The Steel Shot Shotgun

[Old farrier]

2 hours ago, Penelope said:

Nice bit of wood on the magnum, OF.

Thank you 😊 

i like nice wood on my guns 

[Penelope]

15 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Thank you 😊 

i like nice wood on my guns 

Likewise. Makes a gun IMO.

[bunny_blaster]

I’ve been using steel exclusively for pigeons for the last 8/9 years. Cartridges ranging from 21gr-32gr and shot sizes 3-9’s. I use on average 15-20,000 cartridges a year, I’m yet to see any damage in my barrels. My latest pigeon gun being an old Miroku 800 trap gun choked at full and full, rough as a dogs ****, I’m about 3000 steel cartridges in with it and as of yet no adverse effects

[Old farrier]

33 minutes ago, bunny_blaster said:

I’ve been using steel exclusively for pigeons for the last 8/9 years. Cartridges ranging from 21gr-32gr and shot sizes 3-9’s. I use on average 15-20,000 cartridges a year, I’m yet to see any damage in my barrels. My latest pigeon gun being an old Miroku 800 trap gun choked at full and full, rough as a dogs ****, I’m about 3000 steel cartridges in with it and as of yet no adverse effects

Could you be kind enough to tell us what your main cartridge is please 

als have you tried any of the bio wad / degradable products 

many thanks 

of 

[Scully]

46 minutes ago, bunny_blaster said:

I’ve been using steel exclusively for pigeons for the last 8/9 years. Cartridges ranging from 21gr-32gr and shot sizes 3-9’s. I use on average 15-20,000 cartridges a year, I’m yet to see any damage in my barrels. My latest pigeon gun being an old Miroku 800 trap gun choked at full and full, rough as a dogs ****, I’m about 3000 steel cartridges in with it and as of yet no adverse effects

Brilliant! That’s just what folk need to hear.
I’ve used a lot of steel ( nowhere near as many as you ) in old guns, and folk I talk to simply just don’t seem to believe me when I tell them it is perfectly safe and ok to use in their old Winchesters, Brownings, Mirokus and Berettas. 
One of the many annoying aspects revolving around the steel shot farce,  is the way some in the trade have capitalised on the scaremongering regarding HP steel shot proofing and devalued old none steel proofed guns. 

[old'un]

41 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Could you be kind enough to tell us what your main cartridge is please 

als have you tried any of the bio wad / degradable products 

many thanks 

of 

if I am correct, on one of his posts he mentions using 28g 7.5s steel (iron) pigeon shooting.

Not sure if they were bio wad?

[bunny_blaster]

55 minutes ago, Scully said:

Brilliant! That’s just what folk need to hear.
I’ve used a lot of steel ( nowhere near as many as you ) in old guns, and folk I talk to simply just don’t seem to believe me when I tell them it is perfectly safe and ok to use in their old Winchesters, Brownings, Mirokus and Berettas. 
One of the many annoying aspects revolving around the steel shot farce,  is the way some in the trade have capitalised on the scaremongering regarding HP steel shot proofing and devalued old none steel proofed guns. 

I don’t own a gun that is HP steel proofed. My 2 main guns are my Beretta 391 and my DT10 along with this trap gun I’ve started using

[Scully]

1 minute ago, bunny_blaster said:

I don’t own a gun that is HP steel proofed. My 2 main guns are my Beretta 391 and my DT10 along with this trap gun I’ve started using

I don’t either, and nothing newer than the 1980’s. 

[bunny_blaster]

1 hour ago, Old farrier said:

Could you be kind enough to tell us what your main cartridge is please 

als have you tried any of the bio wad / degradable products 

many thanks 

of 

My main cartridge use to be a 24gr 6 from RC but I can no longer get hold of them. I started off years ago using 32gr 3/4/5’s but I soon realised you don’t need these big punchy loads to kill pigeon’s. My go to cartridge now is the Lylvale 28gr 5s or Fiocchi 28gr 7s

As for Bio wad cartridges, I used to shoot the Jocker 21gr 7s with the paper wad. These were mustard over the decoys but again they stopped making them. I’m lucky that 99% of the farmers I shoot for couldnt care less about plastic wads as long as I’m killing pigeons. I do pick them up as when I see them whilst picking up though. For the few that don’t like it I use the Bioammo 24/28gr 7s. These are very good although quite punchy for a 28gr load.

