tungsten or Bismuth then. Which is also what BASC said to me in their reply when I stopped my membership.  (Yes they did!)

I too game shoot on a small budget. I managed to get into a friendly little self run syndicate this season as to buy a day now for me is out of the question due to cost. (£600.00 for a 70 bird day as opposed to £250- 300 a few years back) I clay shoot a bit more nowadays to enjoy my guns. And I don't go game shooting just to kill birds. I know a lot of people that do. They turn up with their chosen implement, shoot what flies over them and go home. I'm not saying that's wrong either. Each to their own. But I have an interest in the history of our shooting and gun making. Many times I have been caught staring at the engraving or the Damascus patterns as they glint in the sun whilst not even seeing that bird whistle by and mates shouting "Wake up"!! I sometimes wonder where my Westley Richards 'Ovundo' has been used whilst I admire it waiting for the drive to start. And when I drop that 'corker' to add to the 25 bird bag with something made in 1910 that makes the day even more worth while for me. Not how many. Now if that's an old **** looking through rose tinted glasses then guilty as charged. I certainly don't want a tool just to do the job when it comes to driven or walked up game shooting. I want to be able to carry on enjoying our gun making history against the same quarry they fired in anger at over 100 years ago. I'm not against modern guns either. I have great fun using a pump on the pigeons. And a custom GD5 Browning 325 on sim days when I have the money for a sim day. I also think the most wonderful gun out there is the older 28" Beretta silver pigeon 20 bore with fixed chokes. It is an absolute joy to shoot. And shoot steel it will. But you may agree (or not) the history and wonder of a gun made in 2003 bears nothing on the history and craftsmanship of a hand made gun assembled over 100 years ago. And I'll happily shoot with an affordable and humane alternative that is suitable for my light weight vintage guns. And I'm not convinced that steel is it.  So I am with the Old Farriers, the Konors and the Scully's on this. This is my passion, and my way of life too. And I didn't think my membership money was going towards fighting our corner enough. The give a little to appease "them" and help public image is not my way of thinking. We will never appease an anti. Ever. So fight harder and stop rolling over. It's okay to evolve too. But that takes time.

Well said and encapsulates my way of thinking completely. The emotional investment that is such a large part of the older generations experience where shooting is almost a way of life rather than a hobby should not be lightly discarded.It’s our generation that will be losing out the most with the introduction of a blanket ban on lead shot so don’t be surprised Conor/BASC when that loss is resented and your inconsistent and weak leadership are held partly to blame.

Edited January 16 by Konor
Addition

[London Best]

46 minutes ago, Fil said:

Which was pretty much the exact arrogant reply I got from BASC.

Old **** here. One who has over 20 years invested in some wonderful Edwardian guns to hand over to my sons when I hang up my tweed for good. No Purdeys or H&H's.... yet. I'm not of that money before you start saying well stop whining, you can afford Tungsten or Bismuth then. Which is also what BASC said to me in their reply when I stopped my membership.  (Yes they did!)

I too game shoot on a small budget. I managed to get into a friendly little self run syndicate this season as to buy a day now for me is out of the question due to cost. (£600.00 for a 70 bird day as opposed to £250- 300 a few years back) I clay shoot a bit more nowadays to enjoy my guns. And I don't go game shooting just to kill birds. I know a lot of people that do. They turn up with their chosen implement, shoot what flies over them and go home. I'm not saying that's wrong either. Each to their own. But I have an interest in the history of our shooting and gun making. Many times I have been caught staring at the engraving or the Damascus patterns as they glint in the sun whilst not even seeing that bird whistle by and mates shouting "Wake up"!! I sometimes wonder where my Westley Richards 'Ovundo' has been used whilst I admire it waiting for the drive to start. And when I drop that 'corker' to add to the 25 bird bag with something made in 1910 that makes the day even more worth while for me. Not how many. Now if that's an old **** looking through rose tinted glasses then guilty as charged. I certainly don't want a tool just to do the job when it comes to driven or walked up game shooting. I want to be able to carry on enjoying our gun making history against the same quarry they fired in anger at over 100 years ago. I'm not against modern guns either. I have great fun using a pump on the pigeons. And a custom GD5 Browning 325 on sim days when I have the money for a sim day. I also think the most wonderful gun out there is the older 28" Beretta silver pigeon 20 bore with fixed chokes. It is an absolute joy to shoot. And shoot steel it will. But you may agree (or not) the history and wonder of a gun made in 2003 bears nothing on the history and craftsmanship of a hand made gun assembled over 100 years ago. And I'll happily shoot with an affordable and humane alternative that is suitable for my light weight vintage guns. And I'm not convinced that steel is it.  So I am with the Old Farriers, the Konors and the Scully's on this. This is my passion, and my way of life too. And I didn't think my membership money was going towards fighting our corner enough. The give a little to appease "them" and help public image is not my way of thinking. We will never appease an anti. Ever. So fight harder and stop rolling over. It's okay to evolve too. But that takes time.

