SCOTLAND

[grrclark]

is it just a 50% + vote that is needed?

 

if it is marginal, and it will be, then it can be nothing but extremely divisive

 

independence granted or declined on the basis of a few thousand votes, maybe a few hundred, I do not think that would be very satisfactory to anyone.

 

The more I think about it democracy is very over rated

 

I cannot think of it as anything but mob rule under another name.

 

Yes, it is a simple majority of those who vote.

 

It is already divisive and I think it is going to get a whole lot worse. There have already been accusations of secret service involvement in the campaign on behalf of No, if it is a No vote and it is very close then I think it will really kick off. I can see violence if it is a No vote and it is very close.

[grrclark]

As I understand it, this vote is for the Scots to say yes or no to impendance. If they vote yes there are many hurdles to cross before it actually happens and it won't be in Salmond's life time. It would take years to eventually happen if at all.

 

Why is this is not explained in the press?

 

The Yes campaign have stated it will be concluded in 18 months and this is what the Yes supporters believe. Anything else is just dismissed as scaremongering and lies from Westminster.

 

It is really quite sad that honest discussion and debate has been in the minority, it is tabloid politics at it's very best. The No campaign has largely been challenging the promises of the Yes side, so it is perceived as being negative and designed to scare people, if it doesn't suit the Yes agenda it is dismissed.

 

Although I am admittedly partisan in wanting a No vote, watching some of the Yes campaign unfold has been quite scary, fascism lurks just below the surface. Not necessarily from the official Yes camp, but the real hardcore nationalists are sinister and there is a lot of them and I can see nothing being done to contain that.

[Sprackles]

I cannot for the life of me understand what independence they envisage when Eck wants to sell his soul to the EU once free from the rest of the UK.

[grrclark]

I cannot for the life of me understand what independence they envisage when Eck wants to sell his soul to the EU once free from the rest of the UK.

 

 

It is worse than that, Eck is quite simply stating that there will be a fiscal union with the rest of the UK, so despite claiming independence the main fiscal levers will be controlled by the BoE and then there is the EU interference on top of that. Not independence in my book.

 

Try and argue that point and you are shouted down as being a traitor, a puppet of 'wastemonster' and an idiot.

 

I will be delighted when the votes are cast, we have endured 30 months of soundbites and rhetoric, at least from September 19th we will have a slightly different theme.

[wildfowler.250]

If it's tight as said there could well be trouble!

[figgy]

Wonder if it will ****** up the Rugby tournaments, Scotish Shire going it alone if it happens.

 

As for the rest of it the numbers have never stacked up financially.

 

Another poster hit the nail on the head that if it all goes wrong the people will be the ones to suffer not the Politicians

 

Figgy

[Gordon R]

I am totally unclear as to why "trouble" would follow any close result.

 

The rest of the UK have to accept the ballot box, or do some only accept it if the vote goes their way.

[Jega]

I caught a T.V. interview the other morning with a ship yard worker going to work .

Reporter "Good morning sir ,can i ask which way your likely to vote in the upcoming referendum ?"

Worker " Well young man its like this you see,it doesnt matter one way or the other to me "

Reporter " Why not sir "

Worker "Which ever way it goes son ,i'll still be getting up at 6.00a.m. the next morning to go to that **** hole of a ship yard ,and some ****** will be taking about a third of my wages the next week for bloody taxes "

[grrclark]

I am totally unclear as to why "trouble" would follow any close result.

 

The rest of the UK have to accept the ballot box, or do some only accept it if the vote goes their way.

 

In this case Gordon I fear it might be that way. If it is a Yes vote then there will be grumping and naysaying, but that's all. If it is a No vote I think that there will be a much stronger reaction. The trouble will be within Scotland.

 

There is a hardcore element of nationalists in Scotland, there always has been, but this campaign has almost given that fuel and it really is quite ugly. I think so many people have invested so much emotion into this campaign and their fervent hope of a Yes vote that if it goes against them that emotion will spill over.

 

I'm not suggesting it would get to the extremes of Northern Ireland or anything, but if you think back to the Poll Tax protests in Scotland that turned ugly, this would be much stronger.

 

The campaign has stirred up a huge amount of bitterness and resentment and in the case of a No vote where does that emotion go?

 

Polling stations will have additional policing and security for fear of voter intimidation, that has already been stated. It is stereotyping a bit, but broadly the areas where there is a hardcore Yes support does also tend to be the areas more traditionally associated with trouble and difficulties.

 

The No side has it's share of dumplings too and there will be a lot of niggle.

