David BASC Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 BASC welcomes evidence-based firearms fees proposals Government proposals to increase the fee for the grant of a shotgun certificate from £50 to £79.50 with proportionate increases in other licensing fees have been welcomed as fair by the UK’s largest shooting organisation, the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC). If agreed these will be the first increases in fees for 13 years. The proposals are contained in a consultation published today and originated in the work of a Home Office working group which included BASC, the British Shooting Sports Council and the police. The fee for a shotgun renewal would rise to £49, for the grant of a firearm certificate to £88 and for renewal of firearms certificates to £62. Variations on firearms certificates would be reduced to £20. Coterminous certificates, where both shotgun and firearm certificates are dealt with at the same time would be £90 and then £65 on renewal. Initial police proposals were for a rise in shotgun certificate fees from £50 to £109. BASC rejected this and asked for the component parts of the licensing system to be fully costed and examined in accordance with the principles of better regulation and Treasury guidelines and taking into account the police move to e-commerce for firearms licensing. BASC chairman Alan Jarrett said: “We welcome the government’s initiative to involve stakeholders and do the job properly. Those who shoot can have confidence that they are paying a fair price for their certificate which has been decided after a rigorous process founded on solid evidence. We hope to see this proposal implemented after the consultation. I would urge everyone who shoots to make their views known in the Home Office online consultation.” BASC chief executive Richard Ali said: “I congratulate the Home Office for ensuring that the full process complied with Treasury guidelines and with the principles of better regulation introduced under the last government and built on by this.” Geoffrey Clifton-Brown MP. Chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Shooting and Conservation, who worked closely with the Home Office on this issue, said: “I believe this is a good result for all sections of the shooting community. It provides a fair basis for fee levels in the future. Under these proposals the police are committed to achieving a cost-effective and consistent service across 42 constabularies. This is a good example of the All-Party Group working with BASC and the other shooting organisations, the police and the Home Office to produce an acceptable result and one which protects the shooting community for the future.” The consultation can be viewed here: http://bit.ly/1pnp6IM Please take part in the consultation - we have 4 weeks until it closes David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Sounds very positive David, thanks for bringing it to our attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) Thanks for posting this David, I had just read an article about this in the Shooting Times online. I think it was inevitable that the fees would have to increase and the proposals do look to be fair and proportionate. Interesting that some things have reduced in cost too. I have not read the consultation paper yet, but anything in there about service level agreements for the length of time to process applications, etc? Edited November 27, 2014 by grrclark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 i see this as a fair increase, and echo the above statement about it being nice to see some things come down in price. well done BASC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Thanks all, Yes significant part of this was the fact the BASC kept pressure on the police to increase their efficiency and fairness of the whole system. No point paying more for an inefficient service. I don't know yet whether three will be any service level agreements, but I think there should be. Its important to note that this week Labour have again stated that they want to put fees up to over £200!! This is our opportunity to keep fees at a fair level - so please respond to the consultation and get everyone else to! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 It would appear that Labour do not want to get elected! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Good to see the old school maths system still gets results - show you're working out! Nice they didn't get away with made up figures for licensing, nice one David et al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetter Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Looks fair to me nice to see some things going in the opposite direction as well such as variations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 (edited) H.O. consultation is here, http://www.homeofficesurveys.homeoffice.gov.uk/s/130985RLRQD Variation fee is shown as £21 not £20 so still cheaper Edited November 27, 2014 by phaedra1106 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I can live with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Clarke Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Variation fee is shown as £21 not £20 so still cheaper Appears to be a discrepancy in the HO figures - £20 mentioned in the full consultation. Well spotted - I will bring it to the attention of the HO Thanks, Simon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Clarke Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Home Office now looking to correct the discrepancy : straight from Pigeon Watch to the Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I've had a look through, support the proposals, the only suggestion I've made is that they might want to look at reviewing fees less often. I imagine the admin of reviewing fees annually is considerable, have suggested 5 yearly reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Well done BASC. Seems a fair and proportionate increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Clarke Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Variation fee proposal has now been corrected from £21 to £20 in the short consultation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Seems good news, thanks David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew f Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Variation fee could drop a bit more I think apart from that seems fair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 also the variation will be changing from one for one to like for like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta06 Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Thanks all, Yes significant part of this was the fact the BASC kept pressure on the police to increase their efficiency and fairness of the whole system. No point paying more for an inefficient service. I don't know yet whether three will be any service level agreements, but I think there should be. Its important to note that this week Labour have again stated that they want to put fees up to over £200!! This is our opportunity to keep fees at a fair level - so please respond to the consultation and get everyone else to! David If Labour DO get into power, is there any reason they cannot hike up the price anyway? Thay do like riding roughshod over outdoor pursuits - even stooping so low as invoking the Parliament Act!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew f Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 also the variation will be changing from one for one to like for like So that means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Sounds a fair result. It had to go up at some time and maybe this will take the wind out of the sails of those who wanted a far steeper rise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 also the variation will be changing from one for one to like for like So that means? Fruitloop seems to have misread the paper, which actually states "Variation (not like for like)" There was, a little while ago, talk by ACPO to amending the rules so that like for like's could be done without the need for a variation, perhaps the above wording suggests that it is in the pipeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 This is still being billed as a 'full cost recovery' exercise. The public are allegedly the beneficaries of the system so how come they don't have to pay anything toward it? Can we have full cost recovery of policing football matches? I don't have kids, can i have the portion of my tax that pays for schools back? Sorry to be the negative norman but the 'efficiency' increase they're talking about is for their benefit, not ours. i.e. Being able to pay you fee online, rather than them having to bank cheques, receiving application forms electronically instead of by paper/post (although hopefully this would reduce the number that get 'lost'). They aren't aiming to reduce turnaround times. The text of the document still refers to the decrease in variation fee as £5, rather than the £6 shown in the table and there are numerous references to firearm and shotgun 'licences', whatever they are. We are issued with certificates and there is a fundamental difference between them. Further, the report does not show how the 2001 (current) fees were arrived at, and whether they were reasonable or 'future proofed' at the time. Without that information it is not possible to ascertain whether the proposed figures are sound. That said, given the reduction in cost of a variation, and the number of variations i apply for, it will probably work out about the same, if not slightly less overall for me, which i suppose i can't whinge about.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 i doubt anyone can complain about the extra cost,a very small rise.so well done to all concerned.can we now take it that as part of these discussions the question of service levels have also been addressed.will the home office for example be reminding the various counties forces of the current firearms rules and that as this is a full cost rise.and no further pilot schemes will be allowed such as durham medical reports.also the time some forces take for both grants and renew.while I as everyone does welcome any increase being kept to a minimum I think it a false economy if the level of service shows no improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Clarke Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 like for like FAC variations will remain FOC. One-for-one will go down from £26 to £20 BASC believes this is a fair deal and should be supported in the online consultation. Police costs and procedures have been examined by BASC, BSSC, ACPO and the Home Office as part of a Home Office Fees Working Group. The initial police bid was for far higher fees. No-one can foresee what the next government will look like, or what they might do. This is the deal on the table. Fees have not been reviewed or changed since 2001. This will put in place a process of review to avoid long delays then calls for huge hikes in price. There is a short section in the consultation asking: The fees and costs for firearms licences administered by the police have to be reviewed annually. Do you have any comments on how the review process should be taken forward? BASC recommends: An annual inflation-linked review with a five year full review of police costs, procedures and service delivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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