shaun4860 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) I look at them in the same light as those who only shoot once a week, own a 4x4 that hasnt got Rover in the title and wear realtree.............. cant be ***** with them!!! i hope you are joking with this..... i shoot once a week if im lucky....(its a cost thing) i drive an x trail and have in my time worn realtree whats your problem ....are you one of those people who look down on others because they might not be able to afford to do what you can? you come across as a **** im afraid, and people like you, i....and i quote..."cant be ***** with them!!!" shaun Edited February 9, 2010 by shaun4860 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) i hope you are joking with this..... i shoot once a week if im lucky....(its a cost thing) i drive an x trail and have in my time worn realtree whats your problem ....are you one of those people who look down on others because they might not be able to afford to do what you can? you come across as a **** im afraid, and people like you, i....and i quote..."cant be ***** with them!!!" shaun I think you have taken the wording in the literal sense. To make the point clear:- We all want more boots on the street but in the current climate we don't want a tax hike to pay for it, a PCSO is on a lot less than your average 'Full time all powers police man' yet still provides a uniformed presence, that at a distance is not that dissimilar to a 'Police man' still runs on the same communications network and whilst he/she cannot arrest anyone they can release someone who can from a morning of sitting outside a crime scene, directing traffic when the signals on Timbucktoo crossroads don't work and just generally make Granny Miggins feel that little safer, yet can still call on someone who has full powers at very short notice The analogy was to merely point out that just because they don't have all the gear or powers they are not to be written off, and, i for one would rather see someone walking the beat than no one. Hope that clears it up for you ATB PH Edited February 9, 2010 by ph5172 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) Well I can understand why he was confused because your post didn't really explain that point? Although to be fair he does drive an X-trail and so should be pitied Edited February 9, 2010 by Dr W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 A number of posts have been removed to keep this thread out of The Playpen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I think you have taken the wording in the literal sense. To make the point clear:- We all want more boots on the street but in the current climate we don't want a tax hike to pay for it, a PCSO is on a lot less than your average 'Full time all powers police man' yet still provides a uniformed presence, that at a distance is not that dissimilar to a 'Police man' still runs on the same communications network and whilst he/she cannot arrest anyone they can release someone who can from a morning of sitting outside a crime scene, directing traffic when the signals on Timbucktoo crossroads don't work and just generally make Granny Miggins feel that little safer, yet can still call on someone who has full powers at very short notice The analogy was to merely point out that just because they don't have all the gear or powers they are not to be written off, and, i for one would rather see someone walking the beat than no one. Hope that clears it up for you ATB PH yes thankyou, it clears it up no end..... but you must admit your original post was confusing.....but seeing as you will be shooting for the norf i will let you off.... Well I can understand why he was confused because your post didn't really explain that point? Although to be fair he does drive an X-trail and so should be pitied im only to be pitied when stuck up to my axles in a field...... ..only the once up to now.....(the other time was a tyre issue....lol) shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Actually the office of special constable goes back many centuries and generally they provide useful assistance to the regulars. You have got to be having a laugh! How can someone who only does two or three hours a week, never makes an arrest, doesn't take statements and can't do anything without a real copper helping them provide a useful service to the regulars? Imagine a qualified electrician with all his training and experience taking some well meaning untrained, inexperienced numpty out on a job. Special Constables should have been disbanded years ago. They are a total waste of space and have no place in modern policing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 i thought we were on about PCSO's.... shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Imagine a qualified electrician with all his training and experience taking some well meaning untrained, inexperienced numpty out on a job. erm thats what apprentices are isn't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 erm thats what apprentices are isn't it OK, let's imagine you are going in for an operation and the surgeon isn't accompanied by another qualified surgeon, but someone who is virtually untrained and only pops in for a few hours a week when there's nothing on telly. And he'sgoing to assist in the operation. Fine? Until something goes wrong and you have to rely on him. Sorry for hi-jacking the PCSO thread, but Specials are an even bigger waste of space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 You have got to be having a laugh! How can someone who only does two or three hours a week, never makes an arrest, doesn't take statements and can't do anything without a real copper helping them provide a useful service to the regulars? Imagine a qualified electrician with all his training and experience taking some well meaning untrained, inexperienced numpty out on a job. Special