TonySmith Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Anyone else encountered this..? The other 'Arf' has been asked by her employer to produce 'photo evidence' of who she is, Passport/Photo Driving License if case she is an illegal worker, she has only been at this company for 22 years. :unsure: The company has been caught out employing 'illegals' in the summer, and they are taking steps to ensure that they do not employ any more illegals, and her HR dept has gone into some total 'illegal' paranoia..... They have been photocopying passports and sending copies to HO, I thought that would be illegal, as its crown copyright, and you only have to produce your passport on demand to a police officer, customs officer, immigration officer, official of the passport agency . And a passport is no indication for a right to work..? I also thought, that once you received your N.I number at the ripe age of 16, that is proof enough that you are a 'UK citizen' Getting my conspiracy hat on... all seems like a back door approach for compulsory I.D cards, takes the onus off employers to prove who their employees are, and this blanket approach rules out any 'discrimination' by some minority who feel their human rights have been violated ..or whatever...lol... Will be interesting, my wife does not have a passport or driving license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 ...Funny that, as I thought it was the Home Office that recently got caught employing illegals... :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonD Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Yep, We had the same at work, HR sending stroppy emails saying they wanted copies and would only accept Passport. I couldn't find mine and as I wasn't planning on going abroad couldn't be bothered spending time looking for it purely for their benefit. Basically told them if they want a copy 1, they can let me go and get the pictures done in their time at their expense. 2, They can pay for the replacement passport etc. Never got another email after that. Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8landy Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Yep my compnay also asked for the same this year. Apparently a senior bod in the compnay was not legal to work in the Uk, so it spiraled down. Do we all work for the same compnay I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delbert Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Like the dog on TV says- oh yes! 30 years working for the same company (it gets rebranded bought etc periodically) and I got asked that question anyone wants to know the height of stupidity I think I found it . To put it in perspective the UK CEO is a shooting buddy who I started off clayshooting (dammed fine game shot he is too) signs off my SC, they have on file copies of all my certificates Licences etc?. Yes it's another backdoor attempt to force the ID they already tried it on at Manchester Airport telling staff they would not be employed unless they had one then had to back down withdrawing the threat. Which is why the so called 'voluntary scheme' is in the toilet they couldn't force, con or coerce enough people to give it any credibilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST3V3 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 all employers should have a copy of passport or birth certificate on file even if they know you are british as otherwise it would be seen to be as if you were victimising people who may not be britsh or something like that if they are not british they need to produce a passport which should have a work visa in it if there from outside the eu if there from the eu then there allowed to work theres more to than that but thats the basics we had a problem at work a while ago which we dealt with so checked everyone contacted home office as to what to look for who sent us a book checked everyone against various stamps on visa's right down to the font used I thought we had a problem with a guy from andora as according to the home office book they stopped using the stamp on his visa 2 years before the date on it so i contacted the home office there reply was "oh we didnt bother enforcing the change of stamp" so how the hell are we supposed to check this on top of which they wouldnt give details wether he was legal or not just that if we were employing illegal's we could be prosecuted for it :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSS Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I know this is different but it is linked so excuse me. I went into a well known supermarket the other day to buy some tobacco. They asked me for ID because I dont look 25(?). The only photographic ID I had on me at the time was my FAC, which being endorsed by the chief police officer and having my name and address along with a photograph of me should have been good enough. The woman behind the counter looked at me gone out and said " I cant accept that as ID, I've never seen one of those before!" :unsure: Nothing I could say at that time would have convinced her so I walked out, very frustrated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I had been teaching at a school for thirty years when the CRB came along. The school secretary asked me to produce a utility bill, wedding certificate and passport so that I could be identified. Choosing my Explosives Licence and SGC as concrete evidence of who I was, I submitted them. She exploded with, 'I told you I wanted a marriage certificate and a utility bill!' I replied with, 'Who the hell says I am married?' and 'my partner pays the bills and it ain't none of my business.' and for the passport, I pointed to the two certificates and said, 'These are better than passports!' I heard nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danccooke Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I had to do the same when i started where i am (seven years ago) they asked for an updated copy of my passport the other week. I told them where to go. I am a contractor so they are not my employer as such but an intermediary that i work through. My emplyer has me SC cleared for MOD work. I