lister1 Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Like others in assumed that membership with basc came with some form of legal cover. Infact I'm shocked that it doesn't. My membership is included in my membership to South Lincolnshire wildfowlers club. I fully appreciate what basc have done for shooting and wildfowling through the years and I will always be a member of basc one way or another but I believe that they really should have legal cover as part of their package. I'm not sure what to do now. Do I get the extra cover with basc or support another association? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 (edited) As above I get my membership with my Wildfowling club, i was a member before anyway. I will have to tell the rest of the club members they are not fully covered under BASC and best get something in place. In order to get legal cover pay BASC £20.00 or support another organisation for a little more till BASC give us all the package we thought we were getting in the first place. 10 million liability insurance but fund your own legal team. Who is the cheapest shooting and country sports organisation to offer this cover as standard? ill be joining them shortly. Reading through this thread most if not all BASC members thought they were covered for legal. When they realise they are not and have to pay extra I think BASC will sadly find a fair few going elsewhere next time. Figgy Edited September 9, 2013 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Your insurance with BASC covers you against claims made by a third party if you cause them a loss, injury or damage their property. Included as all legal costs for defended the case and any compensation payments or other costs that may occur. This includes cover for guns lent to other members, and it includes any damage your dog may do when working or being trained, but not vet bills. In regards to firearms licencing issues, we have 5 staff, three ex police officers and two RFD's who are on hand to offer a high level of guidance and advice on law and to liaise with your licencing team on your behalf if you consent. Almost all issues we get confronted with are dealt with in this way successfully. We have never been in a position to help a member charged with a criminal offence. And if a member is revoked because they committed a criminal offence there is nothing we can do as there is no viable appeal. We have long offered additional dog insurance and gun insurance over and above that which comes with standard BASC membership. And we are now looking to add as an optional extra legal expenses insurance for our members to act as an additional layer of protection over and above that already offered by the 5 members of the firearms team, and at a cost well below that of other insurance offering of or including this type of cover as far as a we can see. I can certainly see this cover being included in BASC membership at some point but not just yet, as I said, this is a matter for the elected Council of members. Best wishes David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Wildfowler Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 As a member of BASC Council, I look forward to receiving the Budget proposals in November to examine the pros and cons of amending the membership insurance benefits. If a good case is made, I'm sure it will be accepted. Most readers of this site will be car owners but how many know that comprehensive insurance doesn't usually include legal cover and if you want that it'll be an extra £30-£40, a similar situation to BASC insurance at the moment. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lister1 Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 So basically you get legal cover if an insurance claim is made by a third party. But for licence matters etc you're not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanieboy Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I rang SACS this morning and have taken out full UK Membership for £35 - included is £10m public liability cover for any one incident and £100k legal fees insurance cover. Obviously I can't comment as to the quality of advice and assistance they provide in times of need [and hope I never have to]. I have read quite a few comments from a number of UK shooting forums and have found nothing to indicate that their service is in any way below that offered by any of the other organisations. I don't know if other organisations do more lobbying etc, but based upon value for money, I would suggest that the SACS package is hard to beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Lister, Yes, as almost all third party claims go to law immediately even if they don't end up in court, lawyers are typically engaged by the claimant as a first step. When it comes to licencing issues, the vast majority do not need to go to law at all, they can be sorted out with expert help and guidance from our firearms team, either giving the member the correct information to go back to the licencing team with to clear up a misunderstanding for example, or giving the member more information as to why they have been refused and what they must do to over come it, and if that does not work we will take up the mater directly with the licencing team. There will be many reasons why a member may have his grant or renewal or variation refused of course, and as I say the vast majority we can sort without going to law. Its typically, but not exclusively, only appeals that really may get exposed to significant costs IF you use a lawyer / barrister, but as we have seen on another thread, having a good case you can win an appeal by representing yourself. If you have no case in law, no amount to legal expenses will help of course However, its evident that more and more members would feel safer if there was additional cover in place and that's exactly what I am looking at. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lister1 Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I see. So say you had an accident whilst out shooting and for sone reason the police are called and they decide to take you guns, which isn't impossible. Say the police force involved then decide that you are unsafe to have a a certificate and therefore revoke your licence? I know in such an event you would need more details but a similar thing happened and fortunately the pollice force involved see it was an accident and all was ok. Thanks for the replies David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenshooter Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I've had excellent advice and help from BASC, couldn't fault them and the advice was high quality. They have allowed me to hold onto my guns by giving advice on how to 'approach' certain situations and I was really impressed as to how well the BASC HO people and the local guy worked together to help me. It seemed that the licensing issue I had was 'defused' when the authoriites realised that BASC were involved and I also believe that the relationshops that BASC had with some of the licensing personnel helped as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I've been through all of this nonsense with basc in the past and although David does sterling work promoting the cause and takes a hell of a beating on here on a regular basis the organisation does not work for me. basc gives the impression that it is important and has a lot of clout with the authorities and is there to help it’s members. This is a load of guff. When I asked for help and advise I was told not to rock the boat and that things were a GREY AREA. There was not a lot that they could do and to seek legal advice. Or just take it. This sort of thing has also happened to shooters that I know, so my treatment is not an isolated situation. I’m not interested in a magazine once in three months or the like. Several syndicated shoots that I know of have ceased to affiliate with basc for various reasons. I walked away from basc and have arranged insurance cover with CC3. It is simple to arrange on line or over the phone. AND if I do get into a problem with the authorities they organise advice and defence help/ As far as basc is concerned there is no point in saying about practical help and then not stepping up to the mark. I’ll never use them again and so will a lot of others. It’s not a lot of good David saying forward me the details and I will see what I can do. The service has got to be up front and NOW in a direct form of action. No good shutting the door after the horse has gotten out of the stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Lister, I have been involved in over 1000 shooting insurance claims and as of yet the police have not revoked anyone involved in these accidents. Having said that I agree its not beyond the realms of possibility for a licencing authority to over react. Fortune, as I have said before, we are successful in the vast majority of cases we deal with for members in the context of licencing - not all I agree, no one is. We have good relationships with may of the licencing teams and that helps enormously, but more to work on for sure. We have worked on and helped to deliver significant changes with the licencing system at high level such as the simplification of the certification system, the changes in the firearms guidance, and the prevention of an increase in firearms fees being three recent examples. But there is more to do and both BASC and NGO are working on ACPO on this right now. Yes sometimes the service may not be what a member expects, or may not be up to the mark, but this is not intentional. If we consistently failed in our services levels then our membership would obviously be falling away , its not, its growing. BUT I know very well the members, and more importantly happy members are vital to BASC and we will always try to improve the service we deliver and that's part of the reason I am asking for anyone who feels we are not up to the mark to let me know so I can work to deliver a better service. My offer to help is genuine and heartfelt. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lister1 Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Luckily I feel my local authority (cambs police) have been swift when dealing with any issues I've had, though I've never had a major issue and hopefully never will. Its good to have BASC fighting our corner. I feel it woikd be a good idea to have legal support as part of the package. Perhaps one day it will. It's a shame other shooting associations aren't as involved in political matters , like basc. Whatever happens in the near future be it a lead ban or fee rises. All us shooters must stick together. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Interestingly there was a well publicised case a while back that BASC defended for a member who let his son shoot unsupervised from upstairs windows startling people across the road. Now that was a case that personally I think was a case of who you know rather than anything else. But it shows what can be done to help members when in need and this is really an important issue, but you won't help everyone as many will be hopeless causes. I can't get my head round whether the one kilt wearing organisation working from a garden shed has somehow managed to come up with the perfect package for shooters or whether as his membership grows so he won't be able to carry on the personal service and we will start hearing negatives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Mmmn kilt wearing organisation emailed a reply to me with copies of my I insurance cover in a couple of mins and even basc acknowledged they were part of the team