Hollow Points

[Mice!]

To start off I put a mag of Polymag shorts through the Rapid at about 20mtrs, wobbling around but I wanted to see how they shot, they only just go in the mag, despite being designed for rotary mags they say, tin says 8.7mm length, the tin lid also says ' incomparable penetration and EXPANSION '
Well they loaded fine and shot OK, sure they'd do better rested and a few mags through but did they expand..............

Not really, I used the method of shooting a 2ltr milk carton, I shot two at 10mtrs ish and one at the 20mtrs ish

Today I shot Barracuda Extreme which don't load well in my rifle, no real expansion but one went through the plastic, extra weight?

Bisley Pest control, some definite expansion but not a lot, again they ripped the carton, heavy.

Hades, loaded and shot nice, nothing really

Super Hollow Point, same results as Steve, the hollow flattened out.

Crossman Hollow point, nothing really

And because they are lighter some RS, which again did very little

And because I can, a picture of the rifle I tested with....

Certainly not a definite test, not hitting bone, but it was possible to retrieve the pellets.

 

 

[Spr1985]

Hi @Mice! I’ve not heard of the milk carton method and I’m by no means questioning your method or knowledge as mine is extremely limited. But, is it not hard surface’s/objects that cause the deformation to occur? I don't understand how a milk carton would give any valuable insight as to how a hollow point (or variants of) deforms on impact.  I’ll look forward to learning something new 👍🏻

[old man]

To be honest I've never run definitive expansion tests but have never seen any make live up to the advertising blurb.

[clangerman]

40 minutes ago, old man said:

To be honest I've never run definitive expansion tests but have never seen any make live up to the advertising blurb.

your right there I’m yet to see any which expand as claimed think the real game changer will be slugs if anyone can bring one out that actually works well in sub12 

[Mice!]

41 minutes ago, Spr1985 said:

Hi @Mice! I’ve not heard of the milk carton method and I’m by no means questioning your method or knowledge as mine is extremely limited. But, is it not hard surface’s/objects that cause the deformation to occur? I don't understand how a milk carton would give any valuable insight as to how a hollow point (or variants of) deforms on impact.  I’ll look forward to learning something new 👍🏻

The water gives resistance without a hard surface and you can get the pellets out, using ballistic gel would be a lot better but it's not something I have.

43 minutes ago, old man said:

To be honest I've never run definitive expansion tests but have never seen any make live up to the advertising blurb.

That's the first time I'd done it, I know @Ultrastu did it with bacon or a ham joint?

[old man]

Just now, Mice! said:

The water gives resistance without a hard surface and you can get the pellets out, using ballistic gel would be a lot better but it's not something I have.

That's the first time I'd done it, I know @Ultrastu did it with bacon or a ham joint?

Just so wrong bud, that stuff is for big sarnies?

[Mice!]

1 minute ago, clangerman said:

your right there I’m yet to see any which expand as claimed think the real game changer will be slugs if anyone can bring one out that actually works well in sub12 

I've got some Zans to try,  10g which people have been getting good results with but I've not tried them yet.

I don't expect much expansion from any pellet in sub 12 really but folk definitely like Hades in .22

[scarecrow243]

most need more than 12ft1lbs to expand

[stumfelter]

As above, I don't think sub 12 h/p's will expand much if any.

[sam triple]

Lancs vermin control on you tube did a recent test on pellets thru a fac air rifle may be worth a look 

[Mice!]

8 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

most need more than 12ft1lbs to expand

Definitely 👍 

[bruno22rf]

Stop messing around with Air Rifles and get that trellis put back up - Merry Christmas Mice 😁.

[Mice!]

14 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Stop messing around with Air Rifles and get that trellis put back up - Merry Christmas Mice 😁.

🤣🤣🤣 that's been there for two years mate, got the roof redone in summer and finally got the electric put in last week. 

Have a good Xmas mate.

But what pellet are you using in the FAC air rifle?

[bruno22rf]

2 hours ago, Mice! said:

🤣🤣🤣 that's been there for two years mate, got the roof redone in summer and finally got the electric put in last week. 

Have a good Xmas mate.

But what pellet are you using in the FAC air rifle?

I use Jumbo Exact heavies but Dead Centre heavy I've recently tried are also spot on in the S510.

[Ultrastu]

Hi mice .yes I like to use a pack of bacon as it is cheap and in layers so you can count the depth easily and retrieve the pellet and reuse the bacon .it's going to be as close to real quarry as I can imagine . I have shot it with all sorts of pellets 12 fpe .22 and .177 fac 

And I've found no decent expansion from any at any speed .

I even tried 177 slugs .  At around 900 fps and they still don't expand much even close in .

I shot a pigeon and then proceeded to hit it with  fac .177 slugs hitting different parts of the body   all passed through non expanded .

That was the end of me playing with slugs . 