Constables should have been disbanded years ago. They are a total waste of space and have no place in modern policing! When my daughter was a special she would do a full 8 hour evening shift, certainly did make arrests (same powers as a regular), did take the occasional statement. However, as I understand it, the special's role is to assist the regulars - so she spent time directing traffic, on cordons at events, general community policing, and in one instance, accompanying an alleged (and later convicted) murderer to hospital - all jobs which the regulars were happy to pass on and released regulars for their more specialised duties. True, the training is not as detailed as for a regular - but that is, to an extent, the lack of investment in training by the MPS. May be the specials are anachronistic, but like the PCSO's, they do help to provide a visible policing presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Sorry mate, but in over 23 years at the front end I've not met one Special that could do more than sit in a car while real police did the real police work. At least PCSOs have to come to work when they are told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Sorry mate, but in over 23 years at the front end I've not met one Special that could do more than sit in a car while real police did the real police work. At least PCSOs have to come to work when they are told. ...and PCSO's are employed - specials are volunteers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Must admit that i meet PCSO's,Specials,regular bobbys & even traffic wardens on a daily basis and cant really fault any of them to be honest.My job requires me to park on double yellow lines,drive in bus lanes,park on verges even and they all accept its just something i have to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 You have got to be having a laugh! How can someone who only does two or three hours a week, never makes an arrest, doesn't take statements and can't do anything without a real copper helping them provide a useful service to the regulars? Imagine a qualified electrician with all his training and experience taking some well meaning untrained, inexperienced numpty out on a job. Special Constables should have been disbanded years ago. They are a total waste of space and have no place in modern policing! OK, let's imagine you are going in for an operation and the surgeon isn't accompanied by another qualified surgeon, but someone who is virtually untrained and only pops in for a few hours a week when there's nothing on telly. And he'sgoing to assist in the operation. Fine? Until something goes wrong and you have to rely on him. Sorry for hi-jacking the PCSO thread, but Specials are an even bigger waste of space. Sorry mate, but in over 23 years at the front end I've not met one Special that could do more than sit in a car while real police did the real police work. At least PCSOs have to come to work when they are told. All you are highlighting is a deficiency in your Force's training/development etc of what should be valued staff - who, for whatever personal reasons for doing it, are willing to give up time to police the streets - if you are so cool why don't you devote some time to helping sort out their training so they are not as useless as you describe - or do you have the old sweat copper attitude that it's better to whinge about something than actually sort the problem out - You're obviously quiter happy to let the special sit in the car doing nothing - maybe you could impart some of your knowledge and help them out - just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 All you are highlighting is a deficiency in your Force's training/development etc of what should be valued staff - who, for whatever personal reasons for doing it, are willing to give up time to police the streets - if you are so cool why don't you devote some time to helping sort out their training so they are not as useless as you describe - or do you have the old sweat copper attitude that it's better to whinge about something than actually sort the problem out - You're obviously quiter happy to let the special sit in the car doing nothing - maybe you could impart some of your knowledge and help them out - just a thought. I have tried. I really have. The problem with the Specials I've worked with is that they want the experience of fast cars and all the sexy stuff with no risk to themselves or getting their hands dirty. I was at a fight a couple of years ago and the nearest beat car coming to help me had to divert away from the scene because the female Special recognised some of the participants and didn't want them to know that she was a Special. The PCSOs I have worked with are for the most part hard working and keen. They are let down by their role being totally untenable. They were set on to deal with low level public order and youth nuisance but they don't work after 10pm and only work one weekend day per month, usually a Saturday morning. What is the point of then driving round in twos at ten o'clock in the morning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirFox Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Do they actually have any powers? Well, apart from giving someone a good talking to that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleekspook Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 They are doing shotgun applications and renewals in East Yorkshire!