Should legal limit Airguns be licensed?

[the pelt man]

Too many rules restrict our lives already, this will be just another one. Makes our lives more difficult and those who commit crime will ignore the licencing system anyway.

 

What will it achieve?

 

How will they buy the guns without a licence ?

 

 

The same way they do now, gun crime with handguns is not exactly going down.

 

Personally having had airguns since I was about 5 I think it would be a crying shame if my kids couldn't do the same. What we are talking about is low power guns that can be used ok in peoples gardens.

Having a system like the firearms system will mean you simply won't be able to use airguns while you're young. Ok there is a lot of parental responsibility needed for kids to use them sensibly which is where we are going wrong at the moment as airguns shouldn't be on the streets and kids should be being taught to respect them, as most of us were.

If you look at the stats kids are killing each other with knives far more these days and what are we supposed to do licence them.

 

this is why the goverment is looking at what power gun is a leathel weapon before they go any further.

They are also looking at the knife problem, infact all problems right across the board are being looked at. We are just talking about Air Guns because it affects us.

 

PELTMAN

[al4x]

The logistics of it would be immense, getting weapons either disposed of or licensed.

I still know people that own shotguns that aren't on licenses and how long ago were they all meant to be on!

 

The government is very good at reacting to media pressure and looking at the end result rather than the cause. Why are kids these days more keen on stabbing and shooting each other, and running amock. Its a definite social problem and that is what they need to sort out with bringing some sort of respect for law and order back in then the problem will get better. Until then we can just keep banning things and the problems won't get better.

Licensing airguns though would just sink totally every firearms licensing department in the country IMHO

[Cranfield]

Too many rules restrict our lives already, this will be just another one. Makes our lives more difficult and those who commit crime will ignore the licencing system anyway.

 

What will it achieve?

 

How will they buy the guns without a licence ?

 

How will they buy ammunition without a licence ?

 

Don't lets get air weapon licencing and gun crime mixed up, keep it sensible.

No criminal goes out to do real harm with an air weapon, they use "real" handguns.

 

What licencing could help prevent, is the criminal damage, accidental/malicious wounding, animal cruelty and public nuisance caused by irresponsible air weapon owners.

These are the things that set the public against legitimate gun ownership, whether its shotguns, or air weapons.

[Ferret Master]

NO.

 

Yet another nail in the coffin...

 

I would never have got into shooting had it not been easy to obtain an airgun and use it safely. Also think about the price these certs could be, yet another off-putter to applying. This will mean less people obtian them and that means less people coming into our sport which could be the beginning of the end. If someones going to use one illegally then they are not going to worry about getting a cert!

 

FM

[Vulcha]

I wouldn't mind pay for a lience, just I think the fact it would reduce crime is hogwash. Think about it, air guns would be just as easy to get hold of as real guns. You can a proper AK for abouts £90 odd, or a decent springer for £100+. Which would a crimnal go for?

[the pelt man]

NO.

 

Yet another nail in the coffin...

 

I would never have got into shooting had it not been easy to obtain an airgun and use it safely. Also think about the price these certs could be, yet another off-putter to applying. This will mean less people obtian them and that means less people coming into our sport which could be the beginning of the end. If someones going to use one illegally then they are not going to worry about getting a cert!

 

FM

 

You have just made the main point why theres is this problem with Air Guns. "easy to obtain."

 

The price would work out at about £10 a year based on FAC price, a small price to pay for any sport.

 

You say less will obtain them so less coming into our sport. We dont want to count the missusers of Air Guns as part of or sport. It will still grow may or maybe not slower but it will grow. I got into it i have 2 kids at the moment & 1 is into it already the other will be so will many other shooters kids. But how big do you want it to get anway its hard enough to find land to shoot on as it is without thousands more free pest controlers looking for land.

Not taking a stance on the problem at hand will be the nail in the coffin as far as Young/Air Gunning goes, not, backing licensing.

those without a cert will be caught up with in time & pay the price. You can only take so many pot shots before you are caught.

Please dont loose sight that we are mainly talking about yobs not harden crims who use high power weapons to rob/kill.

 

Regards

PELTMAN

[il cacciatore]

I voted NO.

