Close season for pigeon

[pigeon controller]

I will say this only once.

 

It was explained to me by a farmer why we have to shoot pigeons. This concerns the costs involved, one third to plough and prepare the soil, one third to seed and fertilise and the last third is the profit . So if a farmer sees one third of his crop eaten by pigeons he's on a zero profit.

 

Don't shoot the messenger as I'm just quoting what I was told to justify my shooting efforts.

 

If we have any agricultural accounts online they may be able to confirm or deny.

[paul2012]

This is rather odd. I see virtually no pigeons this time of year, come feburary there's loads.

 

If the proposed close season was implemented then i would shoot very few,

[anser2]

A close season for pigeon is at the moment a non starter , breeding all year around makes the timing of a close season difficult and farmers allow us to shoot on their land to protect their crops not for fun so to stop shooting pigeons when they are causing crop damage is not on. However I do keep an open mind on the subject. Until 5 years ago I would shoot 2000 - 3000 most winters in my local area of Norfolk. These days its less than 1000 for the same effort. It would be good to see the results of how many forum members shoot over the years to see if there is any trend. This year its standing around 14,000 less than half of the number a few years ago.

[Catamong]

A close season for pigeon is at the moment a non starter , breeding all year around makes the timing of a close season difficult and farmers allow us to shoot on their land to protect their crops not for fun so to stop shooting pigeons when they are causing crop damage is not on. However I do keep an open mind on the subject. Until 5 years ago I would shoot 2000 - 3000 most winters in my local area of Norfolk. These days its less than 1000 for the same effort. It would be good to see the results of how many forum members shoot over the years to see if there is any trend. This year its standing around 14,000 less than half of the number a few years ago.

 

Yes, an interesting observation from somebody who knows a fair bit about shooting pigeons.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this time last year the numbers of Pigeons shot by PW members was around 20 thou..??

 

This year it's at around 14 thou, I'm obviously not the only one who's shooting fewer birds..?

 

I wonder if this trend will continue throughout 2014, I would say that notwithstanding the fact that the birds are pre-occupied with feeding in the woods this Winter, there are still fewer birds generally around than in previous years.

 

Cat.

[motty]

 

Yes, an interesting observation from somebody who knows a fair bit about shooting pigeons.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this time last year the numbers of Pigeons shot by PW members was around 20 thou..??

 

This year it's at around 14 thou, I'm obviously not the only one who's shooting fewer birds..?

 

I wonder if this trend will continue throughout 2014, I would say that notwithstanding the fact that the birds are pre-occupied with feeding in the woods this Winter, there are still fewer birds generally around than in previous years.

 

Cat.,

I think the PW tally being lower has more to do with some of the people not posting anymore. The likes of Topgunners, for example, would usually add a few thousand.

My personal tally remains roughly the same most years - some years slightly better due to a good rotation etc. I maintain around 2000 - 3000 a year.

[JDog]

There will be some who regulary shoot decent numbers who never record their totals. Topgunners are a good example. There will be others like the shooters from Manchester who posted only once I believe and who were pictured with a bag of 220. I doubt that it was their only outing of the year. Many people will feel that putting up totals for themselves is vainglorious or embarrassing and will not do it. I am not even sure if our Lord and Master PC has posted his score for 2013 yet. That will make a difference if he has not.

 

I have shot just under 3000 pigeons per year for the last goodness knows how many years. Last year was boosted by some good days on spring drilled beans then some superlative days on spring rape. Without those two crops on the same estate my totals would be down.

 

However I do believe that pigeons will return to their traditional spring and summer feeding areas in some numbers and all this despondency at the lack of shooting will be forgotten.

Edited January 1, 2014 by JDog

[Kes]

The OP put up the first post and then defended himself.

This is not my idea of a debate,

I wonder why he raised the question since, if he was a naturalist, he would know pigeons were breeding last month.

Most shooters, as naturalists, watch and understand their quarry - as has been said, pigeons are opportunist breeders - food and relative warmth and they breed.

If your approach dictates you stop shooting for a period and believe the birds are exclusively breeding for that period, fine - if it helps you,

I would expect such a person to check and not shoot rabbits whilst breeding etc.

I dont think Mr Bunnage does that - I could be wrong.

[timmytree]

An interesting but also illuminating thread!

Bunnage got jumped on because he posed a question which goes against the feelings of many people on here which is a shame, free speech and thought should provoke debate not vitriole.