tried to point out that if i am SC cleared. Just as the photocopy of the passport they have is now an expired one it didn't suddenly mean I wasn't legal in this company. To be fair I am just being bloody minded. They do me no favours other than take a cut of my pay (they didn't even find me the job, I did but i have to go through them) grrrrr. Red Tape annoys me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I know this is different but it is linked so excuse me. I went into a well known supermarket the other day to buy some tobacco. They asked me for ID because I dont look 25(?). The only photographic ID I had on me at the time was my FAC, which being endorsed by the chief police officer and having my name and address along with a photograph of me should have been good enough. The woman behind the counter looked at me gone out and said " I cant accept that as ID, I've never seen one of those before!" :unsure: Nothing I could say at that time would have convinced her so I walked out, very frustrated! As well as 6th form I work in a supermarket. We have a 'think 25' policy where if the cashier and/or supervisor does not think the customer looks over 25 years of age then proof of identification will be required to purchase an age restricted product. I can confirm that a SGC/FAC is not an acceptable form of identification as I asked during my training. If shops get caught selling age restricted products to underage customers then it opens up a whole world of problems for the shop and the cashier who authorised the purchase. Not only can the shop loose their licence to deal in such products (a supermarket not being able to sell alcohol over the Christmas period is a major blow) but the person who sold it will be dragged up in front of the courts without a leg to stand on and will receive a criminal record. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) Yep, We had the same at work, HR sending stroppy emails saying they wanted copies and would only accept Passport. My passport ran out in 1978. Only used it once. I've got a couple of Slovak lodgers and I've just fixed one of them up with a second job, in a chippy. She has been asked to provide her passport and other stuff before she can start work. Several local take-aways and a local brothel have been caught employing illegals! Edited December 9, 2009 by rjimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 As well as 6th form I work in a supermarket. We have a 'think 25' policy where if the cashier and/or supervisor does not think the customer looks over 25 years of age then proof of identification will be required to purchase an age restricted product. I can confirm that a SGC/FAC is not an acceptable form of identification as I asked during my training. Did you ask them why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSS Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) As well as 6th form I work in a supermarket. We have a 'think 25' policy where if the cashier and/or supervisor does not think the customer looks over 25 years of age then proof of identification will be required to purchase an age restricted product. I can confirm that a SGC/FAC is not an acceptable form of identification as I asked during my training. If shops get caught selling age restricted products to underage customers then it opens up a whole world of problems for the shop and the cashier who authorised the purchase. Not only can the shop loose their licence to deal in such products (a supermarket not being able to sell alcohol over the Christmas period is a major blow) but the person who sold it will be dragged up in front of the courts without a leg to stand on and will receive a criminal record. FM :unsure: It seems odd to me that the bank can use it as proof of identity but a shop cant use it as proof of age. something is wrong here. Edited December 9, 2009 by sharp_shooter_sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Possession of a national insurance number isn't proof of anything. It could be a fake, a hi-jacked number or obtained illegally. From memory, I think it is illegal to copy identity documents. Employers can inspect the documents to satisfy themselves about identity, but there is no legal reason to hold on to a copy. As for an employer looking at a passport and saying it was a real one, I have to laugh. If I had a £5 for every bent passport I have had hold of, I could buy a new Krieghoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boromir Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 As well as 6th form I work in a supermarket. We have a 'think 25' policy where if the cashier and/or supervisor does not think the customer looks over 25 years of age then proof of identification will be required to purchase an age restricted product. I can confirm that a SGC/FAC is not an acceptable form of identification as I asked during my training. FM :unsure: I can confirm that this is correct but I managed to get my liquour using my SGC as I didnt have my Driving licence with me, the hassle you have to go through though, I had to so to go from checkout to customer service desk and then the manager not good when you got a que behind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berties Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 i have said for years one id card should do it all with all the agencies working together sharing information i believe the passport and driving licence share info and you can use the same picture,surely one id picture card could hold driving,ni,passport licensing and could be swiped to authorize it is valid by shops or big brother if you got nothing to hide id cards are a good idea lets face it big brother is watching our moves all the time he knows what food we eat thanks to tescos etc and can even vet our ip adress like every good or bad idea it would cost money on a long term bases,and even the new chipped passports take longer to be scanned at passport control and make you look guilty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I've got to prove identity with my new employer and had to order a replacement birth certificate (havent a clue where original is) so