[Zapp]

I read an interesting article a while back - cant remember where, which was about how by asking the question via a referendum about the future of the union, it could ultimately spell its end irrespective of whether Scotland says no or not.

 

It argued that along with bringing forward Welsh calls for a similar vote, it had also fostered resentment among the English, and that sooner or later the other parts of the Union may demand their say. The attitude among a lot of English folk toward the Scots has undoubtedly hardened over the last decade or so. I can remember clearly that almost everyone this side of the border would get behind the Scots national sports teams if they were playing anyone except England, whereas now we seem to have adopted the Scots practise of supporting whoever they oppose.

 

It's sad to see, partly because my Dad is a Scot and my Mum English, but I think a lot of people down here are sick of rhetoric loaded with hostility and resentment being constantly aimed at them. There is a definite feeling that things have changed irrevocably in the relationship between the populace of England and Scotland.

[Gordon R]

Zapp - fair point. If Scotland go their own way, why should England, Northern Ireland and Wales not have the same?

 

There will still only be the same number of taxpayers, but there will be a whole shedload of extra bureaucrats to help spend the money.

[grrclark]

I think that is the case too Zapp.

 

I am a proud and patriotic Scotsman because of the positive achievements of Scotland and it's people over the years, there are brilliant scientists, engineers, economists, artists, authors, etc over the generations that have helped to shape Scottish culture. The landscape in places is stunning and some of the people do have a real genuine warmth and generosity of spirit, there is a lot to be proud of, we have punched above our weight.

 

Sadly so many in Scotland are not content with that, they have to carry a chip on their shoulder about how they have been denied or kept down at heel, even if it is nonsense. It is almost in the Scottish psyche that we have to be the underdog and have to have someone or something to fight.

 

I enjoy the banter and rivalry between Scotland and England, but in my experience it has always been a sporting rivalry and that is OK.

 

This campaign has brought real hostility and resentment right to the surface and I am not surprised at the reaction of the English to it, I would be the same.

 

There have always been dafties on both sides that can't see past flag waving jingoism, but this is very different.

 

The rhetoric of the Yes side is very much that the English have robbed Scotland and kept us down at heel, the belief amongst so many of the Yes side is that England ride high at our expense. I have to say that attitude mostly pervades within the people who have never achieved anything for themselves, but instead of considering how they could have done better they look towards others and say it's your fault, you denied me.

 

They also hold the same attitude to those who are voting No, they are all 'tory scum' lining their own pockets denying the poor and the vulnerable.

 

I hope that it is a No vote and that it does shake up government in this country, I think England should have devolution too and that the central government is shrunk considerably. A real reform of the public offices of the UK is long overdue.

[Scully]

I read an interesting article a while back - cant remember where, which was about how by asking the question via a referendum about the future of the union, it could ultimately spell its end irrespective of whether Scotland says no or not.

 

It argued that along with bringing forward Welsh calls for a similar vote, it had also fostered resentment among the English to the surface, and that sooner or later the other parts of the Union may demand their say. The attitude among a lot of English folk toward the Scots has undoubtedly hardened over the last decade or so. I can remember clearly that almost everyone this side of the border would get behind the Scots national sports teams if they were playing anyone except England, whereas now we seem to have adopted the Scots practise of supporting whoever they oppose.

 

It's sad to see, partly because my Dad is a Scot and my Mum English, but I think a lot of people down here are sick of rhetoric loaded with hostility and resentment being constantly aimed at them. There is a definite feeling that things have changed irrevocably in the relationship between the populace of England and Scotland.

Couldn't agree more. In our local pub, in my youth, we always supported Scotland, Ireland and Wales in either football or rugby, but found especially the Scots to be very firmly on the side of any team opposing England, which we always found rather odd and a little irksome. While working in Scotland , which I've done over quite a few years, we were made to feel extremely unwelcome in a pub in Prestonpans, and in Musselburgh one weekend were very surprised to find a pub was holding an 'anti English day' (much to the embarrassment of a good mate who was from Girvan) and during the European championships while we were in either Tranent or Haddington (long time ago) there was a 'any team but England' slogan on a banner across all the TV's in the bar! There are quite a few instances but I'm at work on Monday.

That's some chip to have been carrying for such a long time...personally I blame Mel Gibson.

I think it's a great shame; one of my best mates was a Scot, and I like the country.

[Gordon R]

I have very, very many brilliant nights out in Glasgow - watching both English and Scottish football teams. I might be in a minority, but the people I went with were genuine football fans. It mattered not whether it was Celtic or Rangers playing in Europe or one of the top English sides.

