Dispelling a myth about shooting into the air!

[Robbly]

I think people are seriously missing the point here, the thread is about 'Shooting in the Air' NOT solely at 90 degrees!!!

 

If you shoot at a tree with a rifle, it'll probably be between 30-70 degrees. From 30-50 degree range, the bullet will exceed terminal velocity, as it will have curved and continue on its path with a fair amount of energy behind it. (I will run it through a calculator for a 45 degree shot) Therefore making the bullet a very dangerous projectile.

 

Yes, there may not be a huge risk if it is at terminal velocity, but it could still kill you. However the shots at 30-50 degrees are going to be the real killers.

Er....shooting at 90 degress is exactly what this thread is about...or have you jumped in halfway

[kdubya]

a bit of light reading

 

KW

 

http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/83/1/283

[paulos]

If my dog's anus made threads on PW, it would probably have made this one.

 

ZB

 

:( :blink:

[stevethevanman]

At the end of the day a falling object will reach around 125 mph due to air resistance slowing it.

 

125 MPH = 180 feet per second.

 

If someone told me they were going to shoot me in the head with a .22 bullet but it was safe because it was only doing 180 feet per second I'd tell them to **** off. It might not kill but it will bloody well hurt!!!

 

BTW, 125MPH is a bit more than half the velocity of a paintball, so not to serious, but its also metal, and a lot denser, when it hits there will be little dissipation, except into you

 

Also that is about the terminal V of a falling human body, a much more aerodynamic blulet will be going much, much faster

 

If we also want to get super smart we should factor in odds, falling coconuts acount for 15x more fatalities than sharks per year, think how many coconuts there are!..and all the different countries! You also stand a better chance of being struck by lightning than hit by a falling coconut.

 

Then think of how many people are actually going to stand a chance of being remotely near let alone hit by a falling bullet? How far the bullet will be blown around over 3000yds+, and then how little energy it will hold when it gets there.

 

It is actually safer to be downrange in the area of falling rounds than it is to be on a beach for a day in a lightning storm!..I think a close range fall, 0-1000yds will be something totaly different as bullets can kill at those ranges, however. What we are talking about is something warned about because it COULD happen, although very unlikely. Much like the mobile at a petrol station rubbish!

 

As for proof of armed trespass, they have to find the bullet ..which could be anywhere in 3 miles?

 

Steve

Edited April 7, 2010 by stevethevanman

[Rem223]

to put this into perspective some hail stones in this country weigh more than this and travel from higher up and are also much more dense than soft lead.

 

I can't be bothered to argue with you about the merits of shooting pigeons out of trees. I am sure there are places where you could do it but there is inevitably an element of risk. However I can't let the garbage you have spouted above go unchallenged. You claim a hail stone is much more dense than soft lead. Where do you get this from? Hailstones are composed of water. Density of water is 1g/cm3 density of lead is 11.3g/cm3 Please if you want to start an argument at least be sure of your facts in advance otherwise you come across as a half-wit.

[Chard]

I can't be bothered to argue with you about the merits of shooting pigeons out of trees. I am sure there are places where you could do it but there is inevitably an element of risk. However I can't let the garbage you have spouted above go unchallenged. You claim a hail stone is much more dense than soft lead. Where do you get this from? Hailstones are composed of water. Density of water is 1g/cm3 density of lead is 11.3g/cm3 Please if you want to start an argument at least be sure of your facts in advance otherwise you come across as a half-wit.

 

You grumpy old man

 

Why spoil his day with stuff like facts?

[kdubya]

I can't be bothered to argue with you about the merits of shooting pigeons out of trees. I am sure there are places where you could do it but there is inevitably an element of risk. However I can't let the garbage you have spouted above go unchallenged. You claim a hail stone is much more dense than soft lead. Where do you get this from? Hailstones are composed of water. Density of water is 1g/cm3 density of lead is 11.3g/cm3 Please if you want to start an argument at least be sure of your facts in advance otherwise you come across as a half-wit.

