Following on from the Budget, why shouldn't Farmers pay inheritance tax like the rest of us?

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

From the daily Express;

"Labour is facing fury for "destroying" British farms with its cruel tax raid while sending hundreds of millions of pounds to support foreign farmers.

An investigation found the UK's aid budget is handing huge sums of money to farmers in Africa, Asia, and South America.

More than £536 million is being spent overseas on ten programmes including grants to promote low-carbon agriculture practices in Brazil, the world's 11th richest country.

Another scheme, worth more than £16 million, aims to produce tea in Rwanda for the first time."

What were we saying about subsidising foreign countries to supply us with cheap food? 
I hate to be the one who said ‘ I told you so’, but I did. 
I don’t mean you personally,  of course. 👍

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

What were we saying about subsidising foreign countries to supply us with cheap food? 
I hate to be the one who said ‘ I told you so’, but I did. 
I don’t mean you personally,  of course. 👍

Of course.  

It is a crazy world where we are led down this path.

Our "Leaders" are not worth having and I don't see a way of changing what is already in place

[JohnfromUK]

14 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Our "Leaders" are not worth having and I don't see a way of changing what is already in place

I suspect that this is a mix of 'current' and 'legacy'.

The 'aid' programmes overseas will be longer term and likely planned and promised by the previous administration who were not known to be planning additional taxation to UK farmers.  It will have been handled by the Dept for Overseas aid - which has it's own budget, managed in effect by it's Civil Servants whose 'directional policy' is set by the Minister (in theory).  There has been long history of subsidising food growing overseas - one famous example being the Groundnut scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanganyika_groundnut_scheme which was a notorious and expensive failure.  Despite it being legacy they will have found a reason why it must go on as no doubt there are many palms being greased along the way.

The new (current) tax on farmers estates is pure Labour and will have come from the Treasury on direction from the farmer and wealth hating Labour ministers.  The International Aid people won't have known of it (and won't care either).  These Departments work in their own sealed boxes and from their own independent budgets.

Gov't departments doing 'contradictory' things is standard practice through history, just as we still give British Aid from taxpayers aid to countries who have huge economies and space programmes, and also give aid freely to countries with massive Gov't corruption that lines the pockets of the likes of Comrade Mugabe and never makes it to the Rhodesian/Zimbabwean population.

The 'aid' is certainly an issue ....... but for me the 'raid' on farmer estates is a much bigger issue and driven from envy, jealousy and spite rather than sensible and sound economics - something were are seeing that Labour does not do.

I keep coming back to the old - but VERY true saying; if you are getting short of money, don't go out and steal, spend less

[7daysinaweek]

2 hours ago, Penelope said:

No, that is being foistered upon us.

👍

[ditchman]

Dont ask for a link.....have read somewhere that Starmer is getting ready to do a climbdown on the farmer thing ....

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, ditchman said:

Dont ask for a link.....have read somewhere that Starmer is getting ready to do a climbdown on the farmer thing ....

Oh, really, so TWO TIER may well become TWO FACED?

[ditchman]

19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Oh, really, so TWO TIER may well become TWO FACED?

im surprised MSM hasnt got onto it.....they are talking about "tweeking" it...

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Tweeking is VASTLY different from a CLIMB DOWN though..........................

 

Watching with great interest, a "U" Turn would be the start of their downfall.

[shaun4860]

2 hours ago, ditchman said:

im surprised MSM hasnt got onto it.....they are talking about "tweeking" it...

I had a vision of Starmer twerking then 🫣

[ditchman]

20 minutes ago, shaun4860 said:

I had a vision of Starmer twerking then 🫣

Twerking is a liberal thing...

[Weihrauch17]

31 minutes ago, ditchman said:

Twerking is a liberal thing...

With his boyfriend Lord Ali whilst taxing Pensions at 90 % whilst having his own protected by an act of Parliament.  The whole lot need stringing up after being flogged.

