Is my Gun Dealer Expensive??

[Marksman1997]

So here's the story....... I seen a gun i liked and wanted to get it RFD so i sent my local dealer a message to see if he could and what he charged. His reply was "£50+Vat" I just thought this was a little expensive as all i think he really has to do is emmmm..... Nothing apart from store the gun and he has lots of room in his safe so that shouldn't be a problem! I may be wrong but i don't think he really has any expenses. I can understand why the dealer sending the gun would be that price as he would have to arrange postage and pay a decent amount for it but i don't think there would be any cost to receive? I can't help but feel that he has taken the huff with me as i didn't buy the gun off him and i am only 2 minutes away from his house. I always bought of him and always will but this gun is second hand from private seller in mint condition and half the price of new so what does he expect??? What should i do?

[reggiegun]

So here's the story....... I seen a gun i liked and wanted to get it RFD so i sent my local dealer a message to see if he could and what he charged. His reply was "£50+Vat" I just thought this was a little expensive as all i think he really has to do is emmmm..... Nothing apart from store the gun and he has lots of room in his safe so that shouldn't be a problem! I may be wrong but i don't think he really has any expenses. I can understand why the dealer sending the gun would be that price as he would have to arrange postage and pay a decent amount for it but i don't think there would be any cost to receive? I can't help but feel that he has taken the huff with me as i didn't buy the gun off him and i am only 2 minutes away from his house. I always bought of him and always will but this gun is second hand from private seller in mint condition and half the price of new so what does he expect??? What should i do?

Yea that is expensive, normally £20 to £25, some dealers do see their **** about RFD a gun to them. If the offer is that good, travel down, then you can actually see what you are buying.

[Marksman1997]

I'm in NI though and guns in England.

[reggiegun]

I'm in NI though and guns in England.

Never noticed that. Could be why the extra expense, not sure like.

Edited July 21, 2015 by reggiegun

[Marksman1997]

Never noticed that. Could be why the extra expense, not sure like.

Would that not be extra expense to post though?

Maybe he has a import charge or something?

[wymberley]

Is there any chance that there's a misunderstanding? You contacted your RFD to see if he could do it and perhaps he thought you meant do it all - ie, cover both ends. Probably not though as one would expect the seller to cover his end and in which case £50 is a bit rich.

[Alpha Mule]

My 2p:

Greedy so and so has taken the huff.

 

Any other RFD around?

£25 gets you a reasonable amount of petrol.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Alpha Mule

[welshwarrior]

It's high but his expense is his time with you and the other RFD, he's got to make a living, some rfds put the price up to encourage you to buy from them, especially if there's no other shop around, or to make he gun he's selling the same price.

[Big Al]

So here's the story....... I seen a gun i liked and wanted to get it RFD so i sent my local dealer a message to see if he could and what he charged. His reply was "£50+Vat" I just thought this was a little expensive as all i think he really has to do is emmmm..... Nothing apart from store the gun and he has lots of room in his safe so that shouldn't be a problem! I may be wrong but i don't think he really has any expenses. I can understand why the dealer sending the gun would be that price as he would have to arrange postage and pay a decent amount for it but i don't think there would be any cost to receive? I can't help but feel that he has taken the huff with me as i didn't buy the gun off him and i am only 2 minutes away from his house. I always bought of him and always will but this gun is second hand from private seller in mint condition and half the price of new so what does he expect??? What should i do?

Where are you in NI? I'm trying to figure out who the rfd is. There are some crooks here but also many good guys too.

[Paddy Galore!]

the nearest one to me charges ten percent. I don't go there

[millrace]

Last one we brought over RFD in England paid as part of deal the postage my local man said yea no problem (we had asked him but he CD not get what we wanted) no charge for receiving it or writing on, so we collected gun and bought slab of carts before we left didn't need them at time but he was fair with us so only decent to buy something from him......

[Marksman1997]

Where are you in NI? I'm trying to figure out who the rfd is. There are some crooks here but also many good guys too.

County Down. I don't really want to say his name but you can pm me if you want to know.

Last one we brought over RFD in England paid as part of deal the postage my local man said yea no problem (we had asked him but he CD not get what we wanted) no charge for receiving it or writing on, so we collected gun and bought slab of carts before we left didn't need them at time but he was fair with us so only decent to buy something from him......

Lucky you! Not county down by any chance?

[Teal]

In Down you have plenty of choice, there are a fair few dealers, just ring up some of the other ones or call in if you know them, and see what they would charge. £50+VAT is very steep.

