Is killing really sport?

[telf]

i have read all the posts on this thread and must say there are some very interesting comments and opinions,i myself love my shooting which is mainly pest control,i shoot rabbits mainly but also have a go at pigeons and crows but fortunately for them i am a **** shot with the shotgun so best part escape unscathed.

however im not bad with a rifle and i get a great feeling knowing that i have stalked into a rabbit from 200 plus yards into a shooting distance and shot and killed the rabbit cleanly,yes i enjoy the whole aspect from the outset to the ending,the whole thing including the kill.

i have saw some fantastic wildlife when out shooting,things you wouldnt see if you didnt go to the countryside,so i think our sport is about more than killing things,but the whole aspect of nature itself,i still get that buzz whether i shoot one rabbit,crow or pigeon or 100 rabbits(notice i didnt add crows and pigeons there)

if we didnt enjoy it we wouldnt do it

[Chris Bb]

Superb post Scully, this pretty much sums it up for me.

 

+1, well said Scully. I'll stick to clays, thanks.

[dadioles]

You really are a great bunch out there!!!!!

 

I started this post because I was in that sort of mood and a bit fed up reading about which .22 bullet works best in which rifle (again).

 

It has been one of the most interesting, non technical, threads that I have read for a long time and so many of you have taken the trouble to really express your thoughts and feelings, and not just in half a sentence either.

 

Wonderful...... I wish the anti's were sufficiently open minded to understand how most of feel. You never know, one of them might even read it.

[spanj]

Hello Karpman

 

I did not have any great concerns about your first post and appreciated the point you made. Your response seems a bit overheated but I am not easily offended. Only the post from camokid seemed rather loopy, if I was referring to you directly I would have done you the courtesy of mentioning you by name.

 

I do understand your point and as I hope was clear from my post I too hunt and shoot, a lot!. I am a bit old to claim any rush of adrenaline but I do remember when it used to be exciting rather than satisfying.

 

The point we differ about, and it may simply be our different interpretation of the English language, is that you stated that you enjoy the actual kill and I do not. That difference is quite subtle and it may just be a play on words.

 

To my way of thinking, you have to hate something to enjoy killing it. Not just to kill it, but to enjoy killing it. Maybe it is something that comes with increased age but I don't think there is much in this world that I hate enough to enjoy killing it (house flies!).

 

Shooting is a great activity.

 

.... I just read your post... Have a great evening rat shooting. It really is good fun and quite challenging at times. Actually I rather hate rats...... and house flies.

but shooting the flies makes a terrible mess of ones walls

[WGD]

I enjoy doing what I do. I will let you categorise me. I shoot foxes and rabbits all year round. I shoot roe and red deer in season. I have shot grouse (walked up) this year. And I have shot driven partridge. I have shot wild duck at a flight pond. I will shoot driven pheasant and I will walk up pheasant/woodcock. I will shoot rabbits with a rifle. I will shoot rabbits with my shotgun over my spaniels.

 

I love every minute of all of it.

 

Is it hunting, or sport, or a hobby. I don't really care, I will just keep on enjoying myself.

[remmyman]

I'm sure that at 48yrs old I would be termed an old **** by many on this forum. But after 30odd yrs of shooting 'live stuff' for the table along with 'pest control' I can honestly say that after every successful trip I have a moment of melancholy. Not in a guilt ridden self berating way, but just taking a moment to admire the bird/beast whose life I've taken. This I find especially true of woodcock, without fail every time I shoot one I vow that it will be my last, but sure as night follows day when an opportunuty next presents itself I just can't resist. I've lost track of the times over the years that I've walked out to pick up a fox whilst out lamping and spent minutes 'really' looking, appraising and even stroking it, especially if it is an impressive dog-fox in thick winter coat.

 

I do the same with duck, geese and hares. To me this attitude is entirely natural and healthy, though I'm sure that many will disagree.Were not the same sentiments running through stone age man and gave incentive to their artwork? I do not like the way that our sport (that word again) is sometimes portrayed. Videos of rabbits being shot with c/fires accompanied by a soundtrack of maniacal laughter cannot do us anything but harm, surely? anymore than videos of people 'puffing' pigeons at ridiculously short range can?