[old man]

On 22/11/2024 at 08:55, Scully said:

What were we saying about subsidising foreign countries to supply us with cheap food? 
I hate to be the one who said ‘ I told you so’, but I did. 
I don’t mean you personally,  of course. 👍

Let's face it, a supply of cheap food enables a land grab that could be communally farmed or sold off for house building to house voters and enable local authorities to cream a bit more off?

What's not to like when you want all of yours and most of everyone else's?

[Penelope]

On 22/11/2024 at 20:07, ditchman said:

Dont ask for a link.....have read somewhere that Starmer is getting ready to do a climbdown on the farmer thing ....

I heard it was only for farms where the farmer was 80 or over?

[ditchman]

all gone very quiet on the farming front........govt hasnt paid a blind bit of notice

they have won ...the farmers have lost

[oowee]

15 minutes ago, ditchman said:

all gone very quiet on the farming front........govt hasnt paid a blind bit of notice

they have won ...the farmers have lost

No. probably spoken to their accountant. 

[welsh1]

8 minutes ago, ditchman said:

all gone very quiet on the farming front........govt hasnt paid a blind bit of notice

they have won ...the farmers have lost

One march doesn't mean the battle is lost, if farmers start withholding food for a week at a time more pressure will pile up on the government.

The Welsh govenment insisted farmers had to set land aside for trees or wildlife if they wanted subsidies, but they have meekly withdrawn that today because they relised that a huge part of wales is rural and most stand behind farmers the public backlash would weeken an already shaken welsh labour.

While the london bubble thinks that milk comes from a supermarket and carrots grow in plastic bags they will soon realise that it's farmers supplying the food chain, and those farmers have been squeezed by the supermarkets until they nearly bleed, and now the government want to hurt them more. There is a limit, let's hope the government realise they have reached it.

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, welsh1 said:

One march doesn't mean the battle is lost, if farmers start withholding food for a week at a time more pressure will pile up on the government.

The Welsh govenment insisted farmers had to set land aside for trees or wildlife if they wanted subsidies, but they have meekly withdrawn that today because they relised that a huge part of wales is rural and most stand behind farmers the public backlash would weeken an already shaken welsh labour.

While the london bubble thinks that milk comes from a supermarket and carrots grow in plastic bags they will soon realise that it's farmers supplying the food chain, and those farmers have been squeezed by the supermarkets until they nearly bleed, and now the government want to hurt them more. There is a limit, let's hope the government realise they have reached it.

if the farmers stop the food delivery ..it will bring the nation to its knees in 3 days

one of 2 things will happen

1. the farmers will win and get what they want
2. the farmers will be beaten to death by the country and they will loose everything

 

who going to blink first ?

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, I just watched a TV report of 2 young farmers in  Dorset, Puddletown Young Farmers , Sad to hear they may not be able to carry on Farming, Shame on the Labour Party, Despite what Rachel Reeves stated, It will only affect a small number of Farms, I reckon it will affect 1000s of Family Farms, 

[Yellow Bear]

We all know that it is just another Hate tax.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

I reckon it will affect 1000s of Family Farms

You are right.

There are various things of which Rachel Reeves seems blissfully unaware.

The £3 million Reeves and Starmer keep quoting is a total.  It includes deadstock (vehicles, tractors, machinery etc.) and livestock, working stock (grain, seed, animal feed, fertiliser etc.), buildings, farmhouse (and any tied cottages), and any savings or pensions that the deceased may have held.

The proposal to 'give away under the 7 year rule' is very risky; it is considered an asset disposal which means Capital Gains Tax (CGT) is payable at the time of the giving.  On a recently acquired farm, that may not be much, but on one held for a long time (since the last transfer) - it might be a LOT of money.

Stamp Duty may also be payable if there is any mortgage outstanding.

IF the gift is made and the CGT paid - but the giveing party doesn't live the full 7 years - potentially both Inheritance Tax (IHT) and CGT might be payable.  Having paid one does not automatically cancel the other if the 7 years have not passed.

There are also various 'trust' schemes, but as I understand it CGT can also apply, and the person who puts assets into trust cannot receive any benefit from the assets (e.g. could not live in the farmhouse or receive any return from the farm.

It is all MUCH more complex than Reeves and Starmer admit.