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 I was at a fight a couple of years ago and the nearest beat car coming to help me had to divert away from the scene because the female Special recognised some of the participants and didn't want them to know that she was a Special. If the car was on route how could she have recognised them, unless the car had arrived or reached a release point very very close... and by that time for her to be close enough to see them........................ then they must have also seen her? See i could be a Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ean76 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Best one I've heard is someone calling a PCSO a "laptop". Because they're not a proper PC! Made me smile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 im all for em. its keeping people employed, and a visual uniform on the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) I have tried. I really have. The problem with the Specials I've worked with is that they want the experience of fast cars and all the sexy stuff with no risk to themselves or getting their hands dirty. I was at a fight a couple of years ago and the nearest beat car coming to help me had to divert away from the scene because the female Special recognised some of the participants and didn't want them to know that she was a Special. The PCSOs I have worked with are for the most part hard working and keen. They are let down by their role being totally untenable. They were set on to deal with low level public order and youth nuisance but they don't work after 10pm and only work one weekend day per month, usually a Saturday morning. What is the point of then driving round in twos at ten o'clock in the morning? Its a shame you feel like this Poacher, I did a 5 year stint of 'specialing' and after the initial PDP work, which I have to go in fast blue shiny lights car I did what special policing was about and policed my parish, no car, used the buses, went to youth clubs, schools, parish meetings. (And made some good sound arrests, good sound intel leading to somethings bigger) But, I've done my share, I did around 50 hours a month, not as much as you albeit, but worked on jobs that the regs couldn't be ***** with, or too busy with other things IE persistent youth trouble, off road bikes, speeding, ASB in cars and been thanked everytime I took a job I could deal with leaving you guys to deal with the more protracted jobs. I actually worked my shifts when the reg wasn't on, so we had police cover on her hours off, which bosltered the visible presence by huge amounts. I was accepted as a colleague, have managed many incidents as OIC...and as a special, managed to write some statements, and realised what order the MG forms go in too. Edited February 9, 2010 by kyska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death from below Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Its a shame you feel like this Poacher, I did a 5 year stint of 'specialing' and after the initial PDP work, which I have to go in fast blue shiny lights car I did what special policing was about and policed my parish, no car, used the buses, went to youth clubs, schools, parish meetings. (And made some good sound arrests, good sound intel leading to somethings bigger) But, I've done my share, I did around 50 hours a month, not as much as you albeit, but worked on jobs that the regs couldn't be ***** with, or too busy with other things IE persistent youth trouble, off road bikes, speeding, ASB in cars and been thanked everytime I took a job I could deal with leaving you guys to deal with the more protracted jobs. I actually worked my shifts when the reg wasn't on, so we had police cover on her hours off, which bosltered the visible presence by huge amounts. I was accepted as a colleague, have managed many incidents as OIC...and as a special, managed to write some statements, and realised what order the MG forms go in too. You're doing better than me - 20 years and I still can't get a case file together properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 They are not a substitute for proper police officers on patrol and in numbers. The government didn't put the PCSO scheme together for the good of communities or for the self development of individuals or the next stage for people who did their Duke of Edinburgh Award, they did it to save money. My mate who is in the Met would on a daily basis be told by his "customers" that they "paid his wages". Ironic on a whole host of levels but primarily because none of them pay tax. However, given the recent press release that the sum total of all annual UK income tax receipts does not meet the annual state benefit bill I have now informed him that he can (as a UK tax payer) inform his "customers" with absolute certainty that he is paying their benefits. Cut benefits and all other useless government spending and put the money where it counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 They are not a substitute for proper police officers on patrol and in numbers. The government didn't put the PCSO scheme together for the good of communities or for the self development of individuals or the next stage for people who did their Duke of Edinburgh Award, they did it to save money. My mate who is in the Met would on a daily basis be told by his "customers" that they "paid his wages". Ironic on a whole host of levels but primarily because none of them pay tax. However, given the recent press release that the sum total of all annual UK income tax receipts does not meet the annual state benefit bill I have now informed him that he can (as a UK tax payer) inform his "customers" with absolute certainty that he is paying their benefits. Cut benefits and all other useless government spending and put the money where it counts. Mungler for president ,vote here . Harnser . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rascal_2005 Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 we have these othere guys in my town called community wardens lol. they fine you for littering etc. i threw a rizla on the floor once and the copped me: right im giveing you an £80 fine for littering...... whats your name?? errrrmmm?? armed vonstepager!!!!!!! see ya lol they do make me laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts