Keeping Guns & Having Kids

[neutron619]

Morning Chaps,

This is probably a question for the older guys here, but any opinions and thoughts will be welcome. I passed my DSC1 yesterday which is a significant chunk of progress on my way to a deerstalking career about which I'm very happy - my FAC application will be going in this week or next.

The one small "fly in the ointment" is that my Mrs sees rifles as somewhat more dangerous than shotguns and is particularly concerned, given that she's 18-19 weeks pregnant with our first child, about all the issues surrounding having guns (rifles and shotguns) and children in the same house. The maternal force is strong in this one etc...

I'm therefore here to ask for advice on the subject and it would be great to hear any experiences you have, but - as I'm the first person in four generations in my family to hunt / shoot - it would be particularly helpful if any of you could offer some guidance in the following areas:

• General security issues - we can of course take maximum precautions in addition to those required legally (i.e. combination trigger locks, bolts removed from semis / rifles, O/U's stored in pieces in separate cabinets, ammunition locked up - are there others?) but how does anyone suggest that we achieve a general "warning away" from guns / equipment?
• Related to the above, I'm not of the opinion that we should be hiding it all away as though it were shameful, because like the alcohol cupboard or granny's cigarettes, kids will be most curious about what they're not allowed to see - but I realise that at the same time you have to protect them when they're too young to understand gun safety etc.
• How to deal with the times when the kids are playing in the garden and you need to drag a bleeding, gutted Fallow carcass past them into the garage? Or when you've got ten pigeons to breast and they've been out too long already? At what point do you start them off on the "if we eat meat, we have to kill it (but that's ok)" story and how do you progress it without either disturbing them at too young an age or leaving them hopelessly naïve until too late and accidentally sending them off into vegetarianism because the shock is too great for them when they finally work it out?
• How do you deal with the "my daddy's got a gun and he'll shoot you" barb in the playground without armed police turning up to seize your guns and other parents ostracising you? Do you just have to hide it from the child so they can't do that, or tell them and explain why they can't say those things?
• How do you deal with - God forbid - the suicidally depressive teenager, in love for the first time and looking for a gun because they're unable to deal with it properly?

This isn't hugely urgent - the child is due in January - but since I'm about to go further down the deer stalking road, I need to address my Mrs's concerns now so that she can carry on being supportive (which she has so far - and I've appreciated that, in case she's reading this) rather than worried for the safety of our children and our relationships with friends / teachers / etc.

Thanks (on behalf of us both) for any advice you can offer,

Adam.

 

[al4x]

there is no issue keep them secured as you should and teach the kids a respect for guns and their use as they grow up. But at no stage allow them access or to know how to get access.

 

As for carcasses expose them young to the realities of life and it is no big deal, I have processed deer with help from nephews and nieces who were under 2 at the time and they lack any thought that it is unusual. I grew up at times sitting on the end of a vets operating table though and was adjusting gas when I was 5 and I can't see its done me any harm.

[Penelope]

I have dressed game in front of my nieces and nephew and all three have been very interested, especially when used to educate them as to parts of the body, like showing them the intestine, heart, lungs liver etc. My youngest niece liked to help when she was younger.

 

Kids generally like a bit of gore anyhow.

 

there is no issue keep them secured as you should and teach the kids a respect for guns and their use as they grow up. But at no stage allow them access or to know how to get access.

 

As for carcasses expose them young to the realities of life and it is no big deal, I have processed deer with help from nephews and nieces who were under 2 at the time and they lack any thought that it is unusual. I grew up at times sitting on the end of a vets operating table though and was adjusting gas when I was 5 and I can't see its done me any harm.

[ferguson_tom]

Hi Adam

 

We have a little boy who is now 9 months are in a similar situation. Personally i think its something that shouldnt be hidden from them as will only make them curious which could lead to problems, when they get a bit older educating them about the guns and the dangers is essential. I believe the best protection for the littleuns when they are too young to understand is keeping the guns safely stored, my cabinet is hidden in a cupboard and i store the cartridges in my garage. I know the idea of you can never be too safe with children but at the same time personally i think breaking down guns and having them in cabinets dotted around the house a step too far and unnecessary as its more keys to loose etc.

 

With regards to the dead carcasses and birds etc, I may be completely wrong but if they see it from a young age it becomes normal and they wont be traumatised by it.

 

If you do have the issue with a suicidal teenager and they are serious about it, then what ever you do your not going to stop them. There are plenty of other and easier ways to do it rather than trying to steal the keys to cabinets off you and break into the gun and ammo cabinets.

[deny essex]

In general my son and daughter were brought up with me fishing and shooting.

They were never excluded from what "daddy does" but more shown upwards from the gentler side of fishing and shooting to the table.

From a very young age of getting bait for fishing (worms, crabs, maggots etc) funnily enough my daughter loved playing with the rag and lugworm while they dried on newspaper from the age of 18 months , my son aged 6 wouldnt touch them.

