breaking news

[utectok]

Ok it seems that gps will be informed and suspended sentences will be banning offences. But will guns be kept in clubs? That seems mad and completely impractical ??

[Vince Green]

Something tells me they will struggle to ban shotguns. Too many toffs have them and nobody ever wants to upset the money crowd.

Tell THAT to the fox hunting crowd

[Vince Green]

Those of us that were handgun owner know all to well what happens when the dogs get unleashed. Cheap politicians go with the flow. They see a good bit of political mileage in banning something.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Vince Green

[mossy835]

they said years ago about putting guns in police stations,then there will no time for police to do any thing.and if they want to ban shotguns they will, they took the hand guns off us,banned the fox hunting,if we had to keep guns in clubs is there enough clubs to take them all.if any one broke in to them my god they will have a field day.it wont work, best place for guns are in your home,

[alexr]

As a GP I am not sure I have the time to monitor your collective mental health. I Know your all mad, but your secret is safe with me

[reddan]

As a GP I am not sure I have the time to monitor your collective mental health. I Know your all mad, but your secret is safe with me

 

 

Edited November 2, 2010 by reddan

[jacksdad]

Keeping all guns at the club

Can you imagine the gun clubs asking for contents insurance on the clubhouse...HOW MANY GUNS!!!

Plus they would need 24/7 security guards, that will put the subs up a tad!

It would make more sense to keep a loaded gun under the bed..would make any burglars think twice

[Pastiebap]

And the ironic thing is, that if Police in mainland UK were routinely armed (as opposed to the ARV Rambo Types), or, the Government had not removed the rights of citizens to bear arms (as set out in the 1689 Bill of Rights), then we wouldn't be having this conversation as a Police Officer, or a legally armed and responsible Citizen, would've stopped this rampage dead in it's tracks.

 

People should be more scared of Governments that try to ban firearms rather than private citizens possessing firearms.

[Scully]

These are only suggestions,they're not even proposals yet!The HASC hasn't yet submitted any recommendations to Parliament.And none of the suggestions are new either;the licensing of airguns was mooted once more,as it was following Dunblane.

The worrying thing is that a lot of you seem ready to give in! Pastiebap is the only one who's made a logical comment so far!

I am absolutely furious that I have to go through one of the most rigorous vetting procedures subjected to a law-abiding person.Who else in society has to give the Police permission to intrude into one of the most personal parts of a persons life....namely their medical records?What the hell has this got to do with anyone except a doctor and his patient?Is your GP a qualified psychiatrist?Mine isn't.

We should be fighting for relaxation of firearms legislation 'cos it's bloody obvious firearms control doesn't work!Don't you think it would have worked by now..instead of getting worse.

We should be harassing the hell out of our shooting organisations,telling them to tell the Government we're not prepared to accept any more legislation.Our organisations tell us what the Government is going to do and we just accept it!!!!Shouldn't itbe the other way round?

Just sit down and think of all the things we have lost re' shooting in the past 30 years....and not just guns,I mean all the other little freedoms that have slowly been surrendered and eroded....and what have we done about it? Nothing.Our organisations have continually let us down,but most of all we've let ourselves down,through apathy and indifference.We get what we deserve....my son will be lucky if he can still go shooting when he gets to my age.No more....I am not responsible for what happened in Cumbria,no more than I am responsible for car bombings,but I own a car.

[the running man]

These are only suggestions,they're not even proposals yet!The HASC hasn't yet submitted any recommendations to Parliament.And none of the suggestions are new either;the licensing of airguns was mooted once more,as it was following Dunblane.

The worrying thing is that a lot of you seem ready to give in! Pastiebap is the only one who's made a logical comment so far!

I am absolutely furious that I have to go through one of the most rigorous vetting procedures subjected to a law-abiding person.Who else in society has to give the Police permission to intrude into one of the most personal parts of a persons life....namely their medical records?What the hell has this got to do with anyone except a doctor and his patient?Is your GP a qualified psychiatrist?Mine isn't.

We should be fighting for relaxation of firearms legislation 'cos it's bloody obvious firearms control doesn't work!Don't you think it would have worked by now..instead of getting worse.

We should be harassing the hell out of our shooting organisations,telling them to tell the Government we're not prepared to accept any more legislation.Our organisations tell us what the Government is going to do and we just accept it!!!!Shouldn't itbe the other way round?

Just sit down and think of all the things we have lost re' shooting in the past 30 years....and not just guns,I mean all the other little freedoms that have slowly been surrendered and eroded....and what have we done about it? Nothing.Our organisations have continually let us down,but most of all we've let ourselves down,through apathy and indifference.We get what we deserve....my son will be lucky if he can still go shooting when he gets to my age.No more....I am not responsible for what happened in Cumbria,no more than I am responsible for car bombings,but I own a car.

here here,the nra have the whole commitee coming down to bisley,where in an informal atmosphere shooting sports can be better understood. lets hope that one pays off. eiher way we will still need deer/pest/fox control and the bisley taret rifle crowd are bound to be untouched by anything.