Woodpigeons may or may not be increasing, if they are going up in numbers then control has to be in place but we should be careful how we justify our sport. As an example, 1 farm I shoot on only allows me to deter birds from a standing crop, the farmers view being that once the crop is cut he is happy for the birds to have the stubble because they'll then leave other fields alone. Decoying fields of peas, beans, rape or brassicas may be protecting crop but decoying an empty field may be seen by some as shooting for sport, not pest control.

No sensible shooter wants to see any species wiped out but it can and has happened in the past through ignorance, just google for information on the passenger pigeon, once the most numerous bird in the world, the last one was shot in 1913 I think by a kid with a BB gun.

I may not agree with some of the points raised but every person has a right to their views as I do mine, we may not agree but since no one can be proved right or wrong there's no need to fall out over it.

Happy New Year everyone on PW, roll on the summer!

Regards

Tim

[kitchrat]

A close season for pigeon is at the moment a non starter , breeding all year around makes the timing of a close season difficult and farmers allow us to shoot on their land to protect their crops not for fun so to stop shooting pigeons when they are causing crop damage is not on. However I do keep an open mind on the subject. Until 5 years ago I would shoot 2000 - 3000 most winters in my local area of Norfolk. These days its less than 1000 for the same effort. It would be good to see the results of how many forum members shoot over the years to see if there is any trend. This year its standing around 14,000 less than half of the number a few years ago.

I'm finding it harder and harder to get a good bag, not usually because of a lack of birds but because they out-smart me! Magnet aware, less confident when decoying etc etc

Numbers ARE low here right now but I'm sure that's only temporary (I hope!!)

[kitchrat]

An interesting but also illuminating thread!

Bunnage got jumped on because he posed a question which goes against the feelings of many people on here which is a shame, free speech and thought should provoke debate not vitriole.

Woodpigeons may or may not be increasing, if they are going up in numbers then control has to be in place but we should be careful how we justify our sport. As an example, 1 farm I shoot on only allows me to deter birds from a standing crop, the farmers view being that once the crop is cut he is happy for the birds to have the stubble because they'll then leave other fields alone. Decoying fields of peas, beans, rape or brassicas may be protecting crop but decoying an empty field may be seen by some as shooting for sport, not pest control.

No sensible shooter wants to see any species wiped out but it can and has happened in the past through ignorance, just google for information on the passenger pigeon, once the most numerous bird in the world, the last one was shot in 1913 I think by a kid with a BB gun.

I may not agree with some of the points raised but every person has a right to their views as I do mine, we may not agree but since no one can be proved right or wrong there's no need to fall out over it.

Happy New Year everyone on PW, roll on the summer!

Regards

Tim

Your farmer should be careful, letting birds feed on his farm will make them get accustomed to feeding there and it will become a favorite haunt. They will breed well and when a crop is edible they will murder it! Still, that in itself could enhance your "sport", which is why we all do it, if we are honest. If pigeon control;was not a challenge and you could, say, just walk up to them and hit them with a stick, none of us would do it!!

[fengreg]

Nicely put Timmytree.

 

I get the impression that that was the initial point he put up for discussion, do we want to see another bird disappear from the british countryside in any numbers?

After all we,ve lost so much already.

[paul2012]

Nicely put Timmytree.

 

I get the impression that that was the initial point he put up for discussion, do we want to see another bird disappear from the british countryside in any numbers?

After all we,ve lost so much already.

That's a fair point you make, but in sure no or very little shooters want to completely eradicate the pigeon population but rather control it.

 

I think it would take alot to eradicate them since they breed so readily and prolifcally

[timmytree]

@kitchrat.

Yes we all do it for the sport but under the guise of pest control under the terms of the GL. It COULD be argued that my farmers stance of leaving stubble for the birds and only protecting standing crop is how the law should be interpreted, after all we don't see farmers putting scarecrows and gasguns on stubble do we?

I do shoot stubble on other farms with no qualms but I respect the views of the 1st farmer and what he sees as his interpretation of the law, as long as I continue to do as he asks I'm in the clear and will have that land to shoot on along with my guests.

 

@ fengreg.

Thanks, sometimes I think we are all guilty of being blinkered with regards to the situation, it's easy to label a bird or animal as a pest, shooting has it's extremists as does the anti shooting and bloodsports lobby, what we need to do is find a middle ground where the majority agree and the extremists don't ruin it for everyone. If that means sensible discussion and a bit of give and take I'm all for it. Abuse from shooters towards people who have a different outlook will just alienate more and more people.

Regards

Tim

[jimbo86]

Cant beleive that the pigeon is under threat of extiction! Or even any chance of it in the future. Not like it is only native to our little islands either, plenty all over the world! Just has peaks and troughs like any natural population.

 

I can understand the points made about only protecting standing crop, but there are a lot of very good reasons pigeons are on the general licence.

