al4x Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Lots of extra things will decide whether he keeps or looses his ticket, if it's on view and he was in the pub for a long time it's not good. If he took the fore end with him and it was under a coat out of view and the van was in eyesight then he should be ok.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rst1990 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Home office firearms Consideration for certificate holders transporting firearms in vehicles 19.48. When carrying firearms in a vehicle, the following steps are considered to accord with the duty to ensure the safe custody of the items. 19.49. Any firearms should be hidden, preferably in the locked boot or other secured load carrying area of the vehicle. The vehicle should not be left unattended for long periods whenever possible. Vehicles which have to be left unattended for any length of time should ideally have an immobiliser and/or alarm fitted. 19.50. If the vehicle is left unattended for any reason, firearms should be concealed, preferably in the locked boot or other secured load carrying area of the vehicle. Where practicable, the bolt, magazine or other operating part should be separated from the firearm and either carried on the person or kept in a locked container, ideally secured to the vehicle, or concealed elsewhere. Where possible any ammunition should be stored separately from the firearm and this too should be concealed from view. The vehicle should be locked, and any immobiliser or alarm should be set. Where possible, the vehicle should be parked within the sight of the responsible person and in a position that would frustrate attempts to enter the vehicle unlawfully (e.g. with the boot close to a wall). 19.51. In the case of estates, hatchbacks and similar vehicles, and where the firearms are to be left unattended, the following recommendations should be considered: a) The responsible person should ensure that the lid or cover of the load carrying area is in place and /or that the firearms are so covered or concealed to prevent their identification; b) The firearms and ammunition should not be stored together. Where the boot or load carrying area is the most practical place, ammunition should be secured in an appropriate container, ideally secured to the vehicle; c) Wherever possible, the bolt, magazine or other operating part should be separated from the firearm and either carried on the person or kept in a locked container, ideally secured to the vehicle, or concealed elsewhere; d) If firearms are regularly carried in such a vehicle, provision should be made for securing the firearms to the vehicle’s structure. For example, security cases, cage, cable or clamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Home office firearms Consideration for certificate holders transporting firearms in vehicles 19.48. When carrying firearms in a vehicle, the following steps are considered to accord with the duty to ensure the safe custody of the items. 19.49. Any firearms should be hidden, preferably in the locked boot or other secured load carrying area of the vehicle. The vehicle should not be left unattended for long periods whenever possible. Vehicles which have to be left unattended for any length of time should ideally have an immobiliser and/or alarm fitted. 19.50. If the vehicle is left unattended for any reason, firearms should be concealed, preferably in the locked boot or other secured load carrying area of the vehicle. Where practicable, the bolt, magazine or other operating part should be separated from the firearm and either carried on the person or kept in a locked container, ideally secured to the vehicle, or concealed elsewhere. Where possible any ammunition should be stored separately from the firearm and this too should be concealed from view. The vehicle should be locked, and any immobiliser or alarm should be set. Where possible, the vehicle should be parked within the sight of the responsible person and in a position that would frustrate attempts to enter the vehicle unlawfully (e.g. with the boot close to a wall). 19.51. In the case of estates, hatchbacks and similar vehicles, and where the firearms are to be left unattended, the following recommendations should be considered: a) The responsible person should ensure that the lid or cover of the load carrying area is in place and /or that the firearms are so covered or concealed to prevent their identification; B) The firearms and ammunition should not be stored together. Where the boot or load carrying area is the most practical place, ammunition should be secured in an appropriate container, ideally secured to the vehicle; c) Wherever possible, the bolt, magazine or other operating part should be separated from the firearm and either carried on the person or kept in a locked container, ideally secured to the vehicle, or concealed elsewhere; d) If firearms are regularly carried in such a vehicle, provision should be made for securing the firearms to the vehicle’s structure. For example, security cases, cage, cable or clamp. Consideration yes - mandatory no. What is 'reasonable' is debatable - I dont know of any precedent in jurisprudence. If its down to the Chief Con to decide then its what he thinks on the day and we have plenty of examples of opinions in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangey Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Totally Irresponsible and shouldn't be a licence holder imo , throw the book at him im betting your a traffic warden,,and wear a blue peter badge,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Consideration yes - mandatory no. What is 'reasonable' is debatable - I dont know of any precedent in jurisprudence. If its