rich1985 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Here we go. Company hand book and contract say security staff can preform a random search of a vehicle, locker etc. security staff are instructed they must obtain consent of the individual prior to a random security search. However the company's contract of employment requires all employees to submit to a search, refusal is a breach of contract. I was not asked or informed of a search. It's now Wednesday and this search was early hours Monday. What we thinking guys and gals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Here we go. Company hand book and contract say security staff can preform a random search of a vehicle, locker etc. security staff are instructed they must obtain consent of the individual prior to a random security search. However the company's contract of employment requires all employees to submit to a search, refusal is a breach of contract. I was not asked or informed of a search. It's now Wednesday and this search was early hours Monday. What we thinking guys and gals? Speak to a solicitor and get some proper legal advice, then take it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Have you a contract of employment as we have just been issues with new ones which coincidentally I noticed contains a very wide search condition. I suspect, having signed this, they could search my car at any time. I might be a little paranoid but noticed just a couple of weeks ago a notice saying there was increased theft from employers. I work for a car rental firm and it seems there have been car mats and handbooks going missing and appearing on EBay. They can issue you with any new contract they like, even one saying they had full rights on your firstborn. It doesn't matter. They can't unilaterally change the terms of a contract. Speak to a solicitor and get some proper legal advice, then take it! Agreed. Solicitor, and / or (if you have one) union rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 It would have to be in your contract and you would have to agree to it mate , i used to search cars for a security company and when you stopped a car you asked the driver if there was any problem ( they had to say no go ahead ) as it was in there contract you just opened the doors had a look with your torch open the boot and ask them to move anything you needed moved . if they got mouthy you just asked them to unload the boot at the side of the search area once they had done that you just said cheers im finished you can put it all back they where never gobby twice LOL . Cant see anybody just going into a car and searching it management would need to be in on it and be there ?. But why leave it unlocked anyway ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 This is in my work contract aswell so I just park on the public road ouside my work where they have no authority to touch my vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 You have heard from the PW massive , now seek advice from a proper employment solicitor . If you are dismissed for having the pheasants in your car then you may have a case to sue your employer . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 I would imagine the issue the company are concerned about is security/disease prevention and so on. A friend of mine works at a poultry unit and his employers are paranoid about minimising risk to their birds, to the point where visitors are not allowed in the building. They may be concerned that the pheasants may be carrying something and you may have increased the risk to their livestock. As for the car search, they do need permission to search your car but refusal can cause a problem. If you have your company handbook it should state company policy. Check carefully for any regulations concerning what you may or may not bring on site. If you have broken company policy in any way it might be better to apologise profusely before kicking up about the car search. Regards Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1985 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 I would imagine the issue the company are concerned about is security/disease prevention and so on.A friend of mine works at a poultry unit and his employers are paranoid about minimising risk to their birds, to the point where visitors are not allowed in the building. They may be concerned that the pheasants may be carrying something and you may have increased the risk to their livestock.As for the car search, they do need permission to search your car but refusal can cause a problem. If you have your company handbook it should state company policy. Check carefully for any regulations concerning what you may or may not bring on site.If you have broken company policy in any way it might be better to apologise profusely before kicking up about the car search.RegardsTim I have done this and just waiting to see what happen. I have made them aware regards what my hand book and contract says about car searches and that they have broken the rules as well as me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeredup Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 how did they know you had some them in the boot? and unless you were rubbing poultry with the dead pheasies (ooooh matron) i think their making a scape goat of you have you been caught bonking the gaffers daughter??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1985 Posted December 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Hi guys and gals. Quick update. Got a letter through the post today, quite a thick 1 I may add! Basically got all the statements from security etc ready for a meeting on Wednesday, yes Xmas eve to decide weather my actions will result in the loss of my job etc. now In the statements security admit entering and searching my car without me present and without my knowlege, etc etc. any thoughts? Regards rich1985 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) Take a solicitor to the meeting! That will really **** them up! My guess they didn't follow the protocol you broke the rules written warning to you and the security guard is my guess. Bio security is serious in the food chain. Edited December 22, 2014 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Give em hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Give it to them with a breif. Put them on the backfoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1985 Posted December 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I would love to take a solicitor with me but I cannot afford that, I am going to tell them what I think and how I feel, to be honest I feel it's abit of a Witch hunt, yes I understand bio security is important but weather them pheasants were in my can or not any pathogens or illness them birds had on them would also be in my car, there are hundreds of pheasants on site and where the farm is located is right on the coast so migratory geese are an issue I don't think a brace of dead pheasants in the boot of my car has any significance com paired to the wild goose and duck poo on the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I would love to take a solicitor with me but I cannot afford that You have to afford it...your job's on the line. Do you know any trade union officials, or anyone else who works in business with a knowledge of company contracts and procedures? You really should have someone with you if only as a witness to what is said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich1985 Posted December 