Decoy shy Pigeons

[bunny_blaster]

In the last few weeks my pigeon exploits have been non existent due to me getting my pheasants and partridge and starting an extension on my house. In the week I got text from a mate of mine saying pigeons in big numbers on spring wheat stubble and I could resist. I didn’t get chance to look before hand so this morning I quickly fed around and headed to the farm. I arrived to a good number of birds already feeding and a good line joining. After watching for half an hour I got set up but it soon became obvious the birds weren’t interested in decoying. I tried everything but they didn’t want to know. The line was non stop with huge numbers coming and going throughout the afternoon but I managed to scrap together a respectable bag of 133 pigeon. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well done   

[Deadeyealan]

Scrap together 133 wow that's a great result well done.

[mossy835]

well done nice

[Wilts#Dave]

Nicely scraped together 👍🏼

[clangerman]

good effort there can’t complain with 133 in the bag 

[marsh man]

Just go to show that not all your local Pigeons are decoy shy , at least 133 were not paying attention , the P / W reports have very nearly dried up now and the first ones have already been showing up on this years o s r that is growing well and is already around 6 / 9 above ground .

Well done and THANKS for posting .

[pigeon controller]

Well done Ben, that’s an excellent result for non- decoying birds. Nice to see that you’ve got your priorities right .

 

[old'un]

That's a nice bag of pigeons in anyone's book, well done.

Funny you mention them not decoying well, I was out on some spring barley stubble earlier in the week and they were very reluctant to decoy, they just kept flying up and down this very long strip of woodland so most of my shots were on flighting birds (which I really enjoy) there were some big number and a lot of young birds zipping in and out of the tree line, ended up with 68, most shot flighting and 23 of them were young birds.

 

[marsh man]

5 hours ago, old'un said:

That's a nice bag of pigeons in anyone's book, well done.

Funny you mention them not decoying well, I was out on some spring barley stubble earlier in the week and they were very reluctant to decoy, they just kept flying up and down this very long strip of woodland so most of my shots were on flighting birds (which I really enjoy) there were some big number and a lot of young birds zipping in and out of the tree line, ended up with 68, most shot flighting and 23 of them were young birds.

 

Some excellent sport to finish up with 68 , I wonder what that would had cost if they had long tails and you were standing on a peg , whatever it was it would had made a serious dent in my bank account 

23 is a high proportion of young ones , going by that rate they must have had a very breading season . I have already seen a few going on this year o s r , but then there is very little around here now for them to feed on . 

[Wilts#Dave]

50 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Some excellent sport to finish up with 68 , I wonder what that would had cost if they had long tails and you were standing on a peg , whatever it was it would had made a serious dent in my bank account 

23 is a high proportion of young ones , going by that rate they must have had a very breading season . I have already seen a few going on this year o s r , but then there is very little around here now for them to feed on . 

To fire the sort of shells I do on a busy day would cost me far more than I could ever afford at driven long tails 🤣

I do enjoy the odd driven days I’ve had, invites mostly but it’s a completely different experience where pulling the trigger and filling the bag like I do on a pigeon day is not the main priority. 
I wish I could afford to do more if I’m honest, as the winter is often a long one for me with very limited opportunities to get out decoying but it’s just got so expensive now with a young family I just can’t warrant spending the money on it. 

[marsh man]

54 minutes ago, Wilts#Dave said:

To fire the sort of shells I do on a busy day would cost me far more than I could ever afford at driven long tails 🤣

I do enjoy the odd driven days I’ve had, invites mostly but it’s a completely different experience where pulling the trigger and filling the bag like I do on a pigeon day is not the main priority. 
I wish I could afford to do more if I’m honest, as the winter is often a long one for me with very limited opportunities to get out decoying but it’s just got so expensive now with a young family I just can’t warrant spending the money on it. 

I know exactly what you mean Dave when it come down to expense , not sure what the cost of per bird is this year but on a commercial shoot I don't think you would get a lot of change from around £40 / 45 per bird and a lot of places wouldn't put a day on for less than a 100 bird day , I have been a part of shoots for a good many years and I now enjoy helping out more than I do standing on a peg , I know when my employers mother was alive her and her husband would come on nearly all the family days shoots , her husband would go off with the guns and she would spend the day with the beaters and the helpers , she enjoyed that more than standing with the family members on the pegs , I am the same , even on our beaters day last season I didn't take my gun out till after dinner and even then I was a back gun so I could go where I liked and didn't have to stand on a peg for ages until the drive was nearly over .

