Dispelling a myth about shooting into the air!

[pandamonia]

Straight up, I might agree . But fired in the air at optimum angle it will still strike the unintended target with a lethal result

 

read the original post,

 

i said exactly what you just said

[Blunderbuss]

read the original post,

 

i said exactly what you just said

 

And you're both wrong

[tweedledee]

i`ll let you speak to a neighbour of mine.he was a doe workman shovelling stones off a road.as usual his workmates were lying in the cab when he fell to his knees.they laughed but didn`t realise he was shot with a 22lr.a chap was shooting pigeons out of a tree just short of a mile away. he still has the bullet in him as it was too near to his spinal cord. i would n`t shoot any rifle into the air

[GW80]

This thread should be pulled by the mod's, i have never heared so much #### about firing a bullet into the air!! #### me shooting is under enough scrutining without openely admitted to firing rounds into the air!! Don't forget we are being monentiored by not just our own!!

[MM]

well, its nice that someone has confirmed this for us. if you want to chance it, then go ahead, but dont ask me out for a giggle.

[SSS]

What a load of old ****, cant even believe it has been mentioned.

 

These 'grumpy old men' are grumpy old men for a reason, and what they say, in my eyes, goes.

 

They have far more experience than me and are old enough to know better

[hookbones]

well pandamonia, would you confirm where your name comes from !!!

 

is it the way with 1 tread you stir up a forum,alienating yourself to all? or the square mile of panic everytime you step out with a gun?

 

as said b4... if you want to convince someone of you theory try your feo.

 

 

<wanders off muttering something about the .22lr of Damocles>

[Doggone]

well pandamonia, would you confirm where your name comes from !!!

 

is it the way with 1 tread you stir up a forum,alienating yourself to all? or the square mile of panic everytime you step out with a gun?

 

as said b4... if you want to convince someone of you theory try your feo.

 

 

<wanders off muttering something about the .22lr of Damocles>

 

I think you're right, just trying to provoke the forum. What next? Foxes with an air rifle? 300yd HMR? 223 or 22/250?, semi auto for pheasants? etc. etc.

Andy

[Blackpowder]

An open question. The young rooks will be on the branches in a few weeks time, should we no longer cull them with .22s?

 

Blackpowder

[kyska]

I, obviously don't shoot into the air with my rifles, but many people do with air rifles, is it considered as much taboo to shoot into the air with FAC air?

[Wookie]

Would you say that the human body is more or less efficient at falling that a .22lr bullet? It must be more efficient, and therefore have a much lower ballistics coefficient, because I seem to recall that the terminal of a skydiver in freefall is around 120 mph, call is about 60 m/s.

 

Now let me talk about the materials... We've already disproved your [flawed] statement that ice is more dense than lead (ever seen lead float in anything other than mercury?), what about hardness?

 

Lead has a hardness of 2.0 -2.5 on the Mohs scale. The internet (wikipedia, sorry) has the hardness of ice at 0C being a "whopping" 1.5. By the way, that was sarcasm. There is a not to say that ice may theoretically get "harder" at lower temperatures, but having an absolute zero hailstone hit you on the head is slightly unlikely.

 

What about the speed of a hailstone? The search that I did suggests that hail's terminal velocity is roughly proportional to the root of it's diameter, meaning that larger stones will fall faster. Even then, the largest will only reach a max of about 40 m/s. something that weighs about the same as a .22lr round will be small, and therefor slow, maybe only 15-20 m/s. it will also have a larger volume than the .22lr round thanks to its much lower density.

 

So you have a larger, slower, less dense, less hard projectile with a larger surface area hitting you on the bonce. It is also likely to fragment on impact rather than say together, giving an inbuilt crumple zone as the impact is spread out ver time.

 

It's already been said that the velocities that rounds can achieve (theoretically at least) are higher, the mass will be greater, the density greater (giving a smaller surface area and increasing the force per sq cm that the impact imparts). Take all this into account (plus the evidence that people are actually killed in this way, and I for one will not be firing up at any time soon. I would not recommend it either to anyone.

 

I can't believe that I spent my time doing this on Easter morning. I rreally hope it was a trol and not someone that genuinely believes this sort of thing.

[Zapp]

I can't believe that I spent my time doing this on Easter morning.

 

Ditto my having read through it.

 

If my dog's anus made threads on PW, it would probably have made this one.

 

ZB

[kyska]

I, obviously don't shoot into the air with my rifles, but many people do with air rifles, is it considered as much taboo to shoot into the air with FAC air?

 

Can I ask this again? As its in the scope of the thread, rather than me starting a new one?