they can see i was born in the UK and not an illegal alien. Offical position i was told is,although they know im British born-they cant be seen to discriminate against black people etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covlocks Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 The requirement for evidence of who you are is "photo ID". That is not specifically a Driving License or Passport, although everyone asks for that because its easy to recognise as something you havent knocked up at home on your PC. I have used my SGC, once I think, only because that is what I only had on me at the time - but the person looking at it had only my word that it was a genuine document as they had never seen one before. The case for ID cards - I can never understand the oposition, its not an infringement in anyway, just a standard form of ID. Let's face it we carry Driving Licences, Credit Cards, Passports, and more often that not now, a form of ID for work. So whats the problem with consolidating it into one card?? :( Its all traceable back to the same computer network nowadays, DVLC, HMRC, Home Office etc are all linked, and photo's shared. I had my passport stolen a couple of years ago. I went to the British Consulate in Alicante, in Nanno seconds they had put in my driving license details, cross referred that to my passport details and my picture appeared on their computer screen. They hit the print button and gave me a temporary passport (I mean I paid for a temporary passport) - took less than 20 minutes. So why not an ID card?? and don't bang the Infringement of your Rights drum - it doesn't stack up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danccooke Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) I have no issue with ID cards, I also have no issue with Baby's having a DNA swab done at birth. If you don't plan on doing anything wrong than what is the worry. I am sure it would work as a preventative measure too. "If I rape this person my DNA will be on record and i'll get caught" They already have mine from a small indiscretion in a night club when i was a teen, so i know not to misbehave :( Edited December 10, 2009 by danccooke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Sorry but on my former Police bandwagon again, An MP made the mistake of asking us our opinion on this one once and he didn't like the answer he got from us. If you dont have valid ID on you then you can be arrested for failing to provide a suitable name and address for the purpose of summons, end of. If more people understood that then they may be a little more inclined to carry a nat ID card. For the normal majority of the public it is not an issue as you will all have something with you that is suitable. BUT for those trying to evade whatever, they will try whatever means to not divulge their true details......next stop a wasted evening for everyone in the custody block and the streets not being patrolled to deal with something potentially more important. With the advent of on street fixed penalties for so called minor criminal offences, this just led to more people being arrested for basically not proving who they are. Sadly and rightly or wrongly the onus is on you when you are stopped to prove who you are, not the other way around. Arrestable offence for failing to carry the card? - Thats the suggestion the MP didn't like however he didn't realise the position for not providing suitable details. Sorry if this starts another Anti Police debate as it is not intended to. Thats just the law as it stands already and why Mrs Miggins doesn't have a quick response time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusta Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 From memory, I think it is illegal to copy identity documents. Employers can inspect the documents to satisfy themselves about identity, but there is no legal reason to hold on to a copy. You can copy legal documents such as passports, when I worked for a legal firm a number of years ago we copied passports for money laundering reasons (checks). If your an employer, you should have a copy of passports, this is for if/when your inspected by HMRC/Police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Not being a passport holder where does this leave me? Even crossing to Orkney on the ferry ID was required this year, for them a bus pass was acceptable. Another question, is it the case of when on internal flights in Great Britain you are required to provide a passport as proof of ID. Coming soon in Scotland is a multi purpose card which will be among other things , bus pass and library ticket and photo ID. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Anyone got first hand knowledge of the actual sanctions imposed on a company employing an illegal (not just what is possible but what is actually being dished out)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shot shot Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Not being a passport holder where does this leave me? Even crossing to Orkney on the ferry ID was required this year, for them a bus pass was acceptable. Another question, is it the case of when on internal flights in Great Britain you are required to provide a passport as proof of ID. Coming soon in Scotland is a multi purpose card which will be among other things , bus pass and library ticket and photo ID. Blackpowder I do believe that there is no such law in place that require check ID for internal flights, but most do. However, it doesn't need to be a passport, a drivers licence or citizenship card will do just fine (on ryan air at least) :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) Augusta - Building Societies and banks used to copy driving licences when people opened up accounts and retain them. I think you will find they no longer do so if the customer objects, because once they have satisfied themselves of the identity, they have no legal reason, under the Data Protection Act, to retain them. As for employers, it is not HMRC or the Police who they need to satisfy, but Borders Agency. Edited December 10, 2009 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.