Advice for best approach for new shooter 12vs20

[LondonLuke]

Hi all

After some thoughts on something I cant work out.

I would quite like to get my wife into clay pigeon shooting (may end up regretting this...) but I can't figure out the best way to have the best first experience.

I know she would prefer it to be casual start under my guidance (god help her) but which is better

Take standard 12 gauge, going to kick a bit and probably not fit well, but gives a fair chance of hitting something
OR
Get my hands on a 20 bore which is probably more comfortable but my understanding is that it will be a smaller pattern so less easy to hit a clay.

I've never shot 20 bore so I can't really work out what the best idea - no good your first go ending up with cheek slap and a sore shoulder and no good hitting nothing either!

[London Best]

Your understanding is wrong. The 20 will not throw a smaller diameter pattern.

[LondonLuke]

Oh brilliant - that seems the way to go.

Glad I asked as I just assumed smaller cartridge would mean less lead less pattern less chance

[sam triple]

What ever you choose put alight load in it no good having a light gun and a heavy load that kicks like a mule , 12 bore 24 grm , 20bore 21 grm 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, As above , A nice 20 O/U multi choke, Single trigger with the right LOP Stock, Measurement from front of Trigger to Stock Butt, Could be Junior size or Standard 14/ 14 1/4 / 14 1/2 inch, Start on 21 g Cartridges, Where are you thinking to go Clay Pigeon Shooting ?? And what Gun shop do you go to ??

Edited Friday at 17:02 by oldypigeonpopper

[LondonLuke]

Thanks guys - good point on load - 21 gram it is.

Seems a good excuse to add a 20 bore to the collection...too! Will have to get her to shoulder a few and see whats comfortable although always difficult with a new person as everything feels quite alien I find.

We are in West Sussex so have a few decent places around - though not sure if this is nationwide they don't ever seem to be open Monday or Tuesday

[oldypigeonpopper]

3 minutes ago, LondonLuke said:

Thanks guys - good point on load - 21 gram it is.

Seems a good excuse to add a 20 bore to the collection...too! Will have to get her to shoulder a few and see whats comfortable although always difficult with a new person as everything feels quite alien I find.

We are in West Sussex so have a few decent places around - though not sure if this is nationwide they don't ever seem to be open Monday or Tuesday

Hello, Where in West Sussex, ??

[enfieldspares]

Now this IMHO is a very very valid excuse to take yourself and said lady to the Shooting Show this weekend and handle what is on offer in "Ladies Models". Which may have more toe out to accommodate that women have bosoms. Going forward on some clays that may require a larger shot size to break then 21 grams of English #6 1/2 or English #7 is not a lot of pellets. 24 grams in a 12 bore will have better performance and with like velocity less recoil than 21 grams in a 20 bore. There's a ten year old lad at my local clay ground who shoots very well. He's now at that 24 gram 12 bore place.

Edited Friday at 17:15 by enfieldspares

[sam triple]

You got Chichester Armoury, and Crows Hall clay ground just outside of Chichester they’ll start opening on a weds eve thru the summer their first Saturday shoot is tomorrow 

[Ultrastu]

Maybe consider a semi auto .they are usually much softer on the shoulder than an ou . You will probably  need to use a 24 grm load in 20 b and a 28 in 12 to get the gun to cycle well  but they will still recoil less than a 20 b with a 21 grm load and 12 b with 24 grm .

More lead in the air .too .

Just make sure to only load 2 carts though .and slip the gun .

[LondonLuke]

1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, Where in West Sussex, ??

We are halfway between Horsham and Worthing

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

Now this IMHO is a very very valid excuse to take yourself and said lady to the Shooting Show this weekend and handle what is on offer in "Ladies Models". Which may have more toe out to accommodate that women have bosoms. Going forward on some clays that may require a larger shot size to break then 21 grams of English #6 1/2 or English #7 is not a lot of pellets. 24 grams in a 12 bore will have better performance and with like velocity less recoil than 21 grams in a 20 bore. There's a ten year old lad at my local clay ground who shoots very well. He's now at that 24 gram 12 bore place.