My serious shooting started with air rifles when they were that age, we were fortunate to have a long garden which could be used for setting the guns up and both my children were taught the basics of safety, handling and responsibility around guns as they got older, they were taught never to touch the guns without supervision. At the time the guns were non FAC so no cabinet but they were gun racked and chain locked.

My son started accompanying me shooting when he was 8 and from then on I taught him field craft and got his first rifle a little later when he could walk without chattering and treading on every twig going.

They both watched and learnt how to gut a fish, rabbit and pigeon etc for the table and eat the same , my daughter handled that initially better than my son, he would do it but would rather not.

We have never hidden anything from our kids but shown them how and why at a time suitable to their age and for us there have been no problems or incidents, my son fishes and shots responsibly now in his 40's, job done.

[Ollieollie]

I think deny has wrapped that one up. good answer

[neutron619]

Thank you all for your responses - much appreciated.

 

I'm sure they will all be reassuring to my Mrs when I show her this thread later on. As I said, it's easier to do this stuff with her support than against her wishes, so even though it's going to be some time until it all becomes relevant, I'd like her to be at ease with it before I go even further down the hunting / shooting road, rather than having any problems with it or not knowing how to deal with it later on.

 

Thanks again,

 

Adam.

[Livefast123]

I was brought up around fishing / guns and was taught to handle them safely and respect them at all times. I can just about remember the enormous sense of pride when my father let me shoot his Gamo Expo in the garden for the first time.

 

I have a 5 year old daughter and a son on the way next month. I have just started teaching the 5 year old about gun safety using a Nerf gun and a lever action cowboy gun that I got from Taxidriver off her. She absolutely loves it and would always rather get the 'guns' out than play with her girly toys. I am in the process of building an 10m attic range which I am going to hopefully fit out with returning targets and a good selection of air pistols and a 1960's Webley Falcon so my daughter can make the step up to airguns.

 

Security is a non issue, I keep my keys in 2 well hidden combination key safes and make sure that all my guns are put away as soon as they are ready to go away. I'll be getting another cabinet to keep the air guns in as that is the only really safe way to keep them with kids in the house.

 

I would be more worried about my children thinking that meat came from Tesco's rather than seeing a bit of gore.. Children are molycoddled far too much in this country in as the liberal tree huggers take over, what people forget is that kids love doing this stuff and the outdoors is far healthier than the TV or Xbox.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Livefast123

[keg]

I have an 8 yr old and it's never been a problem. I do have an incredibly supportive wife though.

 

Don't worry about the school playground stuff, again, it's not been an issue and I listed shooting as a hobby when I applied to be a parent governor and the info went out to all parents ( maybe why i didn't get elected )

[mpk]

My kids help me clean birds, the eldest one has had a go shooting and the youngest (3) knows were her food comes from and has no issues with dead things.

 

They have a healthy respect and understanding of firearms and absolutely no access to them or the way to get to them.

 

It's all about educating them correctly and not hiding it away from them.

 

And one day you will have another shooting buddy

 

Simples

[Dead Eye Dunc]

about all the issues surrounding having guns (rifles and shotguns) and children in the same house.

 

Simple solution...Build a kennel for the children in the garden then they're not under the same roof!

 

But seriously, it sounds like she needs a little education so she'll understand that guns, despite their potential, can be very safe so long as you're sensible.

[neil3728]

I'm the first in my family to ever have any type of gun, me and my mrs have 2 young daughters now 5 and 8. At first she was very concerned about me shooting (only shotguns). Once she saw the safety and security involved she started to relax. I do not find it from my dauters inface the 5 yer old will help me clean my shotgun and knows all about the safety involved.

[mossy835]

had my guns ever since my kids were born.now they have grown up and gone,

[spanj]

You need to get your wife on side before the FEOs visit as they asked mine (& I know they have asked others on here) how she felt about guns at home.........

[neutron619]

You need to get your wife on side before the FEOs visit as they asked mine (& I know they have asked others on here) how she felt about guns at home.........

 

Fair point, although I don't think she's that worried that she'll cause problems. I'd be worried about what was happening in my marriage rather than this if she did have problems with it that would lead her to "sabotage" an interview. I think she's concerned for how we raise the kids and keep them safe, but it's not as if she's flipping out or has a problem with them being in the house herself - and I've lived with her for two years or so. Since I already keep three shotguns, I don't expect a problem with interview etc. - it's just making sure that she's happy with the environment we raise our kid(s) in.

Edited August 19, 2013 by neutron619

[channa]

Nanna taught my eldest.Shes been plucking gutting and skinning since she was a toddler no harm done to her just very well educated.

[silver pigeon 3]

I have 3 boys between 11 and 8 and they have been brought up around guns and fieldsports in general. It is now second nature for them to see birds rabbits etc in various stages of readiness for the table and it doesn't bother them one bit. They all now know how to pluck and dress a bird for the table and are all happy doing it, the eldest has even been known to get up before me and crack on with breasting out pigeons from the previous day.