I’ll also mention that you don’t need big shot sizes when using steel. The amount of things I read from “experts” claiming you need to go up a shot size or two when using steel is a load of ****. Pattern is what kills and there’s a lot more shot in a steel load than there is in the equivalent lead load. I understand going bigger if shooting tall ducks or geese but for pigeons there really is no need. 
 

 

[Fil]

On 07/01/2025 at 19:24, bunny_blaster said:

. For the few that don’t like it I use the Bioammo 24/28gr 7s. These are very good although quite punchy for a 28gr load.

Pattern is what kills  
 

 

I haven't tried it yet but I feared it would be punchy. Good to know. I shoot Edwardian light weight game guns.

Spot on mate.

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 07/01/2025 at 19:24, bunny_blaster said:

My main cartridge use to be a 24gr 6 from RC but I can no longer get hold of them. I started off years ago using 32gr 3/4/5’s but I soon realised you don’t need these big punchy loads to kill pigeon’s. My go to cartridge now is the Lylvale 28gr 5s or Fiocchi 28gr 7s

As for Bio wad cartridges, I used to shoot the Jocker 21gr 7s with the paper wad. These were mustard over the decoys but again they stopped making them. I’m lucky that 99% of the farmers I shoot for couldnt care less about plastic wads as long as I’m killing pigeons. I do pick them up as when I see them whilst picking up though. For the few that don’t like it I use the Bioammo 24/28gr 7s. These are very good although quite punchy for a 28gr load.

I’ll also mention that you don’t need big shot sizes when using steel. The amount of things I read from “experts” claiming you need to go up a shot size or two when using steel is a load of ****. Pattern is what kills and there’s a lot more shot in a steel load than there is in the equivalent lead load. I understand going bigger if shooting tall ducks or geese but for pigeons there really is no need. 
 

 

Hello, Good post BB thanks for sharing, 👍

[Poor Shot]

On 07/01/2025 at 19:24, bunny_blaster said:

The amount of things I read from “experts” claiming you need to go up a shot size or two when using steel is a load of ****. Pattern is what kills and there’s a lot more shot in a steel load than there is in the equivalent lead load. I understand going bigger if shooting tall ducks or geese but for pigeons there really is no need. 

Agreed. 

Steel is approx 1/3 lighter than lead so you get around 1/3 more shot per shot charge weight. Add that to the fact that steel shot does not deform as much as lead when fired leading to a naturally tighter patterns then steel cartridges actually do quite well. 

Problems start to arise at distance where the steel pellet would have lost a lot more of its energy to air resistance. That's where a step up in pellet size starts to matter. 

I have used the 29g steel 5's from Empire Cartridges before now and these are perfect for close range stuff, birds over decoys etc. I only stopped using them because of the plastic wad.  

[old'un]

Unless there is a reason to use steel I think I will continue to use lead until its banned.

 

[mossy835]

3 hours ago, old'un said:

Unless there is a reason to use steel I think I will continue to use lead until its banned.

 

 

 

this

[Scully]

6 hours ago, old'un said:

Unless there is a reason to use steel I think I will continue to use lead until its banned.

 

I doubt you’ll be alone. 

[bunny_blaster]

On 10/01/2025 at 10:07, Poor Shot said:

Agreed. 

Steel is approx 1/3 lighter than lead so you get around 1/3 more shot per shot charge weight. Add that to the fact that steel shot does not deform as much as lead when fired leading to a naturally tighter patterns then steel cartridges actually do quite well. 

Problems start to arise at distance where the steel pellet would have lost a lot more of its energy to air resistance. That's where a step up in pellet size starts to matter. 

I have used the 29g steel 5's from Empire Cartridges before now and these are perfect for close range stuff, birds over decoys etc. I only stopped using them because of the plastic wad.  

What do you call distance though? Ive not noticed much in killing performance between lead and steel out to 45-50 yards

[Rock_n_Roll_Outlaw]

On 07/01/2025 at 16:53, bunny_blaster said:

I’ve been using steel exclusively for pigeons for the last 8/9 years. Cartridges ranging from 21gr-32gr and shot sizes 3-9’s. I use on average 15-20,000 cartridges a year, I’m yet to see any damage in my barrels. My latest pigeon gun being an old Miroku 800 trap gun choked at full and full, rough as a dogs ****, I’m about 3000 steel cartridges in with it and as of yet no adverse effects

How did the AYA Matador hold up, did you ever get the double discharge fixed? 