down to the Chief Con to decide then its what he thinks on the day and we have plenty of examples of opinions in this thread. no not mandatory (yet) but if guns keep going missing from cars then it will be that way.all the things they ask you to consider are sensible and could save you losing your guns.but as many have said it is not mandatory so why should you put measures in place to protect your property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruity Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 im betting your a traffic warden,,and wear a blue peter badge,,, Ha no afraid not I'm a cabinet maker by trade and can just about remember blue Peter , but no badge sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 My gun(s) , like every other shooter I know, are often left locked in my vehicle, out of sight. I don't carry them into pubs, petrol stations, shops, or anywhere else I may go, when I am travelling to and from shooting. If I knew I would be away from my vehicle for a long time, I would take the guns home first. Its sensible to take reasonable precautions, but lets not get paranoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossberg-operator Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 I sometimes attend shoots with a 500-600km round trip. You have to stop for a pee and petrol. Can't take the gun into the petrol station...that would be a silly thing to do! If you are alone what are you suppose to do? You will leave the gun unattended... (Even out of sight, secured, etc). It is not practical no to. So, what, how to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) I regularly travel from Wales to London with guns in the car. If I am on my own I don't leave the car even at the services, I take a flask of coffee and a sandwich which I have in the car and pee in a bottle. I will get out and walk around but only in the vicinity of the car. If there is somebody with me we take it in turns to go to the loo or have a stretch, it works fine Have to say this is not entirely for gun security, there is also the constant risk of getting the car vandalised at these places. Came back once in a car park in Windsor to find a couple of blokes sitting on the roof having their photo taken. Edited January 30, 2015 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum 3 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 19.50. If the vehicle is left unattended for any reason, firearms should be concealed, preferably in the locked boot or other secured load carrying area of the vehicle. Where practicable, the bolt, magazine or other operating part should be separated from the firearm and either carried on the person or kept in a locked container, ideally secured to the vehicle, or concealed elsewhere. Where possible any ammunition should be stored separately from the firearm and this too should be concealed from view. The vehicle should be locked, and any immobiliser or alarm should be set. Where possible, the vehicle should be parked within the sight of the responsible person and in a position that would frustrate attempts to enter the vehicle unlawfully (e.g. with the boot close to a wall). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I regularly travel from Wales to London with guns in the car. If I am on my own I don't leave the car even at the services, I take a flask of coffee and a sandwich which I have in the car and pee in a bottle. I will get out and walk around but only in the vicinity of the car. If there is somebody with me we take it in turns to go to the loo or have a stretch, it works fine Have to say this is not entirely for gun security, there is also the constant risk of getting the car vandalised at these places. Came back once in a car park in Windsor to find a couple of blokes sitting on the roof having their photo taken. Really peeing in a bottle for the sake of two minutes into a loo that's less than 50 yds from you,that is high end paranoia. You must be unlucky in service stations to find two blokes sitting on your roof having their picture taken,never happened to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 It's rare I go out with my guns during Gypsy Fair week as I sometimes feel it's not worth the hassle, but when I do the vehicle is locked from inside during travelling to and from wherever it is I've gone shooting. It isn't unknown for some of the 'travelling community' to seize upon the opportunity of stopping and jumping into a slow travelling vehicle and demanding a lift somewhere. Many years ago this happened to a mate of mine, and on getting out they took his fags off the dash and his music cassettes. Our syndicate always has a pub lunch following the last shoot prior to christmas, and only three of the guns live locally to the village it is held around, so taking guns home isn't practical. It's never even occurred to any of us to ask the landlord if we can bring our guns into the pub, nor has anyone ever expressed a concern about leaving their guns locked in their vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Some people have gone completely mad with paranoia. Take reason precautions but frightened to leave your car, peeing in a bottle, seriously!