[clayman]

Yes, while £25 or so is the norm for one end RFD handling, in reality that's a low cost for the service when compared with other professional and trade services. My Chiro chares £33 for 15 mins, Osteo £42 for 1/2hr. My accountant is £120 an hour and my solicitor £200 /hr + vat. My mechanic charges £60 /hr as do most trade services, ie appliance repair people etc.

 

For £25 an RFD has to maintain his RFD costs including the licence, storage security, alarm system monitoring, rent, rates, insurance, IT systems and shotgun register. He has to exchange RFD details with another, receive , unpack and check serial no's. Provide reporting to the National register etc. He has top deal with your initial enquiries, then liaise with you over the source of the gun, make contacts with the third party. Receive and notify you of arrival, then deal with you and your queries when you come to the shop to collect.

 

Realistically, £25 is a bargain.

 

We RFD's do it for this low cost because it brings you into our shop, and we hope we may make further sales to you.

 

If a shop charges £50 vat, it is still a realistic charge. After all, you have not bought the gun prom them and given them any profit. You have hunted around for a bargain elsewhere and then are unhappy that they want a pretty fair charge for their professional assistance in you getting the gun you want at the price you want elsewhere.

 

I can understand where an £50 RFD charger is coming from. He's being financially realistic that you wont be spending money in his shop, but picking up you bits and pieces for the gun off eBay at lower prices, so if you want his help with getting the gun, he wants a proper value for his time and professional service. You can't do an RFD receive and hand over in less than 1/2hr tied up overall, so a £50 fee including the indirect expenses is a very reasonable charge for a highly specialised and professional service.

 

If, on the other hand, you say, I want 1000 carts, a cleaning kit and a new slip for the gun - £250 worth, what will you bundle that in with the RFD transfer? You might see the total price mitigated quite a lot.

 

Jerry PY

RFD Sy 396

[Davyo]

Hartlepool friarage tackle & bait sells guns and is RDF,mates just collected a Rimmy that he bought off a lad on here,was charged £10 to receive.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Davyo

[Scully]

Yes, while £25 or so is the norm for one end RFD handling, in reality that's a low cost for the service when compared with other professional and trade services. My Chiro chares £33 for 15 mins, Osteo £42 for 1/2hr. My accountant is £120 an hour and my solicitor £200 /hr + vat. My mechanic charges £60 /hr as do most trade services, ie appliance repair people etc.

 

For £25 an RFD has to maintain his RFD costs including the licence, storage security, alarm system monitoring, rent, rates, insurance, IT systems and shotgun register. He has to exchange RFD details with another, receive , unpack and check serial no's. Provide reporting to the National register etc. He has top deal with your initial enquiries, then liaise with you over the source of the gun, make contacts with the third party. Receive and notify you of arrival, then deal with you and your queries when you come to the shop to collect.

 

Realistically, £25 is a bargain.

 

We RFD's do it for this low cost because it brings you into our shop, and we hope we may make further sales to you.

 

If a shop charges £50 vat, it is still a realistic charge. After all, you have not bought the gun prom them and given them any profit. You have hunted around for a bargain elsewhere and then are unhappy that they want a pretty fair charge for their professional assistance in you getting the gun you want at the price you want elsewhere.

 

I can understand where an £50 RFD charger is coming from. He's being financially realistic that you wont be spending money in his shop, but picking up you bits and pieces for the gun off eBay at lower prices, so if you want his help with getting the gun, he wants a proper value for his time and professional service. You can't do an RFD receive and hand over in less than 1/2hr tied up overall, so a £50 fee including the indirect expenses is a very reasonable charge for a highly specialised and professional service.

 

If, on the other hand, you say, I want 1000 carts, a cleaning kit and a new slip for the gun - £250 worth, what will you bundle that in with the RFD transfer? You might see the total price mitigated quite a lot.

 

Jerry PY

RFD Sy 396

Are you serious? 50 quid for receiving a package, unwrapping it and entering its details in a register? A 'highly specialised' and professional service? I've had many shotguns transferred RFD to RFD, and never been charged more than 25 quid at each end.

I don't mind anyone making a profit, but that's a rip off in my experience.

[clayman]

Yes, if my maths is right, £25 at each end is the same as a £50 fee for all in.

 

You can pay a single RFD £50 to deal with collection, carriage and reporting from the destination end, there is no requirement in law for two RFds to be involved, and single RFD can arrange collected carriage forward directly from the seller without a sending RFD; - or two RFd's one sending on behalf of the seller, and one receiving for the buyer - It adds up to the same.