No way could I justify spending a minimum of 4 /5 hundred pounds now I am running my house by myself and believe or not if I spent that sort of money on a days shooting it would actually spoil my day .

I know it is the luck of the draw on what number peg you start off with but I have had some very unlucky pegs , I got an invite from my boss to be his guest on a 150 bird day  when it was my 60th birthday and as it turned out it was my retirement gift from him as well , I had put the guns out on these pegs loads of times and I thought I was in for some good shooting , to cut a long story short , it seemed whatever peg I was on the birds came either side and as I was a guest I didn't want to stretch my barrels when it was nearer for my neighbour , by the end of the day I never got through a box of shells and even the keeper felt sorry for me by not accepting a tip , that alone would had been a first for many keepers 

[old'un]

14 hours ago, marsh man said:

Some excellent sport to finish up with 68 , I wonder what that would had cost if they had long tails and you were standing on a peg , whatever it was it would had made a serious dent in my bank account 

23 is a high proportion of young ones , going by that rate they must have had a very breading season . I have already seen a few going on this year o s r , but then there is very little around here now for them to feed on . 

Yep, I did have the hide and decoys out to start with but they were very reluctant to decoy, if I can get on a good line of flighting pigeons I will go for this over a hide and decoys, the birds are more testing and the kill to cartridge ratio takes a tumble but you get every shot in the book and there's no better shooting when you connect with that high bird in a puff of feathers and it hits the ground 80 yards down the field.

Most of the birds that come to this farm/fields are from the town where I think they have a greater success rate in rearing their young, I would say the number of young birds this year is a little higher but September is the month I would expect to see the biggest numbers, during the summer the farm pulls some very big numbers, mainly on laid corn and stubble, once the fields are cultivated you will be lucky to see a pigeon as there is no rape on the farm.

 

[Bigbob]

For them struggling to decoy thats still really good numbers 

[kitchrat]

On 29/09/2024 at 20:34, marsh man said:

I know exactly what you mean Dave when it come down to expense , not sure what the cost of per bird is this year but on a commercial shoot I don't think you would get a lot of change from around £40 / 45 per bird and a lot of places wouldn't put a day on for less than a 100 bird day , I have been a part of shoots for a good many years and I now enjoy helping out more than I do standing on a peg , I know when my employers mother was alive her and her husband would come on nearly all the family days shoots , her husband would go off with the guns and she would spend the day with the beaters and the helpers , she enjoyed that more than standing with the family members on the pegs , I am the same , even on our beaters day last season I didn't take my gun out till after dinner and even then I was a back gun so I could go where I liked and didn't have to stand on a peg for ages until the drive was nearly over .

No way could I justify spending a minimum of 4 /5 hundred pounds now I am running my house by myself and believe or not if I spent that sort of money on a days shooting it would actually spoil my day .

I know it is the luck of the draw on what number peg you start off with but I have had some very unlucky pegs , I got an invite from my boss to be his guest on a 150 bird day  when it was my 60th birthday and as it turned out it was my retirement gift from him as well , I had put the guns out on these pegs loads of times and I thought I was in for some good shooting , to cut a long story short , it seemed whatever peg I was on the birds came either side and as I was a guest I didn't want to stretch my barrels when it was nearer for my neighbour , by the end of the day I never got through a box of shells and even the keeper felt sorry for me by not accepting a tip , that alone would had been a first for many keepers 

Recently I saw the price of driven grouse on some fancy estate, and working from that, my best pigeon day this winter (150) would have cost about £16,000 plus ammo (200+@ 50p each) plus tip......

Not such good sport and no fieldcraft needed either.

[kitchrat]

On 28/09/2024 at 00:21, bunny_blaster said:

In the last few weeks my pigeon exploits have been non existent due to me getting my pheasants and partridge and starting an extension on my house. In the week I got text from a mate of mine saying pigeons in big numbers on spring wheat stubble and I could resist. I didn’t get chance to look before hand so this morning I quickly fed around and headed to the farm. I arrived to a good number of birds already feeding and a good line joining. After watching for half an hour I got set up but it soon became obvious the birds weren’t interested in decoying. I tried everything but they didn’t want to know. The line was non stop with huge numbers coming and going throughout the afternoon but I managed to scrap together a respectable bag of 133 pigeon. 