 

I think that firstly that there is sufficient laws out there to deal with the perpetrators of airgun crime that are not being used. Secondly I believe that restricting the sale of airguns to a licencing system would not stop the criminals getting their hands on airguns as there are hundreds of thousands of airguns in circulation and criminals operate outside the law and act in total disregard for it.

 

If we are wanting to license what, at the end of the day are not a seriously dangerous weapons (I'm not denying that airguns can be dangerous and fatal if used in a certain way and are no different in this respect to any other item) when there are alternative things that people can use that are just as dangerous if not more dangerous on free sale that can be considered every day normal items (like kitchen knifes, cricket bats, cars, bottles, golf clubs... you get the idea) then the only benefit will be to the 'anti brigade' who wish to hammer another nail into the coffin of shooting sports. All licensing will do is stop the 'new blood' coming into the sport because it would be difficult task to obtain a licence for breaking the chain resulting in dwindling numbers taking part in shooting and make it more difficult and costly for law abiding citizens from obtaining them.

 

I think that airgun shops should keep a record of the name address and serial number of any airguns sold and ask for proof of this (like household bills, drivers licence etc.) and write it in a register that can be inspected by the police but thats where I think the paper trail should end.

[Dave-G]

My vote is no.

 

I think people will simply buy them off the black market, from other people that didn’t take the trouble to register them. Most of the people who wouldn’t bother with the “system†would not necessarily be outright criminals. I agree it would reduce the amount on the streets – but we rarely actually SEE them do we? Stop and search is a thing that went away with the coppers forced into their offices by paperwork and the PC brigade. It’s not illegal to be a chav, and what’s to stop chav buying a licence anyway?

 

Another problem I see is that there would probably be different levels of control… for ones that cannot be modified power wise without major disassembly, and those that are only a screw turn or so away from FAC level – which could be done easily just prior to use (if we’re having a full and frank debate). And there lies the major problem, POSSIBLE power levels, and the botched system in place at the moment. There is just too much confusion about the letter or interpretation of the law. Even police authorities vary their interpretations. Little would change unless there was an outright FAC regardless of power, which few of us want. Do not think for one moment that “we†would be considered in the decision making. Yes, we would probably be consulted… then ignored.

 

Our governments can’t even count or record how many immigrants file through our borders – it’s too difficult for them, so how would they monitor the ones already in our attics, cupboards and sheds? If you get caught by a speed camera they can’t be bothered to check your tyre’s, tax or insurance – just pay an automatic fine… checks are out of the question. Even some armed response crews don’t know what an air rifle is, so all rifles would be the same in their eyes.

 

Bear in mind also that the anti’s are probably behind this. And shops recording buyers details won’t help identifying pellets found somewhere.

 

It would only partially address the problem at best, and be a pointless burden on those that are responsible with them.

[Ferret Master]

I agree.

[^mimic^]

Do you feel that if/when this is done that all those people you now would hang on to there guns without getting a licence, IF the courts are told to deal with any unlicensed Air Gun holder the same as other unlicensed firearm holder. Air Gun crims will be delt with in the same way.

Because the law is bad so is the attitude towards these weapons. If the law is seen to be serious on this issue so will the attitude.

 

PELTMAN

 

I stand with you on that

 

Not taking a stance on the problem at hand will be the nail in the coffin as far as Young/Air Gunning goes.

 

PELTMAN

 

And that.

[COLINSRI]

The only benefit is that if you have to give up the gun or get a licence then lots of air guns will be on the cheap. Will have to be face to face though. What a farce.

[^mimic^]

You have to ask yourself one question, If your afraid of putting your air gun on license or registering yourself as an owner, It begs the question, Why? What exactly are you afraid of?

 

Now comes a long Hmm

[rabid bunny]

The only benefit is that if you have to give up the gun or get a licence then lots of air guns will be on the cheap. Will have to be face to face though. What a farce.

 

hell, even more cheap guns on the market then?

[Cranfield]

Why do people keep suggesting that real "criminals" use airgun weapons ?

 

They don't !!

 

I doubt if your local chav is going to try to get one on the "black market", if they are licenced.

In fact, I doubt that a black market would exist.

 

Vulcha, are you suggesting that you can get an AK47 for "£90 odd" ?

What planet are you on ?