The main point being that pigeons will damage crops all year round. Even if you think about the different times of drilling and harvest around the country for all the different types of crops - maize this year was not cut until late november around here. I farm in Hampshire and we often drill our winter rape when there are still plenty of standing crops in our area, long before crops are harvested up north or in scotland.

 

Also, why would it not be considered pest control/crop protection if shooting on stubbles? Being able to shoot all year round is the point, that you can keep numbers down all the time. It is as important to me to shoot pigeons when it is stubble and just before it is drilled with next years crop, of which they could easily destroy whole fields in a day like they were last year. I get better bags in the summer, the days are longer and the weather is better for decoying, therefore greater efficiancy which is important to any business.

 

Close seasons are for breeding periods of the year, which would allow a natural increase in numbers. As a farmer who suffered huge damage and huge costs last winter on gas-guns, gas, scarecrows, rope bangers, fuel, cartridges and not to mention a lot of time, a general increase in the population numbers could be extremely damaging if not fatal to my business. No product = major losses.

 

I could go on...

Edited January 1, 2014 by jimbo86

[Therealchucknorris]

There obviously has to be a middle ground and with nature appearing to do a part of the job of controlling the pigeons this year we've not had to work as hard as previously perhaps (some shooters excluded). I can only add that I haven't seen as many around here as in previous years but as a non-regular pigeon shooter I haven't been keeping a tally.

 

I think this board is a great focal point for all things shooting and hunting but I think it's a shame that what could be a sensible debate can easily unravel into personal attacks and posts that add sod all to the value of the thread.

 

There have been a couple of threads recently that I've ended up scooting over because too many of the posts bear little relevance to the debate in hand. In my opinion this doesn't tend to offer a good balance with people less willing to air their opinions and just leads to pre-judging the type of responses and perhaps stifles what could have been a good thread.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Therealchucknorris

[marshy pete]

I will say this only once.

 

It was explained to me by a farmer why we have to shoot pigeons. This concerns the costs involved, one third to plough and prepare the soil, one third to seed and fertilise and the last third is the profit . So if a farmer sees one third of his crop eaten by pigeons he's on a zero profit.

 

Don't shoot the messenger as I'm just quoting what I was told to justify my shooting efforts.

 

If we have any agricultural accounts online they may be able to confirm or deny.

This is spot on, I grow a fair amount of peas and pigeons can do a huge amount of damage quickly if not controlled...if I'm busy it's always a relief to hear our shooters popping away.

It is a service and all the pea growers I know are grateful:)

[Fisheruk]

 

I agree. I reckon my mum would love it. On that note Grey Squirrel killing should be made compulsory too.

+1

[flynny]

There will be some who regulary shoot decent numbers who never record their totals. Topgunners are a good example. There will be others like the shooters from Manchester who posted only once I believe and who were pictured with a bag of 220. I doubt that it was their only outing of the year. Many people will feel that putting up totals for themselves is vainglorious or embarrassing and will not do it. I am not even sure if our Lord and Master PC has posted his score for 2013 yet. That will make a difference if he has not.

 

I have shot just under 3000 pigeons per year for the last goodness knows how many years. Last year was boosted by some good days on spring drilled beans then some superlative days on spring rape. Without those two crops on the same estate my totals would be down.

 

However I do believe that pigeons will return to their traditional spring and summer feeding areas in some numbers and all this despondency at the lack of shooting will be forgotten.

Quite true JD

 

Me, mark the hat and a few other blokes I know from Manchester, very rarely put our pics up of our bags,( it's a pita to add pics)

 

Maybe we should!!!!!!!! If that was the case you could proberbly add at least 6000 to the PW tally,

 

Note to self for the new year, input bag numbers

 

I've shot 67 on the last 2 roost shoots!,,,,,

 

Atb

 

Flynny

[motty]

An interesting but also illuminating thread!

Bunnage got jumped on because he posed a question which goes against the feelings of many people on here which is a shame, free speech and thought should provoke debate not vitriole.

Woodpigeons may or may not be increasing, if they are going up in numbers then control has to be in place but we should be careful how we justify our sport. As an example, 1 farm I shoot on only allows me to deter birds from a standing crop, the farmers view being that once the crop is cut he is happy for the birds to have the stubble because they'll then leave other fields alone. Decoying fields of peas, beans, rape or brassicas may be protecting crop but decoying an empty field may be seen by some as shooting for sport, not pest control.

No sensible shooter wants to see any species wiped out but it can and has happened in the past through ignorance, just google for information on the passenger pigeon, once the most numerous bird in the world, the last one was shot in 1913 I think by a kid with a BB gun.