I don't know about decoy shy, from the numbers you shoot they must decoy well but here in Essex they wouldn't come near your hide, except in times of extreme hunger. Even permanent bale hides don't really work. If you can see it, they won't have it, I know Peter Theobald shoots 1000's not far away from me but they are really fussy round here. An upside down bird is a massive NO-NO for example.

[Wilts#Dave]

6 hours ago, kitchrat said:

Recently I saw the price of driven grouse on some fancy estate, and working from that, my best pigeon day this winter (150) would have cost about £16,000 plus ammo (200+@ 50p each) plus tip......

Not such good sport and no fieldcraft needed either.

Grouse shooting is a very exclusive bird to shoot and not really comparable to anything else (some seasons they don’t shoot any if the numbers are low), they’ve always been shot by the rich!

 

6 hours ago, kitchrat said:

I don't know about decoy shy, from the numbers you shoot they must decoy well but here in Essex they wouldn't come near your hide, except in times of extreme hunger. Even permanent bale hides don't really work. If you can see it, they won't have it, I know Peter Theobald shoots 1000's not far away from me but they are really fussy round here. An upside down bird is a massive NO-NO for example.

I must admit, I don’t think of Essex as ‘poor’ pigeon country…..why do you think the likes of Peter Theobold shoot those thousands but you don’t? They’re the same pigeons and get shot at the same. There could be multiple reasons but most likely you just don’t have access to the prime pigeon farms that he does and smaller numbers? 

Edited October 2 by Wilts#Dave

[yickdaz]

1 hour ago, Wilts#Dave said:

Grouse shooting is a very exclusive bird to shoot and not really comparable to anything else (some seasons they don’t shoot any of the numbers are low), they’ve always been shot by the rich!

 

I must admit, I don’t think of Essex as ‘poor’ pigeon country…..why do you think the likes of Peter Theobold shoot those thousands but you don’t? They’re the same pigeons and get shot at the same. There could be multiple reasons but most likely you just don’t have access to the prime pigeon farms that he does and smaller numbers? 

You beat me to it i find it hard to believe that a pigeon is different to  one on the next farm or a few miles away, they are all the same  some will decoy some won't  

[matone]

14 hours ago, kitchrat said:

I don't know about decoy shy, from the numbers you shoot they must decoy well but here in Essex they wouldn't come near your hide, except in times of extreme hunger. Even permanent bale hides don't really work. If you can see it, they won't have it, I know Peter Theobald shoots 1000's not far away from me but they are really fussy round here. An upside down bird is a massive NO-NO for example.

Same here,bird on its back = instant avoidance and has to be sorted before any more will commit.As others have said ,probably down to relatively small population of pigeons and a lot  of harassment.

[Wilts#Dave]

2 hours ago, matone said:

Same here,bird on its back = instant avoidance and has to be sorted before any more will commit.As others have said ,probably down to relatively small population of pigeons and a lot  of harassment.

On a busy day, with the exception of drilling they’ll often keep coming regardless of birds on their backs etc. As you say, with lower numbers you’ll have to work a lot harder to get the few there to commit……every day’s different though!
Small numbers and harassment/over shot fields are often the biggest factor to them being really wary. 

[matone]

Totally agree ! We`re blessed with bad neighbours who are never away from their bit.

[kitchrat]

On 02/10/2024 at 19:46, Wilts#Dave said:

Grouse shooting is a very exclusive bird to shoot and not really comparable to anything else (some seasons they don’t shoot any if the numbers are low), they’ve always been shot by the rich!

 

I must admit, I don’t think of Essex as ‘poor’ pigeon country…..why do you think the likes of Peter Theobold shoot those thousands but you don’t? They’re the same pigeons and get shot at the same. There could be multiple reasons but most likely you just don’t have access to the prime pigeon farms that he does and smaller numbers? 