Oh dear - just as I thought my mind was made up another thing to consider. Maybe we start on 12 and see how it goes with some 24g loads

1 hour ago, sam triple said:

You got Chichester Armoury, and Crows Hall clay ground just outside of Chichester they’ll start opening on a weds eve thru the summer their first Saturday shoot is tomorrow 

Thanks - is this quite formal or is it more that you go around stands on your own or more of a hay bailer. I’m still useless but I know when I started what I really wanted was to not feel watched and keen to find somewhere where that could work

43 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Maybe consider a semi auto .they are usually much softer on the shoulder than an ou . You will probably  need to use a 24 grm load in 20 b and a 28 in 12 to get the gun to cycle well  but they will still recoil less than a 20 b with a 21 grm load and 12 b with 24 grm .

More lead in the air .too .

Just make sure to only load 2 carts though .and slip the gun .

Yeah I had a semi a while back and it was like PCP compared to springer air rifle - good option but I don’t know if adds a level of confusion but def going to consider

[oldypigeonpopper]

Just now, LondonLuke said:

We are halfway between Horsham and Worthing

Hello, Ok, I lived in the Chichester area, As said a nice O/U 20 bore should be ideal, 

[enfieldspares]

18 minutes ago, LondonLuke said:

 

Oh dear - just as I thought my mind was made up another thing to consider. Maybe we start on 12 and see how it goes with some 24g loads

 

I hope it helps. Men and women in terms of gunstock fit will have these subtle differences. The Beretta Vittoria seemingly addresses the matter. MInd there's some blokes with "moobs" that might benefit...or not? But yes, having had four guns stocked and fitted the "toe out" is important and some stockers will, with your permission, give you a quick feel to check for "toe out".

 

Edited Friday at 19:03 by enfieldspares

[Scully]

Nothing confusing about an auto, and as it happens this one would accommodate all disciplines. One of the best out there and a bargain to boot! 
 

 

[sam triple]

40 minutes ago, LondonLuke said:

We are halfway between Horsham and Worthing

Oh dear - just as I thought my mind was made up another thing to consider. Maybe we start on 12 and see how it goes with some 24g loads

Thanks - is this quite formal or is it more that you go around stands on your own or more of a hay bailer. I’m still useless but I know when I started what I really wanted was to not feel watched and keen to find somewhere where that could work

Yeah I had a semi a while back and it was like PCP compared to springer air rifle - good option but I don’t know if adds a level of confusion but def going to consider

Crows Hall you turn up pay your money and just go round and shoot the stands , don’t stand to attention , it’s set in a bit of a valley some testing birds but worth ago 

[mpmilo]

Give Southdown Gun Club a call or pop in and see what 12s / 20 s they have, Chris or Simon in the shop will go through them with you. If its secondhand you can shoot it to get  a better feel. The layouts in the car park has mostly corparate  targets. They are at Findon on the A24.

1 hour ago, LondonLuke said:

We are halfway between Horsham and Worthing

 

Edited Friday at 20:23 by mpmilo

[Westley]

1 hour ago, LondonLuke said:

We are halfway between Horsham and Worthing

Oh dear - just as I thought my mind was made up another thing to consider. Maybe we start on 12 and see how it goes with some 24g loads

Thanks - is this quite formal or is it more that you go around stands on your own or more of a hay bailer. I’m still useless but I know when I started what I really wanted was to not feel watched and keen to find somewhere where that could work

Yeah I had a semi a while back and it was like PCP compared to springer air rifle - good option but I don’t know if adds a level of confusion but def going to consider

Take a look at some of the 28" barrel game guns available. A shooting pal has just bought a ATA game gun that weighs under 7lbs. in 12 bore. Coupled with 21 or 24 gram cartridges it would make a good starter gun for a lady. I also know of 2 ladies that both use Winchester 101 lightweight game guns. Neither paid more than £500 for them. I would stick with a 12 bore as there is a bigger range of cartridges available. I also have a Beretta 303 12 bore, that is fractionally over 7lbs. in weight. Try and go to a shop that has a shooting ground,  or at least somewhere where you can try the guns. Any stock can be altered to fit, with the possible exception of the 'plastic' variety. 

[LondonLuke]

30 minutes ago, mpmilo said:

Give Southdown Gun Club a call or pop in and see what 12s / 20 s they have, Chris or Simon in the shop will go through them with you. If its secondhand you can shoot it to get  a better feel. The layouts in the car park has mostly corparate  targets. They are at Findon on the A24.

 

Yes this is very close to us - been meaning to go and try their air rifle set up too

By Corporate targets does that mean easier ones?? Are you nearby?

[mpmilo]

Yes , easier targets. The lane and barn are a bit stiffer, when its windy... a lot stiffer. Im based in Chichester so its my local ground although Hownhall, Crows Hall are 10 mins away. I dont shoot a lot of fibre wad grounds but will shoot Crows hall sportrap on weds this year i think.