I may not agree with some of the points raised but every person has a right to their views as I do mine, we may not agree but since no one can be proved right or wrong there's no need to fall out over it.

Happy New Year everyone on PW, roll on the summer!

Regards

Tim

Shooting on stubbles is a massive part of pigeon control. Two years ago I shot over 800 pigeons in 4 visits to a barley stubble in Oct/Nov. If I hadn't shot them and there had been a rape field next door, where do you think the pigeons would have likely turned up next? Some farmers have strange logic. A dead pigeon eats no more crops.

Nicely put Timmytree.

 

I get the impression that that was the initial point he put up for discussion, do we want to see another bird disappear from the british countryside in any numbers?

After all we,ve lost so much already.

The Op's point isn't relevant as the pigeon population in this country is HUGE.

[Guest stevo]

here you go have a read , the good old woodie is on the up ! just cos you cant shoot them doesn't mean there not about ..... TRY HARDER haha

 

report was posted up on the 18/12/2013

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/267556/agindicator-de5-18dec13.pdf

Edited January 1, 2014 by stevo

[timmytree]

This is spot on, I grow a fair amount of peas and pigeons can do a huge amount of damage quickly if not controlled...if I'm busy it's always a relief to hear our shooters popping away.

It is a service and all the pea growers I know are grateful:)

I wouldn't disagree with you, but as a farmer would you rather have your shooters protecting your peas and beans or shooting pigeons that are cleaning up the stubble? The birds will naturally go for easier and safer pickings. The terms of the GL are quite plain, even though the bird is on the pest list it has some protection by law, part of that is alternative methods of crop protection should have been considered or tried first. Any lawyer could run rings around us decoying and shooting over stubble particularly in areas where there are no other crops.

Pigeons may be increasing at the moment, I hope they will always be around in enough numbers to provide us with opportunities for shooting but maybe the threat to our sport won't come from lack of birds but more directly as a result of the attitude of some shooters?

[sitsinhedges]

I wouldn't disagree with you, but as a farmer would you rather have your shooters protecting your peas and beans or shooting pigeons that are cleaning up the stubble? The birds will naturally go for easier and safer pickings. The terms of the GL are quite plain, even though the bird is on the pest list it has some protection by law, part of that is alternative methods of crop protection should have been considered or tried first. Any lawyer could run rings around us decoying and shooting over stubble particularly in areas where there are no other crops.

Pigeons may be increasing at the moment, I hope they will always be around in enough numbers to provide us with opportunities for shooting but maybe the threat to our sport won't come from lack of birds but more directly as a result of the attitude of some shooters?

 

The point is that you give the pigeons a haircut when the opportunity arises. It's no good complaining that they're decimating your winter rape if you've let them be up until then and why should shooters protect your winter crops if they don't at least get the payback of a decent bit of sport when the fields have been cut? As already stated, if the numbers did start to drop people would soon get bored sitting in empty fields so the shooting would stop anyway.

 

I'm not sure my farmers or I for that matter would want dozens of shot pigeons being dropped into a standing crop to rot unless it's absolutely necessary either.

Edited January 1, 2014 by sitsinhedges

[colin lad]

I will say this only once.

 

It was explained to me by a farmer why we have to shoot pigeons. This concerns the costs involved, one third to plough and prepare the soil, one third to seed and fertilise and the last third is the profit . So if a farmer sees one third of his crop eaten by pigeons he's on a zero profit.

 

Don't shoot the messenger as I'm just quoting what I was told to justify my shooting efforts.

 

If we have any agricultural accounts online they may be able to confirm or deny.

i work for a farmer every day whether the percentages are right a third of each or not the idea of what your farmer is saying is spot on we are mainly arable and would love to see pigeon numbers kept under control

 

colin

[timmytree]

i work for a farmer every day whether the percentages are right a third of each or not the idea of what your farmer is saying is spot on we are mainly arable and would love to see pigeon numbers kept under control

 

colin

Control yes, protection of crops yes!

Saying we are shooting for sport is completely against the GL concerning woodpigeons isn't it?

Anyway, enough playing Devils Advocate for me, I've made my main point which is there is absolutely no need to descend into insults and namecalling because someone expresses a view at variance with others. I think we can all agree on that.

Regards

Tim

[coatesy75]

Control yes, protection of crops yes!

Saying we are shooting for sport is completely against the GL concerning woodpigeons isn't it?

Anyway, enough playing Devils Advocate for me, I've made my main point which is there is absolutely no need to descend into insults and namecalling because someone expresses a view at variance with others. I think we can all agree on that.

Regards

Tim

+1