[Dave-G]

The only benefit is that if you have to give up the gun or get a licence then lots of air guns will be on the cheap. Will have to be face to face though. What a farce.

 

hell, even more cheap guns on the market then?

 

.... for mr chav to buy - on the quiet like

[Dave-G]

OOPS - not much answer to that really is there?

 

EDIT:

Many people will simply sell them anywhere they can at a loss rather than get caught with them - you can be sure the government will not compensate us for our loss if we hand them in.

[paulos]

cranfield is spot on here, no little chav is going to go to the hassle of buyinh an airgun through the black market simply to break someones greenhouse or injure the neighbours cat. a simple permit, which to obtain requires valid proof of identity would be enough to deter most. and stopping the commercial sale of them by non RFD's would deter more. its yobs we need to stop, not yardies and triads.

[COLINSRI]

The only benefit is that if you have to give up the gun or get a licence then lots of air guns will be on the cheap. Will have to be face to face though. What a farce.

 

hell, even more cheap guns on the market then?

 

The Housing estates will be flooded with £50 Tx200's and £40 weirauchs......the little chavs will have more accuraccy and power and their smk can be passed to little brother for nowt....

 

I have nboting to hide i just cannot see any benefit to licencing sub 12lb rifles. It will do no good except give Balir some more money to chuck into banning various types of hunting..... Its a stupid idea just like the knife amnesty...waste of time.

[old rooster]

For my money I'd say NO.

 

What we need is less restrictions not more but coupled with proper use of existing law, stiff penalties for breaking them and a return to such things as "hard labour". Trouble is we've been under the hand of "soft Labour" for far too long with petty laws and legislation to cover everything instead of using existing laws.

 

You should be able to carry a knife in public, it's an inert item with no intrinsic danger attached to it. If you then use it to harm somebody else you should get a really stiff penalty.

 

Same applies to air rifles or anything else with potential to harm, those who act reasonably shouldn't keep getting penalised for the actions of the antisocial minority.

 

Rant over, tin hat on, retreats to nuclear fall out shelter.

[Dave-G]

Old Rooster - thats good old common sense - sadly missing these days.

[Evilv]

In conjuction with the recent thread now discussing Airgun Licensing, I thought a poll would be rather interesting.

 

Personally, I think all Airguns should be licensed just as Shotguns and Rimfire/Centrefire Rifles are. Is there a reason that the government havent implememnted such a scheme? Are they right not to introduce licensing?

 

Continue the debate and have your say.

 

Of course not.

 

Licensing air guns would have no more effect on airgun yobbery than banning hand guns has had on stopping yardies, and gangsters of all kinds getting them and using them in our cities.

 

Criminals NEVER take notice of our laws and will use their native cunning to get hold of anything they want. This is why Chavs, Neds and all manner of yobbos have all the heroin, crack, guns, unlicenced / uninsured cars, your property and mine, and any other illegal thing they want. Why should anyone feel they and their little rat of a brother won't get himself an airgun if he wants one? I mean - isn't it obvious that the airgun yobbery we all object to is illegal already? So what is the point of making the average sensible lad or man who wants an airgun go snivelling to the local plod for a license to do what he should be fre to do anyway?

 

This last point is actually the most important thing for me - the relationship between the state and the individual; should be an enabling one. However, here in Britain, and all the more so since that Tw*t B. Liar got into power in 1997, the relationship is more and more of worthy, head shaking nannies telling free human beings how to think, speak and what they can have. Sorry Axe - I like you and you gave me much good advice last year when I took up air gunning in my early retirement, but honestly old chap, I am not in the mood to surrender ANY more of my autonomy to Tony Poppins' Nanny Party, so they can send me to friend Plod and ask permission to do some harmless hobby. I am am a man of 55 with a thirty five year clean driving licence and nil convictions, but I'm damned if I will tolerate any more looking over so I can walk down the street and buy a popgun.