Excellent post. 
Pretty much mirrors my view too.

[Gordon R]

Conor - I admire your consistent approach. Answer nothing, but offer a private phone call to smooth things over. 

You cannot seem to understand why people don't take up your "excellent" offer. Nothing down in writing, no answers for others to see, no record of who said what etc. I can't believe you are so naive.

Your record outside this forum suggests some intelligence. It is a shame that your evasive contributions on here reflect none.

[HantsRob]

8 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

You cannot seem to understand why people don't take up your "excellent" offer. Nothing down in writing, no answers for others to see, no record of who said what etc. I can't believe you are so naive.

In fairness, you have written in your own words why it is not naive..... 

I have had the opportunity for a call and I have politely declined, as I am not one to make notes and publicly post the outcome as it can always be disputed and bring my reputation into question. I would prefer it to be written transparently. 

A call does however mean you can "battle" back and forth with opinions, but my fear is that if it cannot be posted online, then it probably wouldn't be shared in a conversation.

I do think BASC represents all shooters! Except for clay shooters. Oh and anyone that has a different opinion. Or isn't on the same page with their ideas. Or belongs to another organisation. Or won't let you speak to contacts unless you're a member so they have every detail about you.  That said at least there is some communication, even if mostly 1 way.

[Smudger687]

14 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

They are questions asked for which the answers are there in BASC consultation responses. And phone calls have been offered to help several people on this forum who continue to inexplicably refuse to take up the offer.  You took up the offer and I thought it helpful and I respect you for that and we also continue to interact in writing here on this forum.

BASC publicly made statements that are demonstrably false, and when challenged to publicly defend these positions, you have repeatedly refused to offer an explanation. You even brushed off empirical test results and mathematics as nothing more than a matter of opinion, yet elevated the opinions of BASC staff almost to that of Gospel. A private phone call to the one calling you out is not intended to solve the issue, it's intended to shut them up.

Edited January 17 by Smudger687

[holloway]

15 hours ago, Fil said:

Which was pretty much the exact arrogant reply I got from BASC.

Old **** here. One who has over 20 years invested in some wonderful Edwardian guns to hand over to my sons when I hang up my tweed for good. No Purdeys or H&H's.... yet. I'm not of that money before you start saying well stop whining, you can afford Tungsten or Bismuth then. Which is also what BASC said to me in their reply when I stopped my membership.  (Yes they did!)

I too game shoot on a small budget. I managed to get into a friendly little self run syndicate this season as to buy a day now for me is out of the question due to cost. (£600.00 for a 70 bird day as opposed to £250- 300 a few years back) I clay shoot a bit more nowadays to enjoy my guns. And I don't go game shooting just to kill birds. I know a lot of people that do. They turn up with their chosen implement, shoot what flies over them and go home. I'm not saying that's wrong either. Each to their own. But I have an interest in the history of our shooting and gun making. Many times I have been caught staring at the engraving or the Damascus patterns as they glint in the sun whilst not even seeing that bird whistle by and mates shouting "Wake up"!! I sometimes wonder where my Westley Richards 'Ovundo' has been used whilst I admire it waiting for the drive to start. And when I drop that 'corker' to add to the 25 bird bag with something made in 1910 that makes the day even more worth while for me. Not how many. Now if that's an old **** looking through rose tinted glasses then guilty as charged. I certainly don't want a tool just to do the job when it comes to driven or walked up game shooting. I want to be able to carry on enjoying our gun making history against the same quarry they fired in anger at over 100 years ago. I'm not against modern guns either. I have great fun using a pump on the pigeons. And a custom GD5 Browning 325 on sim days when I have the money for a sim day. I also think the most wonderful gun out there is the older 28" Beretta silver pigeon 20 bore with fixed chokes. It is an absolute joy to shoot. And shoot steel it will. But you may agree (or not) the history and wonder of a gun made in 2003 bears nothing on the history and craftsmanship of a hand made gun assembled over 100 years ago. And I'll happily shoot with an affordable and humane alternative that is suitable for my light weight vintage guns. And I'm not convinced that steel is it.  So I am with the Old Farriers, the Konors and the Scully's on this. This is my passion, and my way of life too. And I didn't think my membership money was going towards fighting our corner enough. The give a little to appease "them" and help public image is not my way of thinking. We will never appease an anti. Ever. So fight harder and stop rolling over. It's okay to evolve too. But that takes time.