 

 

judging by some of the comments on here I would suggest there are other things a lot denser than lead

 

KW

[Shuck.]

Slightly off topic.. could a .22lr kill a fox at 1.5mi?

or would .17 be better

Edited April 7, 2010 by Shuck.

[shot shot]

from the horses mouth

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[fortune82]

I know this thread is about firing at 90 degrees but thought the following might be of interest.

 

When I was a lad I had a saturday job in a gun shop in South West Scotland. The original owner of the shop (his son had taken over) used to help on a saturday as well and was in his 80's, sadly dead now. He told me a story that in the 1950's he had been approached by the police enquiring who had a .22 rifle in a particular area outside Dumfries. The reason was that the train from Dumfries to Carlisle was being hit by .22 rounds every couple of days which were denting and or penetrating the metal panels of the train.

 

It turned out a farmer was shooting brancher rooks at a wood just under a mile from the train track. Every so often the bullet path and train connected. I know where this wood is and looking at the distance to the track I would have thought the train would be safe as well.

 

Just makes you think that fluke accidents can happen.

[pandamonia]

Quoted from the results.

 

"

Myth:Bullets fired into the air maintain their lethal capability when they eventually fall back down.

 

busted / plausible / confirmed

 

In the case of a bullet fired at a precisely vertical angle (something extremely difficult for a human being to duplicate), the bullet would tumble, lose its spin, and fall at a much slower speed due to terminal velocity and is therefore rendered less than lethal on impact. However, if a bullet is fired upward at a non-vertical angle (a far more probable possibility), it will maintain its spin and will reach a high enough speed to be lethal on impact. Because of this potentiality, firing a gun into the air is illegal in most states, and even in the states that it is legal, it is not recommended by the police. Also the MythBusters were able to identify two people who had been injured by falling bullets, one of them fatally injured. To date, this is the only myth to receive all three ratings at the same time.

"

 

its a pitty so many idiots had nothing to add to this thread other then derogatory remarks.

 

it was only just a theoretical question.

 

lighten up!

[Floating Chamber]

Blokes in the Phillipines are wounded and killed these days by W.W.II bullets that were fired in the 1940s. How long before someone reading this can offer the explanation? It's not a wind-up.

[shot shot]

Blokes in the Phillipines are wounded and killed these days by W.W.II bullets that were fired in the 1940s. How long before someone reading this can offer the explanation? It's not a wind-up.

lead poisoning and/or live cannon shells

[Floating Chamber]

Nope! They are actually shot by the bullets. There are millions of redwood trees that are peppered with bullets. When felled and sawn, the sawblade, cutting planks can intercept a bullet and propel it at deadly speed.

[Chard]

Quoted from the results.

 

"

Myth:Bullets fired into the air maintain their lethal capability when they eventually fall back down.

 

busted / plausible / confirmed

 

In the case of a bullet fired at a precisely vertical angle (something extremely difficult for a human being to duplicate), the bullet would tumble, lose its spin, and fall at a much slower speed due to terminal velocity and is therefore rendered less than lethal on impact. However, if a bullet is fired upward at a non-vertical angle (a far more probable possibility), it will maintain its spin and will reach a high enough speed to be lethal on impact. Because of this potentiality, firing a gun into the air is illegal in most states, and even in the states that it is legal, it is not recommended by the police. Also the MythBusters were able to identify two people who had been injured by falling bullets, one of them fatally injured. To date, this is the only myth to receive all three ratings at the same time.

"

 

its a pitty so many idiots had nothing to add to this thread other then derogatory remarks.

 

it was only just a theoretical question.

 

lighten up!

 

 

It wasn't a theoretical question at all. In your opening diatribe, you dismiss anybody that doesn't agree with your naive tripe as being a "grumpy old man"

 

You clearly don't know your **** from your elbow when it comes to shooting, though you're trying to put yourself across as some kind of expert. You read up some drivel on the internet and then post it on here as if it's your pet subject.