 

Most people are sound and law abiding. Those who aren't need to be dealt with severely and you don't do that buy tieing up the good people in useless red tape and burocracy. The joke is, when Ned Chav gets picked up for shooting at cats nothing happens to him. He gets a fine, walks out of court and pays nothing. There are billions owed in unpaid fines, meanwhile Joe Citizen, duly fills in the forms, jumps through hoops and his compliance does nothing at all to solve the problem of Ned Chav and his nasty ways. The Tony Poppins Nanny Party however, loves to show the citizenry how they are all so much safer because they have 'acted' against airgun crime........ What a load of old twaddle mate. A few whippings of Ned and his mates might be a more useful direction to head in, but that would be far too nasty, wouldn't it, so lets just lead the rest of us around the hoops like a bunch of gelded donkeys instead.

 

I went for NO - can't see the point or the priority (especially when vs. the cost of implementation).

 

Why not license sharp knives? They kill / injure more than airguns each year?

 

Licensing is a poor substitute for installing more responsibility and common sense into people.

 

Bravo - nail meet hammer.

 

Those who think controls will help stamp out crime need to look at some of the figures for hand gun crime since all legal hand guns over .22 were banned outright. Look at history and learn from it, I say.

 

For my money I'd say NO.

 

What we need is less restrictions not more but coupled with proper use of existing law, stiff penalties for breaking them and a return to such things as "hard labour". Trouble is we've been under the hand of "soft Labour" for far too long with petty laws and legislation to cover everything instead of using existing laws.

 

You should be able to carry a knife in public, it's an inert item with no intrinsic danger attached to it. If you then use it to harm somebody else you should get a really stiff penalty.

 

Same applies to air rifles or anything else with potential to harm, those who act reasonably shouldn't keep getting penalised for the actions of the antisocial minority.

 

Rant over, tin hat on, retreats to nuclear fall out shelter.

 

Sound man. Post more often. Couldn't agree more. Well said.

[Ferret Master]

In conjuction with the recent thread now discussing Airgun Licensing, I thought a poll would be rather interesting.

 

Personally, I think all Airguns should be licensed just as Shotguns and Rimfire/Centrefire Rifles are. Is there a reason that the government havent implememnted such a scheme? Are they right not to introduce licensing?

 

Continue the debate and have your say.

 

Of course not.

 

Licensing air guns would have no more effect on airgun yobbery than banning hand guns has had on stopping yardies, and gangsters of all kinds getting them and using them in our cities.

 

Criminals NEVER take notice of our laws and will use their native cunning to get hold of anything they want. This is why Chavs, Neds and all manner of yobbos have all the heroin, crack, guns, unlicenced / uninsured cars, your property and mine, and any other illegal thing they want. Why should anyone feel they and their little rat of a brother won't get himself an airgun if he wants one? I mean - isn't it obvious that the airgun yobbery we all object to is illegal already? So what is the point of making the average sensible lad or man who wants an airgun go snivelling to the local plod for a license to do what he should be fre to do anyway?

 

This last point is actually the most important thing for me - the relationship between the state and the individual; should be an enabling one. However, here in Britain, and all the more so since that Tw*t B. Liar got into power in 1997, the relationship is more and more of worthy, head shaking nannies telling free human beings how to think, speak and what they can have. Sorry Axe - I like you and you gave me much good advice last year when I took up air gunning in my early retirement, but honestly old chap, I am not in the mood to surrender ANY more of my autonomy to Tony Poppins' Nanny Party, so they can send me to friend Plod and ask permission to do some harmless hobby. I am am a man of 55 with a thirty five year clean driving licence and nil convictions, but I'm damned if I will tolerate any more looking over so I can walk down the street and buy a popgun.

 

Most people are sound and law abiding. Those who aren't need to be dealt with severely and you don't do that buy tieing up the good people in useless red tape and burocracy. The joke is, when Ned Chav gets picked up for shooting at cats nothing happens to him. He gets a fine, walks out of court and pays nothing. There are billions owed in unpaid fines, meanwhile Joe Citizen, duly fills in the forms, jumps through hoops and his compliance does nothing at all to solve the problem of Ned Chav and his nasty ways. The Tony Poppins Nanny Party however, loves to show the citizenry how they are all so much safer because they have 'acted' against airgun crime........ What a load of old twaddle mate. A few whippings of Ned and his mates might be a more useful direction to head in, but that would be far too nasty, wouldn't it, so lets just lead the rest of us around the hoops like a bunch of gelded donkeys instead.

 

I went for NO - can't see the point or the priority (especially when vs. the cost of implementation).