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) You must be unlucky in service stations to find two blokes sitting on your roof having their picture taken,never happened to me. Its the car, I have a DB9 and while the car is fun the attention it attracts is not. It was two kids actually while their dad took a picture. Edited January 31, 2015 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Just wondered if anyone on here uses any extra security devices, while leaving there gun in a vehicle ie - Gun safe, padlock and chain/wire etc. Being in a van (any van) you can quite easily secure a gun to the inside which would make it very difficult to take on an impulse theft. Unless the full details are known you cannot really say/judge for sure what happened - Was he targeted, was it an opportunist theft, Do they go to the same pub on the same day each week/month after a shoot??? Aldi sell alarmed large shackle padlocks now and then. Very loud siren when disturbed or can be used as an ordinary lock by reversing the shackle. Shackle fits nicely around gun case handles and when used in conjunction with motorbike anti theft cable or chain can be attached to car or van. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 So we have established again that it is not law to fit added security to your car for when guns are left in it unattended. But if you visit ebay for under eight pounds you can fit a tie down rings to your car and get a cycle lock the wire type. This would stop the casual opportunist thief from taking your pride and joy.Also no embarrassing questions from the police and all the hassle that goes with it.for less than the cost of three pints you can give your several thousand pounds guns a little extra security. I wonder if the guy who lost his gun now wishes he had spent a few pounds on something like that or is he happier with all the official attention he is no doubt getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) So we have established again that it is not law to fit added security to your car for when guns are left in it unattended. But if you visit ebay for under eight pounds you can fit a tie down rings to your car and get a cycle lock the wire type. This would stop the casual opportunist thief from taking your pride and joy.Also no embarrassing questions from the police and all the hassle that goes with it.for less than the cost of three pints you can give your several thousand pounds guns a little extra security. I wonder if the guy who lost his gun now wishes he had spent a few pounds on something like that or is he happier with all the official attention he is no doubt getting. I think thats a very sensible post. Its not just the hassle, you could get prosecuted for losing your guns if the policeman dealing with the case was so inclined.You never know how these things might end up Edited January 31, 2015 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Some of the parania on here is amazing. No one knows the full story or wether he had removed the forend etc. At a basic level if i was travelling a long distance or leaving my motor with a gun in it i would break it up and if it wasnae practical to carry a piece i would hide it somewhere. Probably take longer to search the motor for parts than it would to break a cheap lock Vince i can slightly understand the attention u might get with a decent car (doesnae seem to happen with a scrapper ex British gas van thou) but how long do u think u'll keep ur ticket if someone catches u 'idecently eposing' urslf peeing in a bottle in a car park of the servies? James bond used to leave his motor all the time and it had rocket launchers in it. Most of these very cheap lock/chains would not really stop anyone but a rank amatuer, but then again it shows u have 'took reasonable measures'. I was going to buy an electric ammo/bolt safe but if u go on the net u can open them just by slapping the top. Locks generally only stop honest people Out of couristy how would u use a cabe to secure a slipped gun anyway? Fairenough if u had an airport hard case secured by a cable but hard to secure a slip unless u cut a hole in it to thread throu the trigger guard Mind many years ago in a local pub 6 or 8 guns got nicked from the hat stand at the front door to the pub, guns always just left the guns as they walked into the pub, all kept there licences but those were simplier times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Some of the parania on here is amazing. No one knows the full story or wether he had removed the forend etc. At a basic level if i was travelling a long distance or leaving my motor with a gun in it i would break it up and if it wasnae practical to carry a piece i would hide it somewhere. Probably take longer to search the motor for parts than it would to break a cheap lock Vince i can slightly understand the attention u might get with a decent car (doesnae seem to happen with a scrapper ex British gas van thou) but how long do u think u'll keep ur ticket if someone catches u 'idecently eposing' urslf peeing in a bottle in a car park of the servies? James bond used to leave his motor all the time and it had rocket launchers in it. Most of these very cheap lock/chains would not really stop anyone but a rank amatuer, but then again it shows u have 'took reasonable measures'. I was going to buy an electric ammo/bolt safe but if u go on the net u can open them just by slapping the top. Locks generally only stop honest people Out of couristy how would u use a cabe to secure a slipped gun anyway? Fairenough if u had an airport hard case secured by a cable but hard to secure a slip unless u cut a hole in it to thread throu the trigger guard Mind many years ago in a local pub 6 or 8 guns got nicked from the hat stand at the front door to the pub, guns always just left the guns as they walked into the pub, all kept there licences but those were simplier times Have you never been to a gunshop where the guns have a cable through the trigger guard.Also it is a deterant to the casual thief who does not carry a full tool kit around with him.in general most of these type of thieves want to be in and out in a few seconds with whatever is easiest to remove. I also remember the days of guns left in the entrance of pubs but that was before the current regulations so not really