An excellent post that exactly mirrors my own views especially with your English guns i can see exactly were your coming from ,i started using Bismuth and steel years ago with all of mine although to be fair everything i used in the early days was home loaded.

I gave up with Bismuth years ago because of the cost although it worked well enough for me. I moved to shop bought steel almost exclusively last season as there are so many efficient alternatives available even with bio degradable wads which we all ought to be using anyway.Its well worth having a search through the Just cartridges site to see how much is available ,still limited with small bores i'm afraid if you don't load your own but getting better all the time.

I know you have your doubts about steel as did many but from my own experience and many others it works humanely and it hasn't harmed any of my guns ,the English ones couldn't have been made any better anyway ,if the bargain basement Turks live through the massive recoil and huge pellets lurching up the tube 🤣your quality English stuff in good condition will be fine .

[Fil]

1 hour ago, holloway said:

I know you have your doubts about steel as did many but from my own experience and many others it works humanely and it hasn't harmed any of my guns ,the English ones couldn't have been made any better anyway ,if the bargain basement Turks live through the massive recoil and huge pellets lurching up the tube 🤣your quality English stuff in good condition will be fine .

Thanks. 

LOL. Spot on about the Turkish guns. 

[ShootingEgg]

7 hours ago, HantsRob said:

A call does however mean you can "battle" back and forth with opinions, but my fear is that if it cannot be posted online, then it probably wouldn't be shared in a conversation

A Zoom conference call would be one way for a group of PW members to have a conversation with @Conor O'Gorman maybe? Make sure that it is a calm and productive call, could always record it so that it can be watched back. I have a feeling that Conor is redirecting back to the original link to BASCs position as that is what he has been told to do from the top down. Like in any business etc, the people at the top pull the strings and the lower levels do as told.

[Conor O'Gorman]

8 hours ago, Smudger687 said:

BASC publicly made statements that are demonstrably false, and when challenged to publicly defend these positions, you have repeatedly refused to offer an explanation. You even brushed off empirical test results and mathematics as nothing more than a matter of opinion, yet elevated the opinions of BASC staff almost to that of Gospel. A private phone call to the one calling you out is not intended to solve the issue, it's intended to shut them up.

I have to say my patience is wearing a bit thin now. Some people were interviewed on a BASC podcast and you have your own opinions that differ from those opinions. So be it. Perhaps I am being old school but in my experience it is normal to talk to people on the phone to discuss concerns and queries. It's certainly not to 'shut you up'. You don't want to discuss your concerns direct with BASC and prefer to type away on your keyboard on this forum? Fair enough, that's your choice. But take responsibility for your own decisions please and please don't lay your blame on my door.

[Konor]

27 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I have to say my patience is wearing a bit thin now.

My patience wore thin long ago Conor your initial unfounded claims of belligerence ,your refusal to answer straight forward questions and your inability to clarify BASCs intentions I think has worn thin the patience of quite a few on this forum. A quick read through this thread should substantiate my claims. It’s ironic that you should be asking anyone to take responsibility for their own decisions when you have spent the whole of this thread avoiding taking responsibility for BASC’s decisions. The politics of BASC’s decision making is no excuse for your failure to address the issues directly neither is it justification for your dismissive arrogant attitude.

I would urge you to read through this thread carefully and be aware of your shortcomings in your replies to previous posts and consider replying directly to the issues raised if you hope to retain any credibility as the voice of shooting

Edited January 17 by Konor
Addition

[Conor O'Gorman]

2 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

A Zoom conference call would be one way for a group of PW members to have a conversation with @Conor O'Gorman maybe? Make sure that it is a calm and productive call, could always record it so that it can be watched back. I have a feeling that Conor is redirecting back to the original link to BASCs position as that is what he has been told to do from the top down. Like in any business etc, the people at the top pull the strings and the lower levels do as told.

Thanks, I appreciate you mean well, but we are talking about a small group of people that refuse to engage offline and appear close minded to any information other than their own comments on this forum. They don't appear to read the information posted and their sense of entitlement is off the scale believing that my spare time on this forum is to serve their individual needs. Everyone knows how to contact me by PM and BASC members get priority.

Nobody in BASC is telling me to redirect back to BASC's position. It is BASC's position and it is simple as that. The expectation that I will interpret and comment on BASC positions off the cuff to a few people on this forum posting their own opinions and demanding comment on their opinions is frankly ridiculous.

I have commented on this before and will remind people again that I post on here as a BASC member and someone that works for BASC. That is my personal choice and I have done so since 2008 and the trade off between the meaningful feedback to inform my work on policy development plus support for campaigns versus the personal abuse has always been in favour of the positive aspects but of late I increasingly question whether its worth it anymore.