jef Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 What's the best suggestion to sort a problem where the neighbouring keeper (commercial) cleans out our woods on the march between the two shoots. The guy is notorious and has been caught by several land owners dogging in through woods he doesn't shoot over. He's an arrogant ****** and pleads ignorance when caught in the act. We only have a small shoot with 250 birds, a lot of which make it to the woods on the boundary which used to provide the majority of our sport. The results have been poor for the last couple of years and his dogging in could be (is probably) the reason. The keeper on the other hand runs a commercial shoot over thousands of acres and several farms. Suggestions on a post card................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Get out early and make sure you catch him in the act and have a discussion and keep catching him, then it's down to you the landowner and the police how you proceed. Being me if he keeps it up I would not put birds down next year feed hard and shoot every bird of his that I could and make sure he knows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Al4x probably has it bang on. Unfortunately dunno if an awful lot u can do about it. If ur shoot's in scotland u really don't have any tresspassing laws to use, and it would probably be argued his dogs under close control even when not on a lead, so doubt the police could do anything. And because pheas are classed as wild animals outside pen doubt there will be any stock chasing/worrying laws Possibly having a word with ur neighbouring landowners but they might not either care or have much hold over him if he is paying top dollar for ground as not want to upset him Trail cams might help to catch him at it but i don't know wot good it will do u other than piece off mind. If his shoot is BASC affilated (allthou dunno if they do that with commercial shoots) u can phone Basc and they have some sort of mediation policy to try and sort out disputes between neighbouring affilated shoots The only thing to watch about feeding hard on boundries (esp if he is a big a w **k as he sounds) is, i know a couple off keepers who never liked the wee shoots doing that and had various ways of tampering with there hoppers. Not legal but they did it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Do you get a 40% return, if so then do not worry about it too much. After all it his living he is trying to protect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 What's the best suggestion to sort a problem where the neighbouring keeper (commercial) cleans out our woods on the march between the two shoots. The guy is notorious and has been caught by several land owners dogging in through woods he doesn't shoot over. He's an arrogant ****** and pleads ignorance when caught in the act. We only have a small shoot with 250 birds, a lot of which make it to the woods on the boundary which used to provide the majority of our sport. The results have been poor for the last couple of years and his dogging in could be (is probably) the reason. The keeper on the other hand runs a commercial shoot over thousands of acres and several farms. Suggestions on a post card................. Have a polite but to the point chat then if he does not comply I should do similar back tenfold and worse, he has more to loose and little to gain by your volume of birds. I know others who have done this sort of thing then had their own woods emptied out, its crackers working together you will both gain far more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Indeed, what's good for the goose n all that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulus Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 an eye for an eye pulling birds into woods is just as simple as dogging them out of woods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferretboy111 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Agree with Scolopax, if your shooting 40% or over (I'd bet it's more like 70-100%) I'd maybe rethink. I have neighbours who feed all their boundaries, release 250 pheasants 2 miles away from where they shoot all the pheasants from and they shoot 100%, do no predator control just feed. Of course they say they release birds but it's blatant they are all my birds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Ferretboy and scalpax do make good points and i can totally understand. But wee shoots do have the right too exist next to big ones just got to try and get on with each other. Not all wee shoots that border bigger ones all shoot 70-100% (althou i'm sure some do) but even those that do does not nessacary mean it is ur birds there shooting as the small shoots birds will also not wander as much as all the surrounding woods are already full. Also to shoot a high % of a small number of birds is relatively easier than doing the same with a large number, even 20-50 birds coming over the boundry makes a differencer to a small shoot while a big 1 won't notice it. Think it comes down to not taking the p **s we do 1 shoot a boundry wood next to the neighbouring commercial shoot but i only feed the very far side of it and do not try to pull his birds as not worth it, he's a decent bloke. Lucky if we shoot 10 of his birds a year Infact we get less birds now that the shoot is commercial than we used to when it was a syndicate as he's now feeding them right and knows wot he's doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I can see both sides of the case. As some have said, nothing naffs off a keeper more to see feed hoppers close to his boundary, when the obvious intent is to drag his birds away. I have a small shoot and release some ex layers, and it naffs me off on one of my shoot days to see shooters in neighbouring fields after 'our' birds when they put none down. I would say that they are parasites, and they no doubt they congratulate themselves on 'free' pheasant shooting having done nothing for it........ As usual, it should always be case of balance and common sense, but the latter is often absent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Dog your birds back so there's none of yours around your boundary . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Sounds good but the guy has already said this wood is one of the better drives, may be that is because the wood is warmer and holds better, may be it's because the wood is hilly and naturally lends itself to good quality birds or may be it's because this wood is heavily populated with next doors birds. Either way the keeper is in the wrong, he should be the one putting time in dogging birds back mid summer onwards before they get as far as this wood, end of! Once the birds are over the boundary it's too late. To the op get out dogging in daily before your keeper friend has chance to, bring in the birds from that wood, so they are more central, even better wait out for the keeper and remind him where he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Two shoots local to me have similar problems.The commercial shoot releases 20,000 birds each season and the neighbouring one 3,500,but they are so close to each other that on several drives they are literally driving birds towards each others shoot,and although they have a mutual agreement whereby dogs and pickers up can cross each others boundaries to retrieve downed birds it is an uneasy agreement.They shoot on alternate Saturdays but the commercial shoot also shoots midweek,and the 'keeper has been caught several times on his side of the boundary but with his dogs on the smaller shoots side of the boundary ,driving any birds he can see on the boundary back to his shoot.Makes for some entertainment now and then in the pub! If you really want to pay back the errant 'keeper in your post just stop putting down birds for a season or two but keep putting out your feeders and shooting whatever birds you find on your land.If he complains you could always state that you can't afford to keep buying birds just for him to entice onto his shoot, so you thought you would give it a go and see how he likes it.Agree to put down birds again if he stops doing what he's doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 The big thing for me is generally birds will fly 'home' so all depending on the lie off the land, But if wood is on the boundry i would imagine it would be quite hard to beat/drive them away from ur shoot and over a line off guns, the vast majority will prob break back over beaters heads without standing guns on his ground. Bit different if wood is a bit inside boundry so u have got space to stand ur guns inbetween. Not easy, and something simiar happening to the shoot adjoining mine (not by me i should add) 1 shoot is upsetting all it's neighbours had catchers set all last season in it's boundry woods inc the woods it boundries with a wee shoot trying to get there birds (well away from most off his birds) some folk just don't give a **** If ur a big shoot shooting many days ur birds will wander, even with the best keeper, but i think if neighbours aren't taking mick feeding boundries hard they don't mind it as much Charlie makes a good point but if it's a decent drive for u ucan't really do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 If you are absolutely sure that he is dogging in your woods arrange a meeting with him when others are present. Ask him to desist and tell him clearly that if he does not then you will dog in his woods which presumably have more birds in than yours do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 We have the same problem on our Club shoot where our neighbour has a game crop right against our boundary and at least three fields from any of his woods. Trouble is you cant be there all the time unlkie a full time keeper or farmer in the above instance. In our case the guy is totally shamelessand no amont of argumant or caught in the act so to speak in our boundary wood will ever make the slightest difference to his acts or attitudes. I would try having a word with his employer, might work ar it might put the guys back up even more. Drop me a PM Jef as to where you are. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathysam Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Dog his birds towards you and feed hard and diesel around his feeders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAD1927 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Place aniseed deeper in the wood move the feeders then place sign up that dogs must be on a lead, then when his dogs are off the lead he is technically comiting an offence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpreen Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Can you not disturb his birds the day b4 his shoot if he continually gets low numbers u never know he may take you more seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jef Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 His nearest pen to the wood in question is about 3/4 of a mile away, whilst ours is just the other side of the field. The guy just thinks that every pheasant in the land is his. As for returns, 100% is laughable, 30% nearer the mark. The farm does not lend itself to pheasant shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elby Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 Have you thought about catching him in the act and beating the granny out of him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utectok Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 Oh I though this post would have pictures but it's a different style of dogging in the woods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
955i Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 Is he trespassing, if so get him done. Just remember that this works both ways, birds you shoot will head onto his land and vice-versa so no-one really loses out in the end. They may even end up shooting more birds over to you than you have put down. Had this on a small shoot I was with, big shoot over the way and we regularly took numbers above what we would expect from the number we put down. They used to come on our land flushing birds back over, but they always came back once shots were fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 If you wanted to really annoy him you could always shoot on the same day as his shoot, but give him two or three hours headstart, by which time some of his birds should have made it on to your patch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 (edited) First i'd try and find out if he actually is dogging out ur woods. Possibly birds just b **gered off on there own, really funny year this year (i knw we're well short just due to ammount off food else where) Either get some stealth camera things up or it more old skool, smooth off some muddy patches around wood, say at where u think he's entering any pinch points styles bridges or natural paths and look for foot prints and dog prints, u may find some old biddy walking mutt not him at all! U can tell a lot from folks footprints, if crappy pair of wellies prob not him but if lecheamea's of wotever welly he wears. At release time if anyone else checks the birds and have a different pair of shoes on than normal i usually phone them to check it's there footprints. How a n*l is that I'm assuming shoots in scotland? if so no tresspassing law as such If it turns out to be him, i would not lower urself to his level by dogging sabotaging his shoot. Shooting community is generally very small and u will just get a **** reputation for urself. I would also not try to disrupt his shoot as no matter wot a w ***ker he is it is his job his house, kids etc depend on that job. So while it's out off order and infuriating wot he's doing not worth costing someone there job over it Think i would do everything i could to hold them the now and have a civil word with him. next season i'd probably go and offer to give him a hand beating or odd weekends through summer with rearing/releasing let him shoot foxes over ur boundry if he see's them and u do the same. Far better gettin on with them if possible, but it's not always possible Edited October 24, 2013 by scotslad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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