 

When it gets disproved, once again, you dismiss everybody who didn't believe your nonsense as "idiots". How does that work then?

 

You've tried (unsuccessfully) to firstly say that it was intended as a bit of a wind-up, now it's a "theoretical question". It was neither.

[pandamonia]

It wasn't a theoretical question at all. In your opening diatribe, you dismiss anybody that doesn't agree with your naive tripe as being a "grumpy old man"

 

You clearly don't know your **** from your elbow when it comes to shooting, though you're trying to put yourself across as some kind of expert. You read up some drivel on the internet and then post it on here as if it's your pet subject.

 

When it gets disproved, once again, you dismiss everybody who didn't believe your nonsense as "idiots". How does that work then?

 

You've tried (unsuccessfully) to firstly say that it was intended as a bit of a wind-up, now it's a "theoretical question". It was neither.

 

Chard you are just a grade A Cock thats all.

 

Why dont you get out the house more, rather than sit at your PC posting on a forum all day.

 

by the looks of your post count you must be a bed ridden cripple.

[al4x]

[Zapp]

its a pitty so many idiots had nothing to add to this thread other then derogatory remarks.

 

Chard you are just a grade A Cock thats all.

 

by the looks of your post count you must be a bed ridden cripple.

 

[magman]

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Im frankly getting so tired of hearing grumpy old men telling people you are an idiot for shotting a 22lr into the air, its unsafe bla bla bla.

 

Time and time again i have heard people jump on others for shooting vertically pigeons out of roosts.

 

its not something i have done since i got a shotgun

 

 

it was only just a theoretical question.

 

lighten up!

 

You Cock

Edited April 9, 2010 by magman

[MC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is that the famous 3 strikes and your out?

[hurstpol]

not to be a grumpy old man in this case but I would own up to it readily in other cases here is my tuppence worth and I could not care less if you agree with me or not.

 

 

if you are out shooting, before you pull the trigger in my opinion you should adhere to the standard procedures, is the shot a safe shot is there a good back stop do you know where the round will go if you miss the target, basically if you can not answer yes to this it is not a safe shot and it matters not if it is a shot horizontally or a shot into the air the same rules apply.

 

if you do not think these rules apply you should not be shooting especially if you are anywhere near me or my family.

 

 

frank

[Chard]

Chard you are just a grade A Cock thats all.

 

Why dont you get out the house more, rather than sit at your PC posting on a forum all day.

 

by the looks of your post count you must be a bed ridden cripple.

 

 

**** off you gormless little *****. You've shown the entire forum that you know **** all about anything, let alone guns.

 

You're just a piece of ****.

 

You are a sad little fantasist tosswad, who can do no more than dream and try and impress with nonsense. Go away and try and impress the airsoft boys, they enjoy a good Walting session.

[paulos]

**** off you gormless little *****. You've shown the entire forum that you know **** all about anything, let alone guns.

 

You're just a piece of ****.

 

You are a sad little fantasist tosswad, who can do no more than dream and try and impress with nonsense. Go away and try and impress the airsoft boys, they enjoy a good Walting session.

 

In fairness though Chard, you ARE a grade A cock :lol:

[Chard]

In fairness though Chard, you ARE a grade A cock :lol:

 

 

I know that, you know that, but we must keep up standards

 

******* students

[mikee]

so i the bullet is falling at 10lbft is not going to hurt

 

so how many lbft is required to kill a rabbit with a head shot?

 

im sure its about 4 lbft so its gonna hurt end of!

 

 

some years ago in the states a guy worked out the ft/lb required to kill wildfowl it takes 3ft/lb of energy for a shotgun pellet to penetrate sufficiently far into the ducks body to be fatal, he tied live ducks spread eagle fashion to a post and shot them with different size shot from different ranges

 

mikee