Nice of you not to put all the blame on me! Peter, without doubt, is a better shot than I ever was (getting slow and stiff now) and his field craft will probably be in a different league too. However, I don't even SEE as many birds as you and he shoot and I spend most of my time looking! Cheers, JK

[Wilts#Dave]

10 hours ago, kitchrat said:

Nice of you not to put all the blame on me! Peter, without doubt, is a better shot than I ever was (getting slow and stiff now) and his field craft will probably be in a different league too. However, I don't even SEE as many birds as you and he shoot and I spend most of my time looking! Cheers, JK

I didn’t, and certainly didn’t intend it to come across that way.
You said they don’t decoy here in Essex, to which I responded that I didn’t consider it a poor area in general for pigeons as some shoot thousands there, and said the main reason would likely be what you’ve described at the end of your post, you probably don’t have access to the prime pigeon land that he does. 
I don’t shoot the numbers he and Paul Payne do either but do make the most of it when there’s plenty to go at, and at the end of the day it’s much easier when there are a lot of pigeons in an area! 
That said, there are other guys that shoot the farms I do who don’t get the results, for which there are probably multiple reasons. 
You can only shoot what’s there, so as long as you’re making the most of what’s on offer there’s not much more you can do other than venturing further afield in hope of finding ‘better’ pigeon shooting farms.
As you probably know, it’s not an easy sport to pursue and achieve consistent results, I’ve certainly never stopped improving.
Over the years my bags have gone up, largely due to the continued growth of knowledge of the ground I have access to where I know pretty much all the best spots/ fields / flightlines and where they’re likely to be and when. I also still get it wrong / get low number days! 
Primarily for me, it’s down to cropping and when particular crops are grown in certain fields I get much better shooting. 
 

[marsh man]

They say  , you only get out of something what you put into it , this is not to say that J K don't put 100% into his chosen sport , I sometimes take one of our pickers up with me and now I can more or less guarantee he will end up with more me , I know exactly why and the reason is that he put 100 percent into his decoying where I no longer do , he will often put a magnet out ( sometimes two ) along with a flapper , all his decoys are on cradles and they will be replaced with dead ones as soon as possible , his hide is often tarnished with whatever is near at hand , with me I try to cut so many corners , my decoys are often balanced on the rape or grain stubble , one or two floaters and I let my dog pick up most of what I shoot , my time limit is now only a couple of hours and if I shoot 20 then I have shot enough , had a bit of sport and my dog have enjoyed himself , I now believe in comfort and I know I am not always in the right place but if I can drive rather than walk then so be it , I can handle 20 , anymore than that I would end up filling my freezer up with no , or very little chance of emptying it , there will be a time when we all have to slow down , we also have to take the weather into account as well , I begin to feel the cold now and I no longer fancy sitting on a cold hedge in the middle of the Winter for hours on end in the hope of a few Pigeons coming into your decoys on the rape fields , and I doubt I am not the only one with the big 80 not that far away .    MM

[Wilts#Dave]

11 hours ago, marsh man said:

They say  , you only get out of something what you put into it , this is not to say that J K don't put 100% into his chosen sport , I sometimes take one of our pickers up with me and now I can more or less guarantee he will end up with more me , I know exactly why and the reason is that he put 100 percent into his decoying where I no longer do , he will often put a magnet out ( sometimes two ) along with a flapper , all his decoys are on cradles and they will be replaced with dead ones as soon as possible , his hide is often tarnished with whatever is near at hand , with me I try to cut so many corners , my decoys are often balanced on the rape or grain stubble , one or two floaters and I let my dog pick up most of what I shoot , my time limit is now only a couple of hours and if I shoot 20 then I have shot enough , had a bit of sport and my dog have enjoyed himself , I now believe in comfort and I know I am not always in the right place but if I can drive rather than walk then so be it , I can handle 20 , anymore than that I would end up filling my freezer up with no , or very little chance of emptying it , there will be a time when we all have to slow down , we also have to take the weather into account as well , I begin to feel the cold now and I no longer fancy sitting on a cold hedge in the middle of the Winter for hours on end in the hope of a few Pigeons coming into your decoys on the rape fields , and I doubt I am not the only one with the big 80 not that far away .    MM

Agreed, one of the reasons some of the other chaps who have permission to shoot the ground I do don’t shoot the bags is as you describe they just put a few decoys out and stand in the hedge or behind a bit of net for a few hours. 
Which is absolutely fine and what they enjoy doing! 
As you know my Dad is around your age, and he certainly wouldn’t walk half a mile with the kit and carry back 150 pigeons on his own (where like you he would have done 20/30 years ago). He seldom goes out on his own now, but is always with me when I go and enjoys the day as much as the shooting now (and still enjoys driving round scouting for me).