I feel that the American influence is at work here or maybe 'the times they are a changin' whatever the reason I don't believe that it has any place in the public domain, but that's just me and will probably get my **** shot full of holes for saying as much. In closing all I can say is if/when the day ever comes when I view the magnificent quarry that I pursue as just 'flying targets' and have no more worth in my eyes than a clay, then that is the day that I will give up shooting for good.

 

Regards Remmyman

[BRNDL]

I'm sure that at 48yrs old I would be termed an old **** by many on this forum. But after 30odd yrs of shooting 'live stuff' for the table along with 'pest control' I can honestly say that after every successful trip I have a moment of melancholy. Not in a guilt ridden self berating way, but just taking a moment to admire the bird/beast whose life I've taken. This I find especially true of woodcock, without fail every time I shoot one I vow that it will be my last, but sure as night follows day when an opportunuty next presents itself I just can't resist. I've lost track of the times over the years that I've walked out to pick up a fox whilst out lamping and spent minutes 'really' looking, appraising and even stroking it, especially if it is an impressive dog-fox in thick winter coat.

 

I do the same with duck, geese and hares. To me this attitude is entirely natural and healthy, though I'm sure that many will disagree.Were not the same sentiments running through stone age man and gave incentive to their artwork? I do not like the way that our sport (that word again) is sometimes portrayed. Videos of rabbits being shot with c/fires accompanied by a soundtrack of maniacal laughter cannot do us anything but harm, surely? anymore than videos of people 'puffing' pigeons at ridiculously short range can?

I feel that the American influence is at work here or maybe 'the times they are a changin' whatever the reason I don't believe that it has any place in the public domain, but that's just me and will probably get my **** shot full of holes for saying as much. In closing all I can say is if/when the day ever comes when I view the magnificent quarry that I pursue as just 'flying targets' and have no more worth in my eyes than a clay, then that is the day that I will give up shooting for good.

 

Regards Remmyman

Nice post - very humbling to read.

 

Thanks

[Gordon R]

I only shoot clays, but have a number of friends who shoot wildlife and enjoy it.

 

I feel uncomfortable with the tone of the original post and the repeated references to Animal Aid. I got the distinct impression that it was patronising.

[WGD]

Do not confuse enjoying shooting a bird or animal with a lack of respect for the quarry.

Edited September 19, 2013 by WGD

[jasper3]

Nice post remmyman, totally get that

[phaedra1106]

Nice post remmyman, totally get that

Agreed, I haven't shot anything living since I was out with my older brother when I was in my early teens (40+ years ago!), having watched him shoot a crow and then finding it still alive and lying there in pain, terrified and dying was enough for me to decide that I never wanted to do that myself.

 

I have no disagreement with anyone who hunts for food or pest control, I just choose not to kill another living creature for "sport".

Edited September 19, 2013 by phaedra1106

[Archie-fox]

I'm sure that at 48yrs old I would be termed an old **** by many on this forum. But after 30odd yrs of shooting 'live stuff' for the table along with 'pest control' I can honestly say that after every successful trip I have a moment of melancholy. Not in a guilt ridden self berating way, but just taking a moment to admire the bird/beast whose life I've taken. This I find especially true of woodcock, without fail every time I shoot one I vow that it will be my last, but sure as night follows day when an opportunuty next presents itself I just can't resist. I've lost track of the times over the years that I've walked out to pick up a fox whilst out lamping and spent minutes 'really' looking, appraising and even stroking it, especially if it is an impressive dog-fox in thick winter coat.

 

I do the same with duck, geese and hares. To me this attitude is entirely natural and healthy, though I'm sure that many will disagree.Were not the same sentiments running through stone age man and gave incentive to their artwork? I do not like the way that our sport (that word again) is sometimes portrayed. Videos of rabbits being shot with c/fires accompanied by a soundtrack of maniacal laughter cannot do us anything but harm, surely? anymore than videos of people 'puffing' pigeons at ridiculously short range can?

I feel that the American influence is at work here or maybe 'the times they are a changin' whatever the reason I don't believe that it has any place in the public domain, but that's just me and will probably get my **** shot full of holes for saying as much. In closing all I can say is if/when the day ever comes when I view the magnificent quarry that I pursue as just 'flying targets' and have no more worth in my eyes than a clay, then that is the day that I will give up shooting for good.

 

Regards Remmyman

 

fantastic post!!!!

[Katzenjammer]

 

 

I feel that the American influence is at work here or maybe 'the times they are a changin' whatever the reason I don't believe that it has any place in the public domain, but that's just me and will probably get my **** shot full of holes for saying as much. In closing all I can say is if/when the day ever comes when I view the magnificent quarry that I pursue as just 'flying targets' and have no more worth in my eyes than a clay, then that is the day that I will give up shooting for good.

 

Regards Remmyman

You seem to take the real American influence as your ethos here? By that I do not mean the white American but rather the native American. That I must applaud and admit to following myself tbh.

[bi9johnny]

Killing is killing.

 

The bacon in my roll this morning didn't volunteer for the job.

 

Is there a distinction between killing a rabbit for pest control, for food or for fun. Not really, dead is dead which ever way.

+1

[JDog]

I have had getting on for 2000 days out shooting in some form or other and I can count on one hand the number of days I have not enjoyed.

 

I have been asked many times about the strong pull I have for shooting and the only sensible reply I can come up with is that shooting to me is an instinct. You either have it or you don't. Certainly I do not consider shooting to be a 'sport', but an activity which I enjoy greatly.

 

Remmyman, you are a wise man with a good way with words and a good feel for shooting. In the same way that you pick up and admire some of the birds you have shot I do it too. I always have and I always will.

[Kes]

Some very good posts empathetic and deeply thought through but I think I also go 'for the occasion'.

Everything about a shooting day is worthwhile, the early morning bacon buttie in a cafe local to the shoot, meeting like-minded friends, the social chit chat on the way, new ground and all the interests and mysteries it will present. The walk and chat, lunchtime, etc. Very little time is spent killing and yet many shooters will pick-up just as easily as shoot. If you are lucky and get a really unusual or difficult shot and make it, then show proper respect for the quarry, its oftentimes enough. Enjoyment for me doesn't just come from the killing, although a day would have less point without it but not much if the other things are there aplenty.

It is perhaps everything taken together. So, is it a sport - I would say no, but it combines a lot of things which individually are sports. Is it just for the killing - no not for me. What would I call it, instinctive enjoyable pastime possibly.

[camokid]

I have had getting on for 2000 days out shooting in some form or other and I can count on one hand the number of days I have not enjoyed.

 

I have been asked many times about the strong pull I have for shooting and the only sensible reply I can come up with is that shooting to me is an instinct. You either have it or you don't. Certainly I do not consider shooting to be a 'sport', but an activity which I enjoy greatly.

 

Remmyman, you are a wise man with a good way with words and a good feel for shooting. In the same way that you pick up and admire some of the birds you have shot I do it too. I always have and I always will.

 

 

 

I have been asked many times about the strong pull I have for shooting and the only sensible reply I can come up with is that shooting to me is an instinct. You either have it or you don't. Certainly I do not consider shooting to be a 'sport', but an activity which I enjoy greatly.

nail on the head!!! its a way of life not a sport if a didn't hunt i really do not no what i would do with my life..it has been in me since a child and gets stronger each year

[flynny]

I shoot clays for sport and game for the table, I like hunting as it gets me out of the house and I have quite a stressful job so it's a good escape...I can't say I enjoy killing but I enjoy hunting and the kill is the end result of a successful hunt...I sort of get what your saying as I watch videos on here of people turning rabbits inside out with high caliber rifles in areas and think why post videos up of that?? Proper shooters/ vermin control know it has to be done but don't feel the need to seek attention or try to "fit" in by posting stuff like that of particularly graphic videos...I only post the odd pic now, I'm sure most people know what a dead fox looks like or a dead rabbit, but if it's a special moment for me it's getting posted..

Bang on +1

 

ATB

 

Flynny

[Muddy Funker]

Some really good posts on this thread, I don't have the eloquence to put together a post that would explain quite how I feel on the subject.