 

Why not license sharp knives? They kill / injure more than airguns each year?

 

Licensing is a poor substitute for installing more responsibility and common sense into people.

 

Bravo - nail meet hammer.

 

Those who think controls will help stamp out crime need to look at some of the figures for hand gun crime since all legal hand guns over .22 were banned outright. Look at history and learn from it, I say.

 

For my money I'd say NO.

 

What we need is less restrictions not more but coupled with proper use of existing law, stiff penalties for breaking them and a return to such things as "hard labour". Trouble is we've been under the hand of "soft Labour" for far too long with petty laws and legislation to cover everything instead of using existing laws.

 

You should be able to carry a knife in public, it's an inert item with no intrinsic danger attached to it. If you then use it to harm somebody else you should get a really stiff penalty.

 

Same applies to air rifles or anything else with potential to harm, those who act reasonably shouldn't keep getting penalised for the actions of the antisocial minority.

 

Rant over, tin hat on, retreats to nuclear fall out shelter.

 

Sound man. Post more often. Couldn't agree more. Well said.

 

Evilv and old rooster, you have a way with words.

[henry d]

The world we live in is running out of resources and the only ways to generate a growing GDP is to tie everything in beaurocracy,this gives us more managers and pencil pushers(apologies if you work in an office I`m not having a go)we have more wars and civil disturbances,we have a blame culture,we allow people into this country willy nilly so they can do the jobs that we would rather not do and thus creates a new government office to advise those in parliament and there downward more and more jobs and therefore more GDP.

 

Things will not get more liberal they will get tighter and harder and tied up in more red tape until you end up going round in circles and disappearing up your own bottom.Lead shot will eventually be banned.Quarry will get removed from lists.Airguns will have to be licensed(somehow).

 

Still ,tomorrows another day

[Evilv]

The world we live in is running out of resources and the only ways to generate a growing GDP is to tie everything in beaurocracy,this gives us more managers and pencil pushers(apologies if you work in an office I`m not having a go)we have more wars and civil disturbances,we have a blame culture,we allow people into this country willy nilly so they can do the jobs that we would rather not do and thus creates a new government office to advise those in parliament and there downward more and more jobs and therefore more GDP.

 

Things will not get more liberal they will get tighter and harder and tied up in more red tape until you end up going round in circles and disappearing up your own bottom.Lead shot will eventually be banned.Quarry will get removed from lists.Airguns will have to be licensed(somehow).

 

Still ,tomorrows another day

 

Only if we let it happen Henry. Oppose ANY anti-freedom legislation with all your might and denounce all those who want to tie us all up. We should take a leaf out of the American book here (though I have a lot of issues with some of their ways). To be honest, and I realise this might seem an offensive analogy and I don't want to offend, but this proposal here coming from us shooters seems a bit like Jews in Nazi Europe suggesting it's a fine thing to get registered for a yellow star so they can demonstrate what good citizens they are.

[Mungler]

For my money I'd say NO.

 

What we need is less restrictions not more but coupled with proper use of existing law, stiff penalties for breaking them and a return to such things as "hard labour". Trouble is we've been under the hand of "soft Labour" for far too long with petty laws and legislation to cover everything instead of using existing laws.

 

You should be able to carry a knife in public, it's an inert item with no intrinsic danger attached to it. If you then use it to harm somebody else you should get a really stiff penalty.

 

Same applies to air rifles or anything else with potential to harm, those who act reasonably shouldn't keep getting penalised for the actions of the antisocial minority.

 

Rant over, tin hat on, retreats to nuclear fall out shelter.

 

 

 

I go along with this 100% and also with what FM said about a barrier to shooting - if airguns are licensed no one will go shooting in the future.

 

Hands up all you FAC and shotgunners who got into shooting via airguns? Now think back to when you were young and skint and incapable of filling out a license application form and when £5 was a lot of money.

 

 

 

Edit : Just seen Evilv and Henry D's posts and I agree. Whilst being a right winger I am also fiercely protective of civil liberties - less CCTV, more police, no finger printing children for classroom attendances or library reasons, no detention without trial, yes to the house of lords and yes to the monarchy. Civil liberties are not all stolen overnight, they are eroded over time - you won't even notice it happening.