[vmax55]

ooops

[utectok]

We have had this one before . Basicly , any object free falling from any height can only fall at a maximum speed of around about 125 miles per hour . The weight of the object falling being the most important factor as to whether or not it could be fatal . Any standard bullet or shot gun pellet free falling and hitting you on the head would not be fatal , however a 56 pound weight or munglers wallet free falling and hitting you on the head would kill you .

Harnser .

While in a vacume all objects regardless of weight fall at the same speed but the terminal velocity of an object in the earths atmosphere is determined by the wind resistance and surface area. I belive they all accellerate at the same rate but reach a speed when they cannot go any faster (terminal veolocity) a mouse apparently has a terminal speed that never

is fast enough to kill it on landing! A shotgun pellet has a large surface area compared to it's volume so it is most likely never going to reach a high speed IMHO

Edited April 5, 2010 by utectok

[humperdingle]

A shotgun pellet has a large surface area compared to it's volume so it is most likely never going to reach a high speed IMHO

It's not shotgun pellets causing all the argument, mate.

[stevethevanman]

I dont think a bullet will kill if falling, it would have to develop a seriously high terminal velocity, evne then it will be falling straight down and you will have to be directly beneath it. All masses have equal acceleraiton under gravity, but because of surface area ect they all reach different speeds, never enough to be fatal though.

 

 

Steve

Edited April 5, 2010 by stevethevanman

[utectok]

It's not shotgun pellets causing all the argument, mate.

Sorry just trying to establish some scientific principles that's all. Relevent to all objects surely?

Edited April 6, 2010 by utectok

[Silhouette]

I friend of mine works for the Health And Safety Executive. Having read this thread he is convinced there is a case for the compulsory wearing of ballistic hardhats for all shooters and is considering proposing a study into the matter of falling shot.

[agjm]

The terminal velocity in slowest speed that the bullet could hit the ground. If you ignore air resistance you can take the vertical and horizontal movements of the bullets trajectory separately.

 

In the bullets vertical movement it will be decelerated at a constant 9.8m/s^2 due to gravity until its peak (where its vertical velocity is zero) and will then accelerate downwards until terminal velocity.

 

In the bullet's horizontal movement the only force acting against it is air resistance (which as a bullet is designed to be aerodynamic is very low so can be ignored for the purposes of this example). Therefore the bullets horizontal velocity will remain constant until it hits the ground due to its vertical movement.

 

The velocity of the bullet when it hits the ground will be sqr((terminal velocity)^2 + (horizontal velocity)^2). It can therefore be seen that a bullet will only ever hit the ground at terminal velocity it it is fired directly upwards perpendicular to horizontal ground. As the angle from the ground decreases the final velocity of the bullet will increase.

 

I think its safe to say: Don't shoot without a backstop

Edited April 6, 2010 by agjm

[Guest cookoff013]

everyone knows, if you shoot a bullet straight 90 degrees in the air it will fall straight back into the barrels of the gun when it returns.

 

i`ve seen elmur fudd do it, so it must be true !

[Billy.]

I think people are seriously missing the point here, the thread is about 'Shooting in the Air' NOT solely at 90 degrees!!!

 

If you shoot at a tree with a rifle, it'll probably be between 30-70 degrees. From 30-50 degree range, the bullet will exceed terminal velocity, as it will have curved and continue on its path with a fair amount of energy behind it. (I will run it through a calculator for a 45 degree shot) Therefore making the bullet a very dangerous projectile.

 

Yes, there may not be a huge risk if it is at terminal velocity, but it could still kill you. However the shots at 30-50 degrees are going to be the real killers.

Edited April 6, 2010 by harfordwmj

[deputy dog]

Well iv read all the opinions from all the members. I'l pop my opinion in now, which is.........KEEP IT SIMPLE.... KEEP IT SAFE....AND JUST DONT DO IT. Whether your in a wooded area or in the out back of Australia. You will never know who is about. The less bullets in the air whether from small or big calibers, the safer we all are.

[fortune82]

At the end of the day a falling object will reach around 125 mph due to air resistance slowing it.

 

125 MPH = 180 feet per second.

 

If someone told me they were going to shoot me in the head with a .22 bullet but it was safe because it was only doing 180 feet per second I'd tell them to **** off. It might not kill but it will bloody well hurt!!!

[Billy.]

At the end of the day a falling object will reach around 125 mph due to air resistance slowing it.

 

125 MPH = 180 feet per second.

 

If someone told me they were going to shoot me in the head with a .22 bullet but it was safe because it was only doing 180 feet per second I'd tell them to **** off. It might not kill but it will bloody well hurt!!!

 

I like it when people make situations like this. It actually makes you think just how fast that is and I can assure you no person on here will put their hand up and be willing to be shot by a bullet at 180ft/second!