[bunny_blaster]

41 minutes ago, Rock_n_Roll_Outlaw said:

How did the AYA Matador hold up, did you ever get the double discharge fixed? 

I’ve never had it happen to me. Used it a few times on the pigeons and also some game days and it’s never missed a beat

[Rock_n_Roll_Outlaw]

2 hours ago, bunny_blaster said:

I’ve never had it happen to me. Used it a few times on the pigeons and also some game days and it’s never missed a beat

Glad to know it's getting some use. 

[Salmo9]

OK everyone.. from what I gather the OP has volunteered to use his Lanber with factory steel loads.. well done sir..

However, has anyone used/contemplated using a standard shotgun with steel minus any protective wad ie plane fibre/cork typically used with standard lead game loads.?

I recall a conversation with a staff member of one of our reloading suppliers who scoffed at this suggestion saying the barrels would be destroyed.. me thinks he has ulterior motives..

Obviously this cartridge would be home brew/reloaded as I’m sure our manufacturers would no doubt, shudder at the very thought..

I personally see a future for me of more simulated game days however the emphasis is fibre only and I understand that.. Also, would ‘graphite powdered’ steel (iron) shot be more sympathetic to our shotguns..?

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, Salmo9 said:

OK everyone.. from what I gather the OP has volunteered to use his Lanber with factory steel loads.. well done sir..

However, has anyone used/contemplated using a standard shotgun with steel minus any protective wad ie plane fibre/cork typically used with standard lead game loads.?

I recall a conversation with a staff member of one of our reloading suppliers who scoffed at this suggestion saying the barrels would be destroyed.. me thinks he has ulterior motives..

Obviously this cartridge would be home brew/reloaded as I’m sure our manufacturers would no doubt, shudder at the very thought..

I personally see a future for me of more simulated game days however the emphasis is fibre only and I understand that.. Also, would ‘graphite powdered’ steel (iron) shot be more sympathetic to our shotguns..?

Not having a pop, but I’m not sure why anyone would try it really, nor what the ‘ulterior motives’ of the staff member would be. 
As you’ve said yourself it’s a ‘protective’ wad. 

[Dave at kelton]

On 01/01/2025 at 22:05, Feltwad said:

Steel shot will mark the end of an  era  for  the Damascus barrel muzzle loaders and early hammer guns and a important part of a gun heritage.

Feltwad

Sorry but I disagree having shot bismuth in my Charles Lancaster on duck for a couple of years. There are perfectly suitable alternatives to keep these guns going. I don’t see an end to my driven ML days!

[sishyplops]

A chap on this forum is/was selling a 1985/6 beretta 686 that he had sent off to be proofed (via teague I think) it passed HP steel proofing and has had the Fleur Di Lys stamp on it , proof to us using older guns that most are suitable for using steel , I’ve got 2 x beretta 682 Gold ‘s (not E) that are 3” chamber and I would have no qualms about putting steel through it , it’s the newest gun I own at 1996 

[Salmo9]

59 minutes ago, Scully said:

Not having a pop, but I’m not sure why anyone would try it really, nor what the ‘ulterior motives’ of the staff member would be. 
As you’ve said yourself it’s a ‘protective’ wad. 

That’s my issue.. perhaps testing of steel loads with regular lead fibre wads would confirm either heavy scoring and therefore accelerated wear or nothing discernible, especially if the steel shot is perhaps lubricated ie graphite powder..

as for ulterior motives, have you seen the price of 12B fibre shot cups..

The practical exercise suggested here might be one for Jonny at TGS…

[Scully]

5 minutes ago, Salmo9 said:

That’s my issue.. perhaps testing of steel loads with regular lead fibre wads would confirm either heavy scoring and therefore accelerated wear or nothing discernible, especially if the steel shot is perhaps lubricated ie graphite powder..

as for ulterior motives, have you seen the price of 12B fibre shot cups..

The practical exercise suggested here might be one for Jonny at TGS…

I thought scoring of barrels via steel shot contacting the barrels had already been established?