 

Also, no-one is stating whether the fees they are paying include the carriage charges or not. RFD's commonly use either the BASC parcel Force contract at about £15-00 nett carriage costs, plus their packing time and materials, or the GTA TNT contract that a bit more, around £20-00.

 

A £10 fee will not include this, while a £50 probably does, and a £20 fee person needs to charge this on top unless they are doing all the admin on top, so that will still come to £35 to £45 gross, with yet another £20/£25 to pay at the other end.

 

Any-one who feels that £25 each end / £50 full service is unreasonable should consider what their charge rate for their own services is? Doubt you would see much of a living from charging at £25 a job In order to earn a reasonable living, few tradesmen can charge less than £40 / 50 hr for their professional services including premises, van. tools, storage , computers, insurance, rent, rates, boo keeping services etc etc. The general rule of charge rates is that a business needs to return 3x the basic salary the employee receives. So, if a gun retailer expects to earn £20 /hr, his charge rate should be £60 /hr.

 

Will the £10 RFD accept liability for the gun's stock broken in transit? Doubt it - while the £50 shop is likely correctly insured, will give you a loan gun while your stocks repaired, deal directly with their own insurers and not leave you with the hassle of trying to claim on your household goods away from home, or suing the carrier for negligence / losses. Is the £20 RFD a trade member of the GTA, and therefore applying a professional conduct code and having arbitration available? Or a BASC trade member with secure RFD transfer contracts ? There are many persons negligently sending guns via non-dangerous goods contracts. These have no compensation for loss or damage under most courier rules. Send a gun Parceforce at the Post-office counter and they will send it, but if its lost or damaged, no compensation. Will the £10 RFD cough up for your lost Beretta? The GTA / BASC special group contract schemes with Parcel Force and TNT will pay out for loss or damage, but you pay more for the service.

 

Higher quality services cost more for a reason. You pays your money and you get what you pay for.

 

JPY

[bruno22rf]

My RFD does it for free-at the end of the day its no skin off his nose and to say that he has to make a living is nonsensical-he isn't selling goods every second of the day so there are times when he is sitting around chatting-to do a minutes paperwork is nothing and the gesture would normally be rewarded by the customer buying ammo etc from the dealer-its a 2 way street-my last dealer charged me £25-thats why he is my "last" dealer.

[webber]

I feel that Clayman JPY has summed up the situation on behalf of the trade very reasonably.

 

I do a fair number of RFD to RFD transfers, usually receiving. I charge £25, but reduce it to £20 for regular customers.

 

Members who think that it's nothing more than a rubber stamp and a scribble on a license are seriously deluded.

The £50 fee mentioned is in reality a realistic charge.

 

From my experience only about 25% of people collecting RFD transfers spend anything in the shop whilst collecting.

 

At the end of the day the RFDs offer a service and make a charge for it.

People are free to shop around for the best deal they can find on a gun, as they are for the necessary service to collect and receive.

Argos click and collect it aint!

 

webber

[Scully]

Sorry Clayman, I can't accept any of that from either of your posts I'm afraid. I know of no tradesmen around here who charge anything like 60 quid an hour, skilled or otherwise, and respectfully suggest you change your garage if you're being charged that rate.

The courier will be liable for damage costs if anything is broken in transit, to suggest the RFD is responsible is daft.

Costs of sending the gun are met by the seller, the cost of receiving the gun is met by the buyer.

I wouldn't personally use any RFD charging ridiculous rates as those you have suggested, but would buy a slab of cartridges from the 25 quid RFD simply because they are something i always need and in the interests of good customer relationships.

Like I say I have done this many times and never been charged more than 25 quid; I would go elsewhere if any RFD asked me for 50 quid for the service.

[Redditch]

I was going to get a used one rfd to NI rfd, and my local (co. Londonderry) rfd wanted £100.00 LOL. So I binned that idea and bought a brand new gun instead, as it worked out cheaper

Edited July 25, 2015 by Redditch

[bostonmick]

As a business he has set his price for this service you are free to go elsewhere.I doubt that the thought of selling the odd slab of cartridges is going to turn his head.How much do you put on your labour and what overheads do you have.How would you react if your boss said you should do a couple of hours extra for free after all your already at work so no extra cost to you.