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'm taking a witness with me yes, it's another employee that I work with. I have other work if the worst happens but that isn't the point I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovercoupe Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 In certain situations you have he right to have a friend/impartial employee sit in with you as a witness so if it gets messy you have someone there who can be witness to what goes on, just a thought. Would Citizens advise be any help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'm taking a witness with me yes, it's another employee that I work with. I have other work if the worst happens but that isn't the point I know. Good man. If you can record the conversation (obviously don't let them know) it will help you remember exactly what was said if things don't go to plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 I worked in a secure warehouse ,despatching mobile phones and laptops to certain banks , when the security wanted to search my car a manager +security guard and me being present. it was then my job to open the doors ,boot ,glove box , and any other compartments , the security guard had to ask my permission to get into my car , when finished i signed a search log as did the manager and security , no one was allowed to touch my car or locker without me being there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) Good man. If you can record the conversation (obviously don't let them know) it will help you remember exactly what was said if things don't go to plan. And if the pheasants found in your car fail to get you the sack, getting caught recording this meeting probably will! Take your colleague in as you are allowed to and make notes, if it goes further you will be issued with a copy of all the evidence. Sit quietly and listen carefully to what is said to you, do not go in all guns blazing and pointing out where they went wrong. Save that for the hearing if it gets to that stage. Good luck. Edited December 23, 2014 by TIGHTCHOKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 getting caught recording this meeting probably will! Good luck. No it won't. It's commonplace now for people to record disciplinary hearings and all employers should be aware that everything they say is most likely to be recorded. Anything else is pure naivety. The company has made a mistake and so have you. If it states in your contract that you're not allowed to keep birds in your car, then you're in breach-of-contract. Likewise, if they've conducted a search contrary to their own procedures, then so are they. The meeting they've called you to is a disciplinary hearing, because they're giving you the right to be accompanied at that hearing. If keeping poultry in your car is a disciplinary offence and comes under the heading of gross misconduct then even if they haven't followed their own procedures properly, you might have a technically winnable case however any compensation would be limited due to a thing known as the Polkey principle. (Look it up). If you've worked very long time and are seriously interested in keeping your job then I strongly suggest you talk to an employment solicitor. Yes it will cost you a couple of hundred quid, but it looks like the long knives are out and that they want to make an example of you. Over to you. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 No it won't. It's commonplace now for people to record disciplinary hearings and all employers should be aware that everything they say is most likely to be recorded. Anything else is pure naivety. The company has made a mistake and so have you. If it states in your contract that you're not allowed to keep birds in your car, then you're in breach-of-contract. Likewise, if they've conducted a search contrary to their own procedures, then so are they. The meeting they've called you to is a disciplinary hearing, because they're giving you the right to be accompanied at that hearing. If keeping poultry in your car is a disciplinary offence and comes under the heading of gross misconduct then even if they haven't followed their own procedures properly, you might have a technically winnable case however any compensation would be limited due to a thing known as the Polkey principle. (Look it up). If you've worked very long time and are seriously interested in keeping your job then I strongly suggest you talk to an employment solicitor. Yes it will cost you a couple of hundred quid, but it looks like the long knives are out and that they want to make an example of you. Over to you. Good luck. Please look back at Poontangs post that I replied to, it states; "If you can record the conversation (obviously don't let them know) it will help you remember exactly what was said if things don't go to plan". If you gain agreement from the management to record the conversation it will be valid, to do it secretly will invalidate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 If you gain agreement from the management to record the conversation it will be valid, to do it secretly will invalidate it. No. It. Won't. You are giving the OP dangerously incorrect advice, which I suspect you are not qualified to give. There is absolutely no way an employer can absolutely rely on covert recordings being held as inadmissible, if they are deemed germane to the case. Look here, for example. http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=89759d17-a3b2-4db5-8cad-f4b71931bf93 You're talking about the way things ought to be, I'm talking about the way things actually are. Google around it if you like. There was a recent case where a woman left her phone in her bag whilst she left the meeting room, recording the two members of management in the meeting. They made extremely disparaging comments about her in her absence that were recorded, didn't exactly go down very well. Red faces all round. In any event, if an employer puts their foot in it and says something way out of order on tape, and they know you have it on tape, then that can be excellent leverage for a very generous settlement agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I was the subject of a disciplinary meeting and they had to ask my permission to record it. It's a grey area, Maybe Mungler might know the legalities of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I am not Legally trained so anything I write is purely my own point of view and will keep it brief. 1. You breached your terms and conditions, not intentionally possibly but thats besides the point. 2. The Company breached eir own Protocol, in not having you present when the vehicle search was carried out- who is to say Security did not place those birds in your car etc?? So, it looks like both Parties are negligent in their duties-- be calm, listen, dont argue and above all, be reasonable. If it doesnt pan out to your liking then you can then seek Professional Legal advice, usually the first 30mins is free and the Solicitor will advise you there and then if there is a case to pursue! ( too late poss to get someone to come along tomorrow anyway) Finally cost, as a fellow PW member I would donate a tenner towards costs- not much but its a Community and we should stick together. Secondly, its bloody xmas, cant have this hanging over you and dont get me started on a Company who is willing to possible turf you out on xmas eve--- Bah Humbug Mr Scrooge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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