Copper shot?

[lksopener]

Hi chaps,

 

Just flicking through my most recent edition of sporting shooter and noticed that some companies have launched shot that's copper coated.

 

The one that drew my eye was the hull grouse load.

 

I'm looking for something for partridge and 28 grams or 30 grams of 7's sounds good.

 

I was just curious about the copper element, claims are it holds a better pattern.

 

Any one used any?

[Guest cookoff013]

No.

But it is supposed to improve flow of shot through choke.

[lksopener]

Yeah I read the proposed benefit I just wasn't sure if it was a marketing gimmick as many of these things turn out to be.

[john12]

I have used copper coated steel for couple of years and get on well with it.

[henry931]

I bought a slab of Eley Classic Game (Paper Case) last year for game days.

 

They are eye wateringly expensive ~£100 a slab

 

They did seem to kill very well though, had quite a few good birds

 

I think the Hull loads are a 6.5, which should work well for partridge

[pestcontrol1]

I use copper coated steel and i would say it dose make a difference to the pattern as i have compared the same load but with normal steel and it did seem to hold a better pattern. not shot the coated lead thou but i know proper cartridges make some for the lads on the Grouse moors

[rovercoupe]

I bought a box of cheddites to try the other day and the lead is apparently gold plated??

[matone]

Used Churchill Hellfires in 30g Cu and they were a hard hitting cartridge ! Wouldn`t know if that was due to the cu plating though.

[motty]

I use copper coated steel and i would say it dose make a difference to the pattern as i have compared the same load but with normal steel and it did seem to hold a better pattern. not shot the coated lead thou but i know proper cartridges make some for the lads on the Grouse moors

I doubt that copper plated shot will make steel loads perform any better. In lead loads it should pattern better due to the protective coating giving less pellet deformation.

[rbrowning2]

I can see the logic with steel shot as the copper plating would stop it rusting together.

 

but as for a micron or two of a very soft malleable metal like copper stoping lead shot from deforming with 3tons plus pressure in a fibre wad like the hull grouse cartridge is very doubtful.

 

Also is copper not a poison to trees?

[figgy]

If it gives you confidence go for it. Can't see that it makes a bit of difference down range, as for better patterns. Pattern your choice of cartridge to your gun and chokes and go from there. Looking at the blurb on Hull Driven Grouse they are the same as non copper coated cartridges in the range and nothing out of the ordinary.

Eley Impax and Grand Prix will have accounted for more game than any other cartridge available today, no copper shot in them.

 

I'd like to see the hard data and patterns on the copper plated shot cartridges compared to the exact same cartridge without copper plated shot.

Edited September 28, 2015 by figgy

[Gordon R]

I bought a job lot of expensive clay shells, a couple of years ago. Some cost double what I paid for Eley Olypmics. Hard to notice any difference, although the cases / high brass looked good.

[Old farrier]

If it gives you confidence go for it. Can't see that it makes a bit of difference down range, as for better patterns. Pattern your choice of cartridge to your gun and chokes and go from there. Looking at the blurb on Hull Driven Grouse they are the same as non copper coated cartridges in the range and nothing out of the ordinary.

 

Riley Impax and Grand Prix will have accounted for more game than any other cartridge available today, no copper shot in them.

 

I'd like to see the hard data and patterns on the copper plated shot cartridges compared to the exact same cartridge without copper plated shot.

Are you sure eley haven't used copper plates shot in there Impax / Grand Prix cartridges 😚

[motty]

I can see the logic with steel shot as the copper plating would stop it rusting together.

 

but as for a micron or two of a very soft malleable metal like copper stoping lead shot from deforming with 3tons plus pressure in a fibre wad like the hull grouse cartridge is very doubtful.

 

Also is copper not a poison to trees?

Steel shot would take many years to rust together, if at all. Check out Tom Roster's findings on jacketed lead loads. They do not deform as much.

[muncher]

Few years ago I read an article by an American cartridge tester ,he patterned thousands of loads with all types of steel shot ,zinc plated ,copper plated normal etc and his findings found that it made absolutely no difference what type of steel shot its just a gimmick to sell more cartridges, in steel anyway.

[rbrowning2]

Steel shot would take many years to rust together, if at all. Check out Tom Roster's findings on jacketed lead loads. They do not deform as much.

Do you mean the paragraph where is states:

"Copper-wash lead pellets in this day and age tend to be cosmetic creatures only."

http://www.shotgunlife.com/shotguns/tom-roster/understanding-lead-shot-quality-part-2.html

 

If not please post a link.

 

As a reloader I occasional get given an "old" lead shot cartridge that failed to fire, when the shot is removed the top layer of pellets is

normally badly oxide so one must assume the same oxidation must occur in steel shot cartridges which must make it possible for rust to occur. Anybody ever removed shot from an "old" steel cartridge? Would be interesting to see what is observed.