relevant now.other than it is probably part of the reason we have the rules we currently enjoy. Edited January 31, 2015 by bostonmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Have u never been in a gun shop where there is a pile of guns left in the corner or there is no cable throu the guns on the rack? Most of the local gunshops dinae bother with the cable now as so much hassle to get at the guns to try them.and most have a pile in the corner also. But equally irrelevant as were talking about leaving guns unattended, not when left with a full security system and monitored alarm So if u want to be out in a few seconds u will not have time to look in every nook and crany for forends or butts or barells? Doubt any theif would actually open a gun slip to check gun was complete. Some of those cheap locks would be broke in seconds anyway. I once bought a trigger lock, total waste of money as doubt it would take very long to get of ur gun esp if u had nicked a complete gun, would have all the time in the world to get it off later Just needs a bit of common sense appiled, if u travel with ur gun for long distances often it would be advisable to go further but if its a few times a year breaking it up is all that is really required. In my last pick up gun was always locked in a specai drawer usually with dogs above it, and when i get my next pick willl look at puting a cabinet in but i don't expect everyone to need to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 hands up all the people who have never left a gun in the car while they go in field with bins for a reccy?I have an estate car for shootin no where to hide guns only on the floor in the rear passenger well,so anyone having a close look in might see them,,so am I irresponsible cos I got nowhere to hide them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mick.j Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Have u never been in a gun shop where there is a pile of guns left in the corner or there is no cable throu the guns on the rack? Most of the local gunshops dinae bother with the cable now as so much hassle to get at the guns to try them.and most have a pile in the corner also. But equally irrelevant as were talking about leaving guns unattended, not when left with a full security system and monitored alarm So if u want to be out in a few seconds u will not have time to look in every nook and crany for forends or butts or barells? Doubt any theif would actually open a gun slip to check gun was complete. Some of those cheap locks would be broke in seconds anyway. I once bought a trigger lock, total waste of money as doubt it would take very long to get of ur gun esp if u had nicked a complete gun, would have all the time in the world to get it off later Just needs a bit of common sense appiled, if u travel with ur gun for long distances often it would be advisable to go further but if its a few times a year breaking it up is all that is really required. In my last pick up gun was always locked in a specai drawer usually with dogs above it, and when i get my next pick willl look at puting a cabinet in but i don't expect everyone to need to do that You can buy decent locks as well you know. Mine stands up in the van and can be secured top and bottom using a cable wrapped around the slip and two padlocks. It cannot be lifted as it only just fits in under the roofline, cannot be pulled away, you cannot cut the slip either to get the weapon out and is very secure. Going to a local shoot i just use a bungee strap the other deterrent are my two dogs - one would take your fingers off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 The paranoia on here is amazing. It surprises me how a lot of people on here want anything to do with guns. It appears that they a scared of their own shadow a lot of the time. It isn't clear what the full story is, as there does not appear to be a follow up. Loads of guns bring their guns into the pub and they are put in a corner away from the general public where we are having our drinks and meal. The landlord sure as hell isn't going to complain about it because he wouldn't want to lose the regular trade of the shoot meals. Up until now no member of the public has complained and if they did they can always go elsewhere. AND if someone did ring the police they wouldn’t do anything about it because where else would you put the guns, > back out into the vehicles. Don’t think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Just wondering what the motive is to steal a shotgun... I suspect many casual thieves are not the brightest sparks and only realise the consequences afterwards. It will probably be dumped in a bog somewhere once he braggs about it to his mates and they tell him what he is in for if he is caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 so now it is being paranoid if you try to secure your valuables.so does that mean the hardcore pw members do not lock their doors when they leave the house in case that is paranoia also.we have a gunshop somewhere that stores its guns in a heap and unsecured because it is to much trouble to keep unlocking them.probably leave the doors open when they are out in case anyone wants to browse the stock whilst they are not there.i have no interest in if the chap who had his gun stolen had any security in place or not only that I take the steps I feel happy with to protect my property but it seems I to am paranoid.or as my police force prefer to call it responsible.you are all free to decide your own steps as am i.well I am off again now to feed my paranoia and check that the equipment and animals are all secure and safe in the yard.atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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