 

10 minutes ago, LondonLuke said:

Yes this is very close to us - been meaning to go and try their air rifle set up too

By Corporate targets does that mean easier ones?? Are you nearby?

 

Edited Friday at 20:43 by mpmilo

[LondonLuke]

55 minutes ago, Westley said:

Take a look at some of the 28" barrel game guns available. A shooting pal has just bought a ATA game gun that weighs under 7lbs. in 12 bore. Coupled with 21 or 24 gram cartridges it would make a good starter gun for a lady. I also know of 2 ladies that both use Winchester 101 lightweight game guns. Neither paid more than £500 for them. I would stick with a 12 bore as there is a bigger range of cartridges available. I also have a Beretta 303 12 bore, that is fractionally over 7lbs. in weight. Try and go to a shop that has a shooting ground,  or at least somewhere where you can try the guns. Any stock can be altered to fit, with the possible exception of the 'plastic' variety. 

Thank you - good advice. I’m guessing cartridges will be cheaper too as more mass produced!

[Westley]

11 hours ago, LondonLuke said:

Thank you - good advice. I’m guessing cartridges will be cheaper too as more mass produced!

Correct.

[vmaxphil]

Personality I would introduce her to shooting by going to a ground and treating her to an introduction to shooting 25 clays and cartridges type thing. They will then match her up to a suitable gun. Then you'll know how expensive it's going to get 🤣

[Old farrier]

3 hours ago, vmaxphil said:

Personality I would introduce her to shooting by going to a ground and treating her to an introduction to shooting 25 clays and cartridges type thing. They will then match her up to a suitable gun. Then you'll know how expensive it's going to get 🤣

This ^^^^^^

all day long a one on one lesson gun cartridges and tuition along with a few safety briefings all a win in my book for a few £££ 

all at little outlay bear in mind she may not like it that’ll make it a cheaper option and no blame on you 

or a good grounding at the start if she does want to continue 

[Dan C]

My other half has also show an interest, she came and had a go at a local clay ground and didnt get on to well, even with a 20g and light cartridges it hurt her and felt all wrong.

We decided a coach would be the best bet and booked to have a 30 clay experience, they give her a gun that suited her and her build and with someone who knows what they are doing teaching her she came back wanting to book the 50 bird experience and absolutely loved it.

We have been out today and hired the same gun she used and again loved it.

We got chatting to another instructor their he said to try the ladies 12g they have their next time as thinks a lighter 12g that's the same weight as the 20 would also suit her and obviously 12g cartridges are cheaper. 

On that I don't think it matters if you get her a 20 or 12 but as long as it's light enough for her, fits her etc. I guess it's about finding a balance between fit, gun weight and cartridge choice. I'd book her a couple experiences and see how she gets on and what she likes.

[HantsRob]

SImilar to Dan, I let a slender female use my 20 gauge with a lighter load, and it kicked her far harder than a 12 gauge with a light load did.

Gunmount - don't underestimate face/cheek slap and impact on the shoulder if it isn't mounted right
Cartridge - I'd definitely go 21g in a 12 gauge and NOT 24g. I'd rather they "only" hit 50% and loved it, than hitting 60% and getting a hard kick
Stands - choose the newbie stands. There is no reason to miss an easy bird with a 21g in a 12, or something less in a 20
"Have a go" stands - plenty of places that let you have a go, but someone qualified should help
Ladies guns - guns like the Vittoria are great for ladies. But, you need to try what you can!

I am in North West Hampshire, I often travel to go to a nice ground. There are a few that may suit you if you're happy to do a bit of travelling, but it depends if a Monday and Tuesday is essential? 

Wallers Ash
Popham
Stockbridge
Lains
Bisley Long Siberia
Petersfield

Some of them are a saturday or sunday only, and I have deliberately left a few out that I do not like. 

If you ever wanted to travel to Hampshire I'd happily take you both out with a "normal" 12 gauge, a 20 gauge silver pigeon, and a Benelli M2. Then you can try them all.

Finally, don't underestimate the holistic side! Somewhere like Barbury (near Swindon) has a really great gun shop where they will let you borrow a second hand gun if you're interested in buying, has an amazing selection of targets, great food and coffee, and overall very friendly. It's one of my go-to's!
Somewhere like Purbeck has amazing woodland targets in their forest, but their gun selection is poor, but with friends is an amazing day out.