 

I didn't experience any anti-English feeling. That said - my last visit was 4 years ago - attitudes might have changed.

[crowdie2013]

Off you go then. All you have to do is tick the box that says 'yes'. Just remember the Glasgow airport bombing of 2007 and don't come crying when you want support in future.

 

That's one bonus of many

we didn't need support - we had our bagge handler John `Smeato` Smeaton - who single handedly "banjoed the bams" - LEGEND

[Jim_gsxr1000]

It's a royal pain that this has all come about, I'm a firm no, however there are plenty who are voting yes :( and it's everywhere up here!

[crowdie2013]

Its all very ironic really we or a lot of us want to get out of the EU as we do not like other people telling us what we can or cannot do yet we do the same to the Scottish people I would like to see a more federal system where each country England Scotland Wales and NI has control of most things that goes on in peoples daily life health education etc then we would have a small government to deal with the big stuff defence banking etc etc.

That's what the Scottish government wanted to be a referendum question ie Devo Max but Westminster would only agree to a straight yes or no question. The bottom line, is its not a vote for wee eck salmond or the SNP but a vote so that we in Scotland cab be governed in our own country. Lets face it in England, unless your in the south east, your as well being in a foreign country as Westminster doesn't give a flying ****.

[islandgun]

we didn't need support - we had our bagge handler John `Smeato` Smeaton - who single handedly "banjoed the bams" - LEGEND

[Scully]

we didn't need support - we had our bagge handler John `Smeato` Smeaton - who single handedly "banjoed the bams" - LEGEND

I remember it well. We were having breakfast in a hotel in Musselburgh and the local lady who was serving us said; " Aye, only a Scot wid think tae punch a burning man"! Brilliant!

[Blackpowder]

I cannot for the life of me understand what independence they envisage when Eck wants to sell his soul to the EU once free from the rest of the UK.

 

Add me to that one.

 

Blackpowder

It's a royal pain that this has all come about, I'm a firm no, however there are plenty who are voting yes :( and it's everywhere up here!

Jim loads of Yes signs here in the south east but I seldom encounter anyone who is in that camp.

 

Blackpowder

[crowdie2013]

Add me to that one.

 

Blackpowder

Jim loads of Yes signs here in the south east but I seldom encounter anyone who is in that camp.

 

Blackpowder

Im in the south west of Scotland and the majority of friends/colleagues etc are firmly voting YES, however many of the farms have `No Thanks` signs up so its hard to gauge which way it will go. I would agree that whatever way it go`s there will be a split that will take along time to heal...........

Edited September 6, 2014 by crowdie2013

[islandgun]

proud islanders, native gadhlig speakers, fiercely independent, low tolerance of fools, crofters/fishermen I respect here, are proud to be British , wherever this goes that is a simple fact, deal with it

[Pushkin]

Aye there are a lot of unhappy folks up here as regards who votes what and the nearer to the 18th the unhappier everyone is getting. North east Fife the farms all have no or better together signs up and every now and again you see a yes sign. That area is a strong farming area that used to be very Liberal and steadily got more and more conservative. Moving into the industrial areas it was mostly Labour who got the votes but I think they became very disenfranchised with many voters who moved to SNP.. If it is a Yes vote, Labour will be out in Britain for many a year to come - why do you think they are pushing so hard for the No vote? They really do need the Labour MPs from Scotland to be in with a chance in Westminster cos in England and Wales they don't have enough MPS to win as a government. Just about laughed my socks off this morning when I saw in the paper that Brown was wanting to be in the forefront of ensuring that if it is a no vote that Scotland get's even more decision making powers of its own - after the total mess he got us into when he was chancellor and then Prime minister? I hope that if it is a Yes vote - you folks will still blather to us and extract the urine?

 

All the best folks

 

Pushkin B)

[Mark L]

I live in lanarkshire now but originally from Ayrshire ,I m very much a yes as well as all my family and work mates, until about a month ago there was a lot more no votes from people I know now they are mostly all yes!!

 

I know loads of people who have went from no to yes but not one single person to go the other way??

 

The government is bad now so it can't get much worse time we had a change !!

[AVB]

I live in lanarkshire now but originally from Ayrshire ,I m very much a yes as well as all my family and work mates, until about a month ago there was a lot more no votes from people I know now they are mostly all yes!!

I know loads of people who have went from no to yes but not one single person to go the other way??

The government is bad now so it can't get much worse time we had a change !!

But you are not voting for a new government you will be effectively be voting for a new country. Nobody really knows what the effect of a yes vote will be but I predict it will a disaster for Scotland.