 

They all know how to handle a gun safely and all shoot various shotguns when out with me, again the eldest is this year on our flight pond syndicate as a half gun and believe me when i say i would much rather him sat in the hide next to me than some of the adults i have been unfortunate enough to shoot with!

 

The kids having banter in the playground does happen, but exactly the same as the my dads car is faster than your dads car! It's just kids being kids so don't worry, all my friends know i shoot and a few of the parents in my eldests class have approached me asking if i would take there sons out shooting sometime, which i have and again with a bit of education most people soon see how shooting and conservation really go hand in hand, so don't see other people knowing you shoot as a negative.

 

It will all be fine, just use common sense and adress any issues as/if they arise. Best of luck.

[njc110381]

I think that the surprise only comes when you leave things too late. If a baby sees a fallow being dragged across the lawn every now and then by the time it is old enough to actually process that thought, it is a normal action and not a problem. I'd say it would be much more of an issue if on their 5th birthday they saw their first mutilated carcass, at which point they may not take it quite so well!

 

As far as safety is concerned, that is what cabinets are for. All guns and ammunition relating to firearms must be locked away. If they cannot get the key then the cannot get the gun. It's quite simple and safety is not an issue at all.

 

My mrs teaches in a rural primary school and some of the kids are just amazing. In fact at the local country fair several of them have got times in the pigeon plucking competition that I could only dream of. I refuse to enter every year because I know that at least one of them will beat me and my mrs would never shut up about it!

[Kes]

Just to add a comment from my FEO at the time. When my son was 8 he suggested I change the location of the safe keys fairly regularly as he thought at that age boys become rather more curious and might want to look at the guns. I didnt heed his advice as I new my lad - once told you dont touch unless I'm there but you can handle anything if I'm there, he has been interested but never looked for or taken my keys. We occasionally do a few clays together but he's 21 now and the world has more interesting things to play with. He'll know what to do though if he is ever minded to hunt his own food.

 

edit - missing word.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Kes

[team tractor]

My kids are 4 and 7 plus I store my guns in one of their rooms but everything is secure and out of reach like it should be .

They both know guns kill people and animals plus watch me skin and gut rabbits and pigeon.

I like to fish and let my children poke and prod the trout etc as its learning. It's funny watching them pull the tendons

 

My kids love the country side and understand it .

 

I admit I never owned a gun until I was 14 but have taught mine since babies

[malkiserow]

There is much common sense on this thread, a couple of extras.....

 

The shot gun ownership will have little impact on granting a firearms certificate.

 

The kids will pick up on your wife's attitudes and probably adopt them. I'd give the wife more support and improve her understanding.

 

Good luck with the biggest change your life will take and your heart will find new depths you never knew you had. Enjoy.

[westmids1987]

I had similar thoughts when getting my sgc,already had a 18month old and although swmbo was supportive of my hobby had reservations,as every1 else says common sense and their not shocked at what their used to seeing from an early age,already got my eye on a toy sxs with ejecting shells for when hes a bit older to teach safety

[Paul T]

Bring your kids up with them and they'll be fine.

 

It's much better to learn about things and how to respect them than to develop an irrational fear of something that's considered taboo by others.

 

My 3 girls have all shot shotguns and USED to help plucking and drawing birds when they were very young. Alas it's a job I have to do myself these days and my girls ain't interested at all in guns/shooting anymore <deep sighing smiley>.

 

Pray for a boy matey - he's likely to keep more of an interest in shooting!

 

Hope all goes well

[Sian]

I had similar thoughts when getting my sgc,already had a 18month old and although swmbo was supportive of my hobby had reservations,as every1 else says common sense and their not shocked at what their used to seeing from an early age,already got my eye on a toy sxs with ejecting shells for when hes a bit older to teach safety

My daughter had a toy shotgun with ejecting carts from the age of about 3 yrs and loved to follow her dad around.

[neutron619]

There is much common sense on this thread, a couple of extras.....

 

The shot gun ownership will have little impact on granting a firearms certificate.

 

The kids will pick up on your wife's attitudes and probably adopt them. I'd give the wife more support and improve her understanding.

 

Good luck with the biggest change your life will take and your heart will find new depths you never knew you had. Enjoy.

 

I disagree with you about the shotgun ownership / FAC thing - if I show good reason for a rifle and meet their expectations of experience (already done those bits of hoop-jumping on the basis of instructions in a letter from my local licensing manager setting out what's required) the only thing that will prevent a grant is poor security, associations with undesirable persons or medical problems. If I had any of those problems, I wouldn't have a shotgun or three. Of course, they might investigate and take my shotguns away, but I feel that's unlikely, or I wouldnt risk an FAC application.

 

I will talk to my wife as you suggest - I agree that they will pick up attitudes from her (and hopefully from me) so a united front, compromising where necessary, will probably do the trick as you suggest.

 

Thank you for your good wishes - much appreciated.