[Dr_Scholl]

And the ironic thing is, that if Police in mainland UK were routinely armed (as opposed to the ARV Rambo Types), or, the Government had not removed the rights of citizens to bear arms (as set out in the 1689 Bill of Rights), then we wouldn't be having this conversation as a Police Officer, or a legally armed and responsible Citizen, would've stopped this rampage dead in it's tracks.

 

People should be more scared of Governments that try to ban firearms rather than private citizens possessing firearms.

 

I don't think police in your country will be armed any time soon. To me it seems like they're trying to maintain some sense of tradition and project a false image. Everyone knows that even though regular cops aren't armed there's an armed response unit close by.

 

But pretty much every other country in Europe and around the world arms its police officers and I think it's a liability not to these days.

[Algiz]

Bringing GP's in = someone else to pass the buck to.

 

Other issue is if you shoot and start to become depressed there are people who would rather try and battle on themselves rather than going to the GP, knowing full well that they may have their guns taken away as a result of their condition.

 

There is NO accounting for what happened.

 

Very true, there is a strong argument to be made that its only going to make matters worse.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Algiz

[Sprackles]

Well heres one for you all to debate.

 

My daughter has been a bit of shall we say, 'a rebel' at school having been excluded on numerous occasions for refusing to work etc etc.

 

School counsellor had a chat with daughter and me and during this chat I mentioned I had guns in the house...one of the reasons why she was not allowed any of her undesireable friends to visit

 

One evening, after having finished a set of night shifts, I was quietly relaxing when a hammering on the door...9.30pm raised me from my semi sleepy state.

 

2 Police Officers...wanting a chat about my daughter...they said. Chat got around to do I drink much...hmm thought I......do I take drugs...Hmmm even more thought I then am I depressed.....what..

They than got around to my guns, asked to see my guns, security etc and after all this, where do I work, who was my doctor etc.

Without elaborating too much they said the school had contacted them with some concerns...I was gobsmacked but anyway, they left satisfied...or so I thought.

 

Some 2 months later ,my FEO called to see me and started to ask me about some medication I had been prescribed some 3 years previously, the reason it turned out was that one of the uses of my prescription was as an anti depressant although I had been prescribed it for helping me to sleep after carpal Tunnel surgery.

 

He left satisfied....well I hope he did, I have not heard anything else since.

 

A few issues here....The Police contacted my GP without permission, the school said nothing to me about what they had said or thought and I could have lost my certificate based on what the school had alleged...I still dont know the contents as obviously the Police will not tell me.

This is not a criticism of the Police as obviously they had some genuine concerns based upon information passed to them but is an illustration of how easily we could lose our certificates for something which is unknown to us or not really relevant.

The FEO did say that in the light of recent events, Forces have obviously got twitchy over licencing.

 

The school councellor also referred my daughter to Social services with a report that this time I did get to see....wildly inaccurate, defamatory and based on opinion not fact.

 

This report was easily refuted and duly complained about.

I am pleased to say that the counsellor is no longer employed at the school.

 

My renewal is up next year...I am wondering just what will come up then as obviously that report will still be in my file.

Will a future mild depression suddenly trigger a revoke ?

 

I have some concern that I am not being allowed to see this report to address it properly and if this review goes ahead, I am getting worried.

Only consolation is I went to my GP to speak about this and he said he woulg gladly tell them I was no risk and should be allowed to retain my guns.

[MC]

The police did not contact your GP without your permission, you gave them permission when you filled out you application form.

[Sprackles]

I filled out my last form 4 years ago, the permission then was for them to contact reference that renewal surely, not an ongoing permission otherwise there would be no need to restate it at every renewal.

 

Thats just how I see it but I am not really complaining at that issue, its more the point that an unknown allegation has been made, serious enough for the Police to take this action but I am not being told exactly what the allegations are therefore I am not able to fully refute them.

 

My personal feelings are that there were some pretty serious concerns and the Police were correct to take the action they did, I have no objection to that...I do object to not being able to address those concerns correctly because I dont know what they were and I would hate at a future renewal for the letter from the school to still be on file and again taken into consideration.

[lurcherboy]

I agree with the an applicants doctor being informed.

 

 

 

 

LB

[al4x]

I filled out my last form 4 years ago, the permission then was for them to contact reference that renewal surely, not an ongoing permission otherwise there would be no need to restate it at every renewal.

 

Thats just how I see it but I am not really complaining at that issue, its more the point that an unknown allegation has been made, serious enough for the Police to take this action but I am not being told exactly what the allegations are therefore I am not able to fully refute them.

 

My personal feelings are that there were some pretty serious concerns and the Police were correct to take the action they did, I have no objection to that...I do object to not being able to address those concerns correctly because I dont know what they were and I would hate at a future renewal for the letter from the school to still be on file and again taken into consideration.