[Scully]

As a business he has set his price for this service you are free to go elsewhere.I doubt that the thought of selling the odd slab of cartridges is going to turn his head.How much do you put on your labour and what overheads do you have.How would you react if your boss said you should do a couple of hours extra for free after all your already at work so no extra cost to you.

As usual you've expressed a comment which is totally and ridiculously irrelevant to the topic in an attempt to prove a point.

He is of course free to charge whatever he wants, and as you suggest others are free to go elsewhere.

I am self employed and highly skilled; I have a vehicle to run and a studio plus mortgage to retain, but if I charged 50 quid an hour I wouldn't get much work I'm afraid.

You charge a reasonable rate dependant on what the market can stand and roughly in line with competition. If you have a skill which sets you apart from the norm then it's not too unreasonable to expect a relevant premium to be charged. Sending or receiving a package isn't a specialised skill no matter how much it is dressed up as something else.

The OP mentioned his RFD wants 50 quid plus VAT to receive a package, unwrap it and write it in his register; ridiculous amount in my opinion. I know of no one who would charge this amount.

You're probably right; selling a slab of cartridges probably isn't a great incentive, but on top of the reasonable amount charged for the service of receiving the package, it goes some way to acknowledge the gesture the RFD has made in agreeing to receive it and may ensure the customer comes back. Charging 50 quid for this service would ensure I didn't, and around here, word would get about.

[bostonmick]

As usual you've expressed a comment which is totally and ridiculously irrelevant to the topic in an attempt to prove a point.

He is of course free to charge whatever he wants, and as you suggest others are free to go elsewhere.

I am self employed and highly skilled; I have a vehicle to run and a studio plus mortgage to retain, but if I charged 50 quid an hour I wouldn't get much work I'm afraid.

You charge a reasonable rate dependant on what the market can stand and roughly in line with competition. If you have a skill which sets you apart from the norm then it's not too unreasonable to expect a relevant premium to be charged. Sending or receiving a package isn't a specialised skill no matter how much it is dressed up as something else.

The OP mentioned his RFD wants 50 quid plus VAT to receive a package, unwrap it and write it in his register; ridiculous amount in my opinion. I know of no one who would charge this amount.

You're probably right; selling a slab of cartridges probably isn't a great incentive, but on top of the reasonable amount charged for the service of receiving the package, it goes some way to acknowledge the gesture the RFD has made in agreeing to receive it and may ensure the customer comes back. Charging 50 quid for this service would ensure I didn't, and around here, word would get about.

If I was to say that beretta is an Italian company I feel that you would try to make me out to be wrong.The rfd in question has set his charge either take it or leave it simple business rule.As for skills well they play very little in what something is worth.I have no skills (on paper anyway) however I was able to retire at 55 due to mainly the fact that many wanted my services and were happy to pay.As for those who thought me to expensive.?

[Scully]

If I was to say that beretta is an Italian company I feel that you would try to make me out to be wrong.The rfd in question has set his charge either take it or leave it simple business rule.As for skills well they play very little in what something is worth.I have no skills (on paper anyway) however I was able to retire at 55 due to mainly the fact that many wanted my services and were happy to pay.As for those who thought me to expensive.?

Ye Gods , here you go again. What on earth has any of the above got to do with being charged 50 quid plus VAT to receive a firearm? Let's get way off topic (again) while you tell us how hard you've worked (again) and how successful you've been...again. Good for you Mick, but totally irrelevant.

Indeed Mick, take it or leave it, but while others have tried to justify it by dressing it up as a 'specialised service', I'll leave it.

How would you react if your boss said you should do a couple of hours extra for free after all your already at work so no extra cost to you.

This is the part of your initial post I underlined to ask how relevant it is to the topic, but it looks like I'll have to elaborate...again.

What on earth has your boss saying 'you should do a couple of hours extra for free after all your already at work so no extra cost to you' got to do with anything? The suggestion is as ridiculous as your normal ramblings. For a start no bosses I have ever worked for have ever suggested such a thing for obvious reasons, and secondly, of course there's an 'extra cost to you'; you'd be working for nowt for crying out loud!

And why a couple of hours? Are you seriously suggesting it takes a couple of hours to unwrap a package and transfer the details of that within, into a register? Plus, if that RFD's rates are based on 50 quid to do so, two hours to do so would be at least 100 quid plus VAT, not 50!

I wont be getting into another prolonged debate with you Mick; I spend time on here as I often find it a pleasant way to spend some time, whereas I find debating your eccentric ways anything but. I'm out.