Cranfield Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Its my experience that quite a few shooters have problems judging range, when a fox appears. The contention that its "only" a fox and if you hit it at all, it will crawl away and die, seems a sad reflection on the "sportsman" holding the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Its my experience that quite a few shooters have problems judging range, when a fox appears. The contention that its "only" a fox and if you hit it at all, it will crawl away and die, seems a sad reflection on the "sportsman" holding the gun. I know what you mean, but for true sportsmen (I'm sure most of us hold a shot if we think it's not going to result in a clean kill) a .410 will work. The guy has asked the question, if he didn't care he'd have done it to find out by now. It's not the ideal tool, but will do the job at close range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Its my experience that quite a few shooters have problems judging range, when a fox appears. The contention that its "only" a fox and if you hit it at all, it will crawl away and die, seems a sad reflection on the "sportsman" holding the gun. are you a sportsman when you're carrying out vermin control? its a close thing and depends on circumstances the same as you don't always know you're going to kill any winged bird you shoot at with a shotgun and how many pigeons get "pricked" and struggle off to die later on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusk2dawn Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Its my experience that quite a few shooters have problems judging range, when a fox appears. The contention that its "only" a fox and if you hit it at all, it will crawl away and die, seems a sad reflection on the "sportsman" holding the gun. I agree wholeheartedly, its a poor day when we shoot to cause any suffering and a lingering death all creatures should be respected, be they classed as vermin or game species, should you wound anything and are shooting without a dog then you must give up further activity and search until you have brought it to bag. Some of my farmers have said when I started on their land that although they were not anti shooting they did not want ever to see wounded foxes as they went about their daily chores. It would be easy to lose your shooting or worse turn a farmer against shooting alltogether and spoil it for those who follow in your area. D2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 3" magnum 18 gm BB`s = 45 pellets It would have to be very very close range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusk2dawn Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 3" magnum 18 gm BB`s = 45 pellets It would have to be very very close range. Its not the number off pellets, but the striking velocity that counts, just one or two in the right place. Even a 12g wouldnt kill if you shot it in the rear. The point is that the .410 is only effective at short range and should be veiwed as an opportunist weapon with regard to Fox. If in doubt dont shoot, bring the 12g tomorrow? :good:D2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Its my experience that quite a few shooters have problems judging range, when a fox appears. The contention that its "only" a fox and if you hit it at all, it will crawl away and die, seems a sad reflection on the "sportsman" holding the gun. are you a sportsman when you're carrying out vermin control? its a close thing and depends on circumstances the same as you don't always know you're going to kill any winged bird you shoot at with a shotgun and how many pigeons get "pricked" and struggle off to die later on? Whenever I am shooting, whether its vermin control or game shooting, I don't differentiate and I take every step to ensure that I kill cleanly what I am shooting at. Part of those steps, is to have the appropriate weapon and ammunition for the job in hand. I would not shoot at a fox with a .410, unless it was static in a trap, or injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Lets be honest guys the majority of us would shoot a fox with a 410 and the few that said they wouldnt can sleep soundly in bed safe in the knowledge that they are going to heaven.On the game shooting farms i go on i can just imagine the look on the keepers face if i said i had a chance to shoot a fox but didnt cos i only had a 410 with me!!BYE BYE shooting permision.I have shot them with a variety of guns shotgun,rifle,and even a pistol and i would probably use a catapult if i thought it would do any good.If your there to control vermin.............control vermin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Control pests by all means, but even pest controllers have a duty to do all they can to ensure the target meets a swift demise. Just popping some lead into it because "foxes don't carry lead well" ain't on, in my book. What's that supposed to mean anyway ? I'm guessing that it means they worry at the wound, which becomes infected, and they die in some considerable pain. If it means something else then please let me know. If I recall correctly, using a .410 at 35 yards was is the test the "middle way" group used to try to "prove" shooting foxes with shotguns was inhumane. I'd shoot a fox with a .410 only if I was as sure of a clean kill as with a 12 bore. That's got to be at very close range (10 yards for me) with as big a payload as is consistent with a tight pattern in a gun I know very well. If you're going to get into trouble for not "having a go" at a fox, then keep your gob shut and get him next time with something more suitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 as per title, if the opertunity arose would you shoot a fox with a .410 full ckoke using 3inch bb's ? If the fox is out of range, then there is no opertunity in my opinion. Same as with a 12g or even a .223, everything has an effective range that must be worked to and not stretched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Control pests by all means, but even pest controllers have a duty to do all they can to ensure the target meets a swift demise. Just popping some lead into it because "foxes don't carry lead well" ain't on, in my book. What's that supposed to mean anyway ? I'm guessing that it means they worry at the wound, which becomes infected, and they die in some considerable pain. If it means something else then please let me know. If I recall correctly, using a .410 at 35 yards was is the test the "middle way" group used to try to "prove" shooting foxes with shotguns was inhumane. I'd shoot a fox with a .410 only if I was as sure of a clean kill as with a 12 bore. That's got to be at very close range (10 yards for me) with as big a payload as is consistent with a tight pattern in a gun I know very well. If you're going to get into trouble for not "having a go" at a fox, then keep your gob shut and get him next time with something more suitable. Just to clarify something jimlad for starters i wouldnt go looking for a fox with a 410 and if i saw 1 that was 40 yards away i wouldnt even lift the