representing against air gun licensing but he ho you pays your money and takes your choice I'm happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Interestingly there was a well publicised case a while back that BASC defended for a member who let his son shoot unsupervised from upstairs windows startling people across the road. Now that was a case that personally I think was a case of who you know rather than anything else. But it shows what can be done to help members when in need and this is really an important issue, but you won't help everyone as many will be hopeless causes. I can't get my head round whether the one kilt wearing organisation working from a garden shed has somehow managed to come up with the perfect package for shooters or whether as his membership grows so he won't be able to carry on the personal service and we will start hearing negatives Ah! But there was another organisation that started life in a 'black hut'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 If BASC currently have around 131,000 members they should be able to negotiate a very cheap premium for legal aid cover, taking into account the number of non criminal claims there appears to be. I have had a wide circle of shooting and sporting friends and acquaintances all my life and I have never known anyone to require legal assistance with any gun related issues. I suspect this is how the SASC have managed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Indeed - as with any insurance, you have to determine the risk before you can offer cover. If you are in a profession where you are more likely to deal with the police in your day-to-day work (security for instance) and/or have spurious claims made against you then, you may well be at much higher risk than Mr 9-5 professional who sits in an office all day and shoots clays every fortnight. So all the high-risk clients go to SACS, the low risk ones stay with BACS. Will SACS be able to sustain it if there are substantially more claims? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymaster Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 david i would not do your job for a gold clock. i will always support basc because of they work they do to promote/lobby shooting. they way some websites/charity's/media portray hunters is sometimes very scary. You will not please everyone, and if i have to take out additional legal cover for the cost of 1 box of hornady amo then so be it. the way i see it there is never one tool to fix ever problem. im terrible at writing so if this makes no sense, im sorry. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymaster Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 I do wonder with respect to insurance, where the risk could arguably be covered under household insurance, BASC, CA, SACS etc, that you could end up with all of their underwriters passing the buck, on the basis that "we cover last resort" so explore a claim under the other in the first instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 I am on the case people and thank you all ever so much for your feedback. As to kilt wearing, don’t knock it until you have tried it - I LOVE IT All policies can be subject to premium change (increase typically) based on costs of claims. It’s possible , if policies are ‘last resort’ there could be a bit of passing around as it were, but in the case of any BASC policy we would make sure any such negotiation does not impact on the case or the claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmer Fudd 1 Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) david, as a basc member i feel i may be entitled to ask, would you please raise this with the council/board or whoever would be in charge of membership fees as i believe that it would be a step forward for our organisation to offer legal cover in the standard package, standing us well and truly above other organisations. please excuse the cheesiness of this post Edited September 10, 2013 by Elmer Fudd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 i thought i was covered for legal insurence,till i read this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Elmer, no problem at all I am more than happy for members to contact be via what ever method they choose to ask questions such as this , and yes I will. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul T Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 i thought i was covered for legal insurence,till i read this post. Naively, I also thought this was the case and I've never looked into the small print. I joined because I need shooting insurance and a lot of shoots/clubs insist on BASC membership. If BASC are going to look into this, then great (thanks David), but it's definitely something I ought to take out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Please remember that your standard BASC package, with the expertise in the BASC firearms team, and our self insurance for appeals already supports you and will deliver for you in the vast majority of cases. What I am looking to do is to add an extra layer of specific insurance to give enhanced protection. As and when this is launched, the BASC legal expenses package will have unique key benefits over and above other products on the market. So not only will you be supporting our dedicated political and media campaigns to promote shooting, not only will you have the back up of a dedicated team of firearms experts, not only will you have access to all the shooting opportunities we will be delivering, not only will you have access to some fantastic discounts and offers you will also have the protection of a unique legal expenses policy. The BASC membership package will never be the cheapest but it will deliver the best value for shooting and its members. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.