I've found the best smak you can put on quarry comes from a flat head either  .177 or .22 your hitting it with the full width of the pellet  and not asking  for any expansion you already have 4.5 /5.5 mm flying fast and accurate   .

I dropped 4 rats the other week with a .177 doing 9 fpe from my springer at 15 yds  perfect head shots .these rats didn't flip or jump or even wiggle a tail they dropped where they stood  stone dead .

I recommend the best results  you can get will come from a fast .177 flat head every time  

[TIGHTCHOKE]

What sort of bacon?

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

That was the end of me playing with slugs . 

I've seen some big claims with slugs, saying they won't go through being the biggest one, these pictures aren't mine, just off the thread I replied to. Same method shooting 2 litre milk bottles at 10mtrs 

A lot of change to the .22 slugs, shot at sub 12.

I was initially just testing the Polymags as someone had asked about them, I've seen people say they're brilliant, personally I'll stick with a normal pellet. 

[Ultrastu]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

What sort of bacon?

Streaky  - the cheapest .

[Accuspell]

I will see if I can retrieve the pellet tests I did using plasticine, and ballistic gelatine.  It isn't JUST the expansion that does the damage, it is the hydrostatic shock that spreads throught the medium, shaped like a spear head.  I cut the plasticine open and the shape of the shock wave is captured by the cavity that is created. The actual path of the pellet is not much bigger - so the bacon tests will only show the pellet path, not the shock wave. I have a feeling the pictures are on my other computer though, and Jet chewed the power lead, so I can't even get the stuff the hard drive. Hopefully I saved it onto the seperate hard drive.

[Flyboy1950]

Bit late on reading this topic and my 60 plus years of using airguns,  (like the others before me) l haven't found any thing that deforms as advertised in a sub 12ft/lbs rifle. As Ultrastu has said a fast moving 177 flat head does the biz.

I have heard over the years (though l haven't tried it my self) is to cast a brick of the old fashioned hand soap and shoot into that. You can heat the blocks in an old saucepan and reuse it over and over. It will give a much better shock to the pellet than the milk cartons although not quite so easy to extract, but it should show a shock channel. Just a thought.

FB

[Ultrastu]

5 hours ago, Accuspell said:

I will see if I can retrieve the pellet tests I did using plasticine, and ballistic gelatine.  It isn't JUST the expansion that does the damage, it is the hydrostatic shock that spreads throught the medium, shaped like a spear head.  I cut the plasticine open and the shape of the shock wave is captured by the cavity that is created. The actual path of the pellet is not much bigger - so the bacon tests will only show the pellet path, not the shock wave. I have a feeling the pictures are on my other computer though, and Jet chewed the power lead, so I can't even get the stuff the hard drive. Hopefully I saved it onto the seperate hard drive.

Absolutely  the bacon test will only show realistic  penetration depth and any pellet deformation  .but not indicate the shock wave /trauma  radius.  The issue with clay is that its not really the same as flesh .and could give a false  impression of the  the shock wave .

I guess if a pellet penetrated the same distance and deformed the same in clay and bacon /,flesh then we could deduce that the captured clay cavity is representative of the shock wave ? 

Humm something to have a go at in summer .I'd suggest we would need a base bacon test first with 3 different pellets .then try and replicate depth and expansion  into clay  with different temperatures  and consistency .

The idea (to my mind at least ) of a winder shock wave and trauma radius is to give you the best chance of a clean kill with a shot placement that isn't perfectly on a vital organ (heart /brain ).

Even the poorest expanding, low energy, shallow penetration , pellet  will kill if placed just right on the vital organ .it's those shots that go a bit adrift we are trying to make count .

Cheers 

[Mice!]

4 hours ago, Flyboy1950 said:

have heard over the years (though l haven't tried it my self) is to cast a brick of the old fashioned hand soap and shoot into that. You can heat the blocks in an old saucepan and reuse it over and over. It will give a much better shock to the pellet than the milk cartons although not quite so easy to extract, but it should show a shock channel. Just a thought

Sounds like a good idea, but most folk always have milk cartons waiting for recycling, I know they aren't the best medium to shoot into, but like you say the pellets were easy to retrieve. 

9 hours ago, Accuspell said:

isn't JUST the expansion that does the damage, it is the hydrostatic shock that spreads throught the medium, shaped like a spear head.

I've seen posts from others shooting into ballistic gel and the results always look great showing how different pellets act, some going deep, others slowing faster and you can normally see the shock wave.

3 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

The idea (to my mind at least ) of a winder shock wave and trauma radius is to give you the best chance of a clean kill with a shot placement that isn't perfectly on a vital organ (heart /brain ).

Even the poorest expanding, low energy, shallow penetration , pellet  will kill if placed just right on the vital organ .it's those shots that go a bit adrift we are trying to make count .

Definitely mate, the other issue for me is trying to minimise the chance of a pellet zipping through 👍

Glad the post has got some interest and ideas floating around. 😁