Gunman Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 According to a mate of mine he was told by several members of the Northumberland Constabulary , that lock knives are illegal . News to me and others . Seems the boys in blue don't actualy have a clue as to the law in this area . Wonder how much else they make up as they go along . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billytheghillie Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I thought they were illegal as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Lock knives are illegal to carry in public, or in your car, but are perfectly legal to use for your job or in the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 that makes all Leathermen illegal then........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet1747 Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Lock knives are illegal to carry in public, or in your car, but are perfectly legal to use for your job or in the field. how do you get them to the job or the fields Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Any locking blade knife with a blade over 3" is not allowed without good reason in a public area. I am sure someone can give you exact law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted December 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 So if I buy a lock knife in my local shop ,walk to the car park and drive home I'm breaking the law ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 So if I buy a lock knife in my local shop ,walk to the car park and drive home I'm breaking the law ? No because you have a good reason to have it in public, you have just bought it and you are taking it to your vehicle to take it home to store it securely. Just don't sit on a seat in the precinct playing with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) So if I buy a lock knife in my local shop ,walk to the car park and drive home I'm breaking the law ? No. You've got to be able to get it home somehow.And you'd be better leaving in it's packaging. If you stopped at Tescos or the pub with it in your pocket, then yes. The law states GOOD REASON. Don't forget most multi-tools have locking blades Edited December 12, 2013 by walshie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Another example of lunatic law making, surely to God the police must be able to distinguish between a hoody scroat carrying a lock knife and a tradesman or fieldsports enthusiast carrying a locking knife with a legitimate reason? I have one in the car all the time and don't give it a seconds thought, it's used for paunching and gralloching so the rather revolting appearance and odour would give anyone with half a functioning brain cell a massive clue as to its purpose. I'm not about to keep putting it in and taking it out as invariably when you start down that road you forget it just when you need it. So it lives in the blood smeared plastic box in the back of the 'fender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy bingo Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 isn't it the law you can carry it in your car provided you cant reach it e.g lock it in the boot, if its in the glove box or door pocket its illegal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted December 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Well gents having done some research I find I am indeed wrong and lock knives are illegal to carry in your pocket as you might carry a Swiss Army knife . A lock knife is classed as "Fixed blade" . Having had the misfortune to have on more than one occasion had a folding knife fold on me when in use ,or miss use , I would have thought that the HSE would have something to say on this .A stupid law brought in by stupid people that will make no difference to "knife crime " what so ever other that making criminals of normal people . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Knife crime is more generally kitchen type knives bought from budget shops, so fixed blade. But then the law makers wouldn't be too popular if they banned those, so instead, it appears, they chose to ban lock knives instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Knife crime is more generally kitchen type knives bought from budget shops, so fixed blade. But then the law makers wouldn't be too popular if they banned those, so instead, it appears, they chose to ban lock knives instead. Spot on Mick but weren't lock knives introduced because of the safety aspects to the user? as other as have said knife crime seems to be carried out with the carving or steak knife from the kitchen drawer. I've had several lock knives in my time and now and then if it had been a foldy I may have lost a finger. Now I think twice before I take my Loewen Messer foldy with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBeaky Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) OK, I'll bite... Criminal Justice Act 1988 Section 139 - Para 1: Subject to subsections 4 and 5 below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence. Para 2: "this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife. (my italics) Para 3: This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of it's blade exceeds 3 inches. Para 4: It shall be a defence... (good reason or lawful authority) Para 5: (examples of good reasons: work, religious reasons, national costume) Section 2 was modified by 2 case law judgements - R vs Harris and R vs Deegan - which ruled that a locking knife i.e. one not readily folded was equivalent to a locking blade, so not covered by the section 2 exemption. The second of these was in the Appeal Court, so unless this one is reversed in the House of Lords, then we are stuck with it. So, to summarise: Non-locking folder, <3" cutting edge = legal to carry without specific reason. Non-locking folder, >3" cutting edge = need a good reason or lawful authority as above Locking folder, any length cutting edge = need a good reason or lawful authority as above Fixed blade, any length cutting edge = need a good reason or lawful authority as above Note that these are all "having with you in a public place" Oh, and anywhere where intent could be contrued, we switch into Offensive Weapon law, and all bets are off! EG your non-locking folder is fine in your pocket, but get frisked after that fight in the pub, and CJA goes out the window and the Off Weap book comes out instead, which is much heavier THEY ARE NOT ILLEGAL TO OWN! Have look here: CLICKY Edited December 12, 2013 by CaptainBeaky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 It isn't illegal to own lock knives; I have several and they are commonly on sale to the general public. The current legislation was brought about on the insistence of the then Home Secretary Michael Howard following a long spate of reported stabbings, but the one which grabbed the medias attention and therefore the attention of the general public, who had ,until this time, been largely indifferent to stabbings which regularly took place, was that of school teacher Philip Lawrence in 1995. Faced with a media driven campaign which led public outrage the government realised they needed to be seen to 'do something'.....it's all so very familiar. So we now have the situation where any law abiding person who needs or uses knives as part of their work has to take care to check belts, pockets and vehicles before nipping down town for a pint of milk, while knifings and stabbings continue to occur on a daily basis. Nothing has changed with the exception that the law abiding, if stopped, now need to show 'good reason'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Lock knives were classed as fixed bladed knives by case law. Harris vs DPP. A lawyer successfully convinced a judge that if a folding knife locked it was in fact a fixed bladed knife and not a folding knife at all. Precedent was set. A higher court could overrule but that's never gonna happen. If you have good reason to carry a lock knife, you may as well carry a big one or a fixed blade. And if you import a lock knife, customs will try in the extreme to get it to flick open, by holding the edge of the blade and flicking the wrist. If it opens, they'll sieze it as a gravity knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Yet you can buy assisted openers legally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Just don't sit on a seat in the precinct playing with it Good advice this, and can be applied in more than one situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 shocked after seeing a program off BBC about glasgow, people hacking each other to death with swords, machette and all sorts of shivs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debaser Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 It isn't illegal to own lock knives; I have several and they are commonly on sale to the general public. The current legislation was brought about on the insistence of the then Home Secretary Michael Howard following a long spate of reported stabbings, but the one which grabbed the medias attention and therefore the attention of the general public, who had ,until this time, been largely indifferent to stabbings which regularly took place, was that of school teacher Philip Lawrence in 1995. Faced with a media driven campaign which led public outrage the government realised they needed to be seen to 'do something'.....it's all so very familiar. So we now have the situation where any law abiding person who needs or uses knives as part of their work has to take care to check belts, pockets and vehicles before nipping down town for a pint of milk, while knifings and stabbings continue to occur on a daily basis. Nothing has changed with the exception that the law abiding, if stopped, now need to show 'good reason'. The law that relates to this subject is sec 139 criminal justice Act 1988. It has nothing to do with Michael Howard. The law was brought in because it's very hard to prove possession of an offensive weapon (sec 1 prevention of crime Act 1953) people were carrying knives as as long as they didn't admit it was for violence they could walk around with impunity. However that aside the most important thing to know about this whole subject is that the defences of good reason and lawful authority are for the defence to prove (on the balance of probability) not the police or CPS, in effect your guilty unless you can convince a judge/magistrate otherwise. However any half decent police officer will know the difference between a wrong 'un and some one who has at leatherman or lock knife for field sports etc. Personally I carry a leather man with a non locking blade and the blade is less than 3 inches so I should be ok. ATB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 The law that relates to this subject is sec 139 criminal justice Act 1988. It has nothing to do with Michael Howard. I stand corrected. Unless I'm mistaken Michael Howard was Home Secretary when the Knives Act 1997 was introduced, as it related to 'combat', 'military' or 'tactical' knives. This is also ineffectual legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Yet you can buy assisted openers legally? I'm pretty sure when one turns up in a court case they will be classed as flick knives. Just not happened yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted December 13, 2013 Report Share Posted December 13, 2013 Hope not, I love my SOG flash II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byjovecarruthers Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 1. Do not bring yourself to the attention of the Police. 2. If you do find yourself subject to the attentions of the Police then stay calm, be polite and if arrested say nothing until you receive legal advice. I used to give these two pieces of advice to soldiers prior to any period of leave. Number 1 negates almost all problems, number 2 is invaluable if one fails to achieve number 1. It should see you right with your locking blades etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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