I certainly know that for me the killing is just a small part in a much bigger picture, I also love the preparation, the early morning, the peace and quiet, seeing nature as it's supposed to be seen. There's a massive list of reasons why I enjoy hunting.

And then it comes to the killing part, I don't get any sort of pleasure or buzz from the actual killing of a rabbit for example, I'm happy that it's a good shot and I'm happy that I'll be able to make use out of the meat but I'm not happy about killing something per se, nor am I sad or remorseful if that makes sense?

 

Things were different when I was a teenager, I'll admit that when I was young I'd shoot birds (pigeons) in the garden purely for fun and because I could, bloodthirsty and something I'm not proud of. I'm 37 now and have grown up to have great respect for my environment and everything in it, I wouldn't dream of shooting something I couldn't make use of and realise now I should have left those birds well alone, not just from a moral standpoint but also a legal one.

 

I enjoy that I have the skills and equipment to be able to go out and hunt and gather and make use out of what I shoot, forage ect.

 

For those that do get a buzz out of the kill I have no problem, the process of hunting and killing has been going on for tens of thousands of years and I truly believe it's ingrained in all of us. I know that we don't need these skills any more and for the majority they have been suppressed, but that doesn't mean it's wrong for those that want to rediscover and use these in built traits.

 

There are aspects of hunting that I wouldn't want to take part in but I'd never knock or oppose those that do, we all need to stick together and support each other or one day it may well be banned.

 

An anti will never accept it's not just about the kill but that's life. Let them have their blinkered opinion and we'll just crack on with the things we enjoy doing.

[neil smith]

Being the grandson of a keeper my shooting career started at a very early age, I cannot remember not having a gun at hand, like many of you I shot just about everything growing up, as mentioned by some here I enjoy the being out in the coutryside but not the killing, in fact I realised on several occasions that I would rather watch the quarry than shoot it, so I stopped.

 

However I enjoyed shooting guns & didnt want to stop doing that, after years of having a gun, it felt something was missiing without one.

 

I took up target shooting instead & found an even bigger challenge, it has many of the same elements like planning your next trip ( I shoot abroad every year) preparing your kit & making ammo, & the challenge comes from pitting your skill against an oponent with similar skill & equipment.

 

Dont get me wrong I fully support & understand the shooting way of life as I lived it for many years, but I found a bigger challenge for me personally & a way to keep shooting .

 

So I say too all those here who want to keep shooting but have trouble with the "killing" then there are other options available.

 

N

[Gordon R]

Muddy Funker - very good post.

[rimfire4969]

Some realy good posts on this topic.

 

I find it very difficult to write my own feels as well as others on here without sounding like a ****.

 

I shoot for the pot, pest control and driven shooting . I enjoy being outside in all weathers pitting myself against my quarry, sometimes I win at other times my quarry wins. Does this annoy me, at times yes. Do i enjoy the moment I pull the trigger and take somethings life? No, but do i love to see the high pheasant fold up and plumit to earth or the rabbit drop on the spot? Yes. But without one i would not have the other.

 

So do I enjoy the kill?

Edited September 20, 2013 by rimfire4969

[CharlieT]

 

 

So do I enjoy the kill?

 

Which is exactly why, for those reasons, we all say good shot rather than good kill.

[karpman]

 

Which is exactly why, for those reasons, we all say good shot rather than good kill.

The shot and the kill is one and the same surely. If you didn't intend to kill said target you wouldn't shoot at it.

 

There is a reason whilst vermin hunting isn't a paid job overall and that is because people enjoy doing it. All manner of aspects of it I'm sure but the low down is they enjoy it.

 

Karpman

[CharlieT]

The shot and the kill is one and the same surely. If you didn't intend to kill said target you wouldn't shoot at it.

 

There is a reason whilst vermin hunting isn't a paid job overall and that is because people enjoy doing it. All manner of aspects of it I'm sure but the low down is they enjoy it.

 

Karpman

 

It is indeed and I agree with you entirely.

What I was trying to say is that when we fire and kill our target people say to us "good shot" not good kill.