 

the problem is they can't tell you the specifics in case you work out who has made the allegations. like you i think its best if any allegation is followed up as that means the process works ok people don't understand firearms and you get the idiot factor with people talking to the police but its better there is a system where it happens. Who knows there were alarm bells the night before with that chump in Cumbria had someone picked up the phone they may have stopped it.

 

i also think the wording is right with doctors being informed, its only if they have a concern they would need to report it so small issues of depression aren't a problem but if they think someone is unstable or likely even to just top themselves then far better to have a system where the guns get removed. A surprising number of people use their own guns on themselves each year which doesn't help our cause at all

Edited November 3, 2010 by al4x

[barisaxman]

Call me sexist, if you like, but all this talk about mental health and contacting you GP etc surely will exclude nearly every woman from holding a licence!

I have had personal experiences with some of my "ex's" going well mad at certain times of the month. I mean really crazy and violent, too. Imagine that and having access to a gun!!! Will that have to be reported on the application and by their GP? I'm pretty sure if that did come up the womens rights lot would soon pipe up and get that quoshed, equality and all that!!!!

I can also see a problem with GP's getting involved, just how many men actually go to see there GP on a regular basis and how many would actually admit they may have a "slight emotional problem"? I've known lads that have had "problems" usually relationship or work related, some seemed they may be on the verge of a possible breakdown and the last thing they would consider is a visit to the Doc. They saw it as a sign of weakness. If these measures are brought in won't it just encourage more people to bottle things up and avoid their GP at all costs?

Its been said earlier, its an **** covering exercise, get someone else involved, someone else to blame.

[Dekers]

breaking news, gun laws to change

 

Calm down, and nothing is changing yet (or at all), if any possible change relates to tighter controls on criminal activity or medical conditions then I suspect the vast majority will simply breath a sigh of relief!

 

[Fishermanpaddy]

I don't think police in your country will be armed any time soon. To me it seems like they're trying to maintain some sense of tradition and project a false image. Everyone knows that even though regular cops aren't armed there's an armed response unit close by.

 

But pretty much every other country in Europe and around the world arms its police officers and I think it's a liability not to these days.

 

 

Police in Northern Ireland are armed, they carry their pistols at all times on duty and have SMG's (usually H&K) for checkpoints, patrolling etc.

 

Its the mainland UK police forces that are not armed with firearms.

[Fishermanpaddy]

"Sadly, you cannot legislate for the moment when a switch flicks in someone's head."

 

that really sums it up nicely.

 

 

 

As for this quote from Jude Talbot -

 

"I don't think we should be keeping things that kill and maim in a residential area."

 

I truly feel sorry for her but I think her judgement may be clouded by the trauma that she has been through.

After all in most residential areas I know there is at least one car per household and a car in my opinion is a far more dangerous weapon than a firearm if it is intented for misuse.

 

The BBC should be ashamed of themselves, Im not paying my licence fee to watch the television equivilent of a tabloid rag.

[Sprackles]

breaking news, gun laws to change

 

Calm down, and nothing is changing yet (or at all), if any possible change relates to tighter controls on criminal activity or medical conditions then I suspect the vast majority will simply breath a sigh of relief!

 

 

It depends on how far they go with the medical aspect.

Minor depression is not enough currently to warrant refusal, in fact according to BASC, if you are OK medically to drive a car then you are fit enough to own a gun.

It leaves too much for interpretation depending on a whim.

It also means that people may defer seeking help when they really need it which may lead to a worsening of a condiion.

 

In the killers case, perhaps the threatening behaviour towards a custmer shuld have been the first sign to set alarms going.

Almost all of us will suffer from the blues at some point, most will ignore it and work through it, some may ask thier doctor about it.

Is that going to be sufficient in the future to have our guns removed from us.

[Dave-G]

Is that "threatening behavior" or alleged threatening behavior? I can't find any details of it via Google.

 

I'm a cabbie and a very small minority of 'customers' like to dispute or evade the fare alltogether. If I remonstrate with them over their debt to me - at the end of the journey natch - and they make a claim about my attempts to get paid if the police are involved does that make me a risk?

Edited November 3, 2010 by Dave-G

[Colster]

This just seems like a diversion by the police to get any blame away from their lamentable response time in getting an ARV there.

[Sprackles]

Is that "threatening behavior" or alleged threatening behavior? I can't find any details of it via Google.

 

I'm a cabbie and a very small minority of 'customers' like to dispute or evade the fare alltogether. If I remonstrate with them over their debt to me - at the end of the journey natch - and they make a claim about my attempts to get paid if the police are involved does that make me a risk?

 

Having read the report linked in the thread re BASC response, it states he came to the attention of Police, he was not charged with it.

Misleading information in the papers....surprise surprise.