[Old farrier]

Do you mean the paragraph where is states:

"Copper-wash lead pellets in this day and age tend to be cosmetic creatures only."

http://www.shotgunlife.com/shotguns/tom-roster/understanding-lead-shot-quality-part-2.html

 

If not please post a link.

 

As a reloader I occasional get given an "old" lead shot cartridge that failed to fire, when the shot is removed the top layer of pellets is

normally badly oxide so one must assume the same oxidation must occur in steel shot cartridges which must make it possible for rust to occur. Anybody ever removed shot from an "old" steel cartridge? Would be interesting to see what is observed.

Not yet but have put a few in the damp shed to see and have opened a few of last years to check them we will see what happens 😋

Did open a paper case Grand Prix 20 bore copper coated shot 😂

I think they experiment with copper coating / plating was to prevent the lead from fusing together on high pressure loads until they found higher antimony levels did a better job

Just a thought 😊

All the best

Of

[pestcontrol1]

I doubt that copper plated shot will make steel loads perform any better. In lead loads it should pattern better due to the protective coating giving less pellet deformation.

The patterns that i shot last year said different i will see if i have chance to shoot a couple again and put up a pic

 

Steel shot would take many years to rust together, if at all. Check out Tom Roster's findings on jacketed lead loads. They do not deform as much.

Arrrrr not as long as you may think to go rusty. I had a problem with some cartridges last season so i thought what the hell i will just cut them up and remake them i had plenty of cases um cut the fist one open shot was rusty not all but most so cut the rest open and it was all the same. They had never been out the house from been loaded and had a cork over shot card and crimped. They had been loaded for two seasons due to me been ill whether it was just **** steel shot i don"t know

[motty]

Do you mean the paragraph where is states:

"Copper-wash lead pellets in this day and age tend to be cosmetic creatures only."

http://www.shotgunlife.com/shotguns/tom-roster/understanding-lead-shot-quality-part-2.html

 

If not please post a link.

 

As a reloader I occasional get given an "old" lead shot cartridge that failed to fire, when the shot is removed the top layer of pellets is

normally badly oxide so one must assume the same oxidation must occur in steel shot cartridges which must make it possible for rust to occur. Anybody ever removed shot from an "old" steel cartridge? Would be interesting to see what is observed.

That is the very article. As you will have read, the copper wash is not the same as proper copper coating via electrolysis.

I have removed steel shot from previously submerged shells. Some very minimal rusting has been observed.

[rbrowning2]

Of,

Have to agree was always told the copper or nickel plating was used to stop the lead pellets "welding" together but the introduction of plastic wads solver the problem and modern fibre wadding also significantly reduce the problem.

 

Perhaps it would be very good if like the velocity post some kind member could do some pattern testing with plated vs non-plated shot.

 

Rb2

[rbrowning2]

That is the very article. As you will have read, the copper wash is not the same as proper copper coating via electrolysis.

I have removed steel shot from previously submerged shells. Some very minimal rusting has been observed.

I guess it comes down to cost and quality of plating, when does wash become plating?

 

The process for a large lot of small parts ie shot is electrolysis and done by technique known as Barrel plating the fastener industry use it a lot. Many years ago as a student earned some pocket money at a plating firm using the process.

[figgy]

If they used copper coating to stop the lead being welded together on firing, copper is a good conductor of heat and the pressures and heat would surly be enough to to burst the coating as it travels up the barrel.

 

If it works then great all shot should be copper plated.

 

Just look at some of the shapes in non toxic pellets and it makes little or no difference to the patterns.

 

Interesting thread and hope some data turns up.

[wymberley]

Lord Walsingham shot 1070 grouse in a single day on 30 August 1888. The Marquess of Ripon shot 556,000 game birds in his lifetime. Did they use copper washed shot?

[Old farrier]

Lord Walsingham shot 1070 grouse in a single day on 30 August 1888. The Marquess of Ripon shot 556,000 game birds in his lifetime. Did they use copper washed shot?

Did they use Niro powder plastic cases plastic wads and heavily choked guns

Shot has been coated and messed with through the evolution of the cartridge

Harder shot square shot plated and coated with many things also many materials other than lead weather it makes much difference I'm not sure

[wymberley]

Did they use Niro powder plastic cases plastic wads and heavily choked guns

Shot has been coated and messed with through the evolution of the cartridge

Harder shot square shot plated and coated with many things also many materials other than lead weather it makes much difference I'm not sure

My point exactly. There have been many beneficial advances in our sport but a well rounded and consistently sized lead pellet has yet to be improved upon - certainly in what can be termed as economically viable.