gun.But i would shoot a fox with a 410 if it was close enough and i happened to have a 410 in my hand.I DONT just pop lead into things for the sake of it.I shot 26 days pheasant shooting last season and couldnt count the times i watched a bird fly past without raising my gun at it because i knew i could only hope to ***** it at best.The point is just flatly dismissing the use of a 410 for fox is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirky640 Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 in a word no ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Thank you for clarifying that Blackbart. I think with your post and that of njc we have a consensus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Please clarify: Is it a single barrel, a double barrel or a 3 shot semi / pump .410? With 3 goes at it, I reckon that's game on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusk2dawn Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 as per title, if the opertunity arose would you shoot a fox with a .410 full ckoke using 3inch bb's ? At a VERY quick count I make that 14 positive yes and 6 positive no, so there you have the benefit of the opinions of the country,s finest?? :( :( Seriously its no bad thing to have honest debate on these things as it provides guidance and shares experiences. D2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Make that 7 positive no's Would you shovel coal with a fork ?? Or cut your meat with a spoon ?? use the right tool for the job... what ever you are doing. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusk2dawn Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Make that 7 positive no's Would you shovel coal with a fork ?? Or cut your meat with a spoon ?? use the right tool for the job... what ever you are doing. FM What can we say :( D2D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ROBSON Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Remember what the question was!!! If the opertunity arose would you shoot a fox with a .410 full ckoke using 3inch bb's ? NOT "What is the best gun to shoot a fox with?" Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul in North Lincs. Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Remember what the question was!!! If the opertunity arose would you shoot a fox with a .410 full ckoke using 3inch bb's ? NOT "What is the best gun to shoot a fox with?" Mark. ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 I was going to stay out of this one, but decided to put some practical experiance into the thread. :( Would I shoot a fox with a .410.......Been there done it. When I was a young one, around 12 a fox got into the barn and into the chickens. I reached the barn with a .410 as he was coming out of the coop. Threw the gun up clicked off the saftey and pulled the trigger with the fox at.....and I went and measured this yesterday....18 yards. That fox did not know what hit him he went straight down and didn't even twitch So can the .410 be used as a vermin control gun in the correct circumstance? Definately yes. Get your gun out and pattern it on paper so you know what the pellets are doing and what number there are in the kill circle at what ranges. To see just how effective that gun and load is get some plastic 2 litre water bottles and fill them up. Place them on stands....upturned plastic construction pails work great........and shoot them at different ranges. This will give you a very realistic picture of what your gun can do at ranges and of patterns for differant loads. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desperado Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Please clarify: Is it a single barrel, a double barrel or a 3 shot semi / pump .410? With 3 goes at it, I reckon that's game on. Too right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybgood Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 I would, if at a resonable range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 as per title, if the opertunity arose would you shoot a fox with a .410 full ckoke using 3inch bb's ? ONLY IF the fox was very close and a head shot could be taken. Chances are, the fox would be wounded, and run off to die -slowly- if shot anywhere else or at long distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchie the white hunter Posted March 25, 2007 Report Share Posted March 25, 2007 Its my experience that quite a few shooters have problems judging range, when a fox appears. The contention that its "only" a fox and if you hit it at all, it will crawl away and die, seems a sad reflection on the "sportsman" holding the gun. I agree wholeheartedly, its a poor day when we shoot to cause any suffering and a lingering death all creatures should be respected, be they classed as vermin or game species, should you wound anything and are shooting without a dog then you must give up further activity and search until you have brought it to bag. Some of my farmers have said when I started on their land that although they were not anti shooting they did not want ever to see wounded foxes as they went about their daily chores. It would be easy to lose your shooting or worse turn a farmer against shooting alltogether and spoil it for those who follow in your area. D2D Your right there m8 but as long as it is in range then thers no problem remember a 410 has the same power as a 12 bore only less pellets Its my experience that quite a few shooters have problems judging range, when a fox appears. The contention that its "only" a fox and if you hit it at all, it will crawl away and die, seems a sad reflection on the "sportsman" holding the gun. are you a sportsman when you're carrying out vermin control? its a close thing and depends on circumstances the same as you don't always know you're going to kill any winged bird you shoot at with a shotgun and how many pigeons get "pricked" and struggle off to die later on? Whenever I am shooting, whether its vermin control or game shooting, I don't differentiate and I take every step to ensure that I kill cleanly what I am shooting at. Part of those steps, is to have the appropriate weapon and ammunition for the job in hand. I would not shoot at a fox with a .410, unless it was static in a trap, or injured. But how many woodes are out in the wheat or barley hit with a few pellets? so everything you shoot at you dont know its going to be a clean kill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosspot Posted March 26, 2007 Report Share Posted March 26, 2007 For Cliffs sake i take for the most part we are responsible people here would i shoot a fox with a .410 at 40yrds NO would i shoot a squeaked up one at 15yrds or if i kicked one up under my feet working some brambles with a 19gr 3 inch, most definately the markmanship and judgement of the shooter is paramount granted but lets put things into perspective, there are cicumstances where a .410 is more